IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #35

[carbuff]

Count me out.

A sex crime means a predator, and a predator means the community is warned.

LE have issued ZERO warnings or BOLOs.

Well, no, that's not my experience. There's never been a warning like that around here, not even after obvious sex crimes and not even when we knew there was a serial killer around. If they say anything, they say "no reason to think the community is in danger," or something like that. Even with the serial killer, the most they'd say was "women should always be careful to..." etc. etc. etc. but nothing specific to the situation. It's just not something LE does.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Well, no, that's not my experience. There's never been a warning like that around here, not even after obvious sex crimes and not even when we knew there was a serial killer around. If they say anything, they say "no reason to think the community is in danger," or something like that. Even with the serial killer, the most they'd say was "women should always be careful to..." etc. etc. etc. but nothing specific to the situation. It's just not something LE does.

Yes, they do.

See Jessica Ridgeway.

We haven't even had a generic "watch your kids" statement in this case.

Couple that with the apparent staging, and it seems LE are smelling a rat.

 

[carbuff]

Yes, they do.

See Jessica Ridgeway.

We haven't even had a generic "watch your kids" statement in this case.

Couple that with the apparent staging, and it seems LE are smelling a rat.

I stand corrected. I should have said "Once in a blue moon, when there's an obvious lunatic on the loose, LE will issue that kind of warning."

Just joking. I'm sure there are exceptions. I just meant that it's not the normal procedure and I'm not in the least surprised there's been no warning. I don't think we can conclude anything about the investigation based on that behavior.

 

[tlcya]

I have seen LE issue lots of

"isolated incident" "no cause for alarm" type statements after a child is abducted/murdered.

Turns out later there was cause for concern and the only thing that made it an isolated incident is that the perp was eventually apprehended - otherwise it he would have eventually killed again.

Police say they are talking to the family and at this time, do not consider anyone in the family as a suspect. Police also say they believe this is an isolated incident . . . http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2013/07/03/...rl-identified-as-6-year-old-alanna-gallagher/

I tend to agree with carbuff. Even when it is obvious there is cause for concern (ie dead child or children and no person in custody) LE tends to issue such statements as "we believe this is an Isolated Incident" "the public need not be alarmed." "Obviously the public should take normal safety precautions" etc etc etc.

 

[watcher9]

I found the girls back on the 3rd page. I don't often post in this forum, but I do read it on a daily basis. I have really believed that LE has leads in this case and is just waiting to put the bow on the package. Now, I'm not so sure. I'm going to grab a blanket because I'm thinking we have a cold case.
RIP Elizabeth and Lyric. You have touched the heart of this southern mother.

Thank you.
I'm going to grab a blanket too!

 

[nikb]

<snipped for space> Even when it is obvious there is cause for concern (ie dead child or children and no person in custody) LE tends to issue such statements as "we believe this is an Isolated Incident" "the public need not be alarmed." "Obviously the public should take normal safety precautions" etc etc etc.

Agreed. I'm nowhere near Elizabeth and Lyric as I'm in Northern CA but recently we've had a number of rapes (adults, not kids) in a specific area. They finally issued a more alarming sounding warning and mugshots after the third violent rape not far from me. THIRD rape! When it finally came out all I could think was why wasn't this released much sooner? Is it to save face, or...? You can only take so many safety precautions IMO unless you're going to lock yourself in a bulletproof bubble and never leave, so it's helpful to know who to look out for if there's a known dangerous person.

It upsets me that this info isn't released earlier. For example if the girls KNEW that someone familiar to them was dangerous, would they have behaved differently? I'm not blaming them in the slightest, just thinking of possible what-if scenarios that might have kept them alive... or helped future potential victims.

 

[otto]

It's interesting that this is one of the few cases of missing/deceased girls in this age range where the general assumption isn't a sex crime.

I'm starting to think based on the statistical likelihood that this indeed was a sex crime, kidnapping, rape and immediate murder.

The fact that the parents have a criminal record has merely been a distraction.

Based on the other cases I'm thinking the girls were dead before the police were notified.

JMO, MOO, all that

and of course, I could be completely wrong

Where does the information come from that this is not a sex crime?

 

[alliemay]

I think her second paragraph states that she thinks it is a sex crime.

 

[otto]

I think her second paragraph states that she thinks it is a sex crime.

I'm asking why anyone would think that the abduction and murder of two young girls is anything other than a sex crime. Everything we know about the case, including warnings from police to keep an eye on children and the family's sudden support of the fight against sex offenders, suggests that this is a sex crime.

 

[alliemay]

Yes I agree, I have felt all along that this was a sex crime. But I do think there could be other reasons, maybe in other cases, but for this one I think sex crime.

 

[Squeeze]

So, having binge-watched the entire Breaking Bad series (well, over the course of a couple of months), I have to agree that there could, in fact, be a distinct possibility, even though the link was downplayed in the beginning by some family members. Like anything else where money and power are involved, such acts as kidnapping and murder could easily play into the control aspect. I've never heard of any local "Heisenburg" type kingpins, but I don't run in those circles, so I wouldn't know.

The show also demonstrates how seemingly unrelated events can have a connection, without obvious DNA evidence.

 

[carbuff]

I'm asking why anyone would think that the abduction and murder of two young girls is anything other than a sex crime. Everything we know about the case, including warnings from police to keep an eye on children and the family's sudden support of the fight against sex offenders, suggests that this is a sex crime.

Could be a thrill kill.

 

[iamnotagolem]

Where does the information come from that this is not a sex crime?

There is no information from LE saying it's not a sex crime, I was just referring to the popular opinion here at web sleuths.

 

[otto]

There is no information from LE saying it's not a sex crime, I was just referring to the popular opinion here at web sleuths.

Thanks. I missed that completely. I've followed the case from the beginning and have always held the strong belief that these children were abducted by a sexual predator. In response to assumptions that children missing from poor, drug addicts are not victims of sexual predators, I referenced the case of Victoria Stafford. In that case, many people made a huge mistake in assuming that if the child of a drug addict is abducted, the drug addict must be responsible. I don't think child predators care whether the parents are drug addicts or doctors.

The fact that, after Elizabeth's body was found, her parents very publicly started supporting harsher penalties for sexual predators strongly suggests that they believe this was a sexually motivated abduction and murder.

 

[tlcya]

I'm asking why anyone would think that the abduction and murder of two young girls is anything other than a sex crime. Everything we know about the case, including warnings from police to keep an eye on children and the family's sudden support of the fight against sex offenders, suggests that this is a sex crime.

while many of us feel it is probable there was a sex motivation, there are those who remain very strong in their feeling that there was familial or drug associate involvement and therefore no sexual motivation. I believe the original poster was speaking to that stance.

 

[otto]

while many of us feel it is probable there was a sex motivation, there are those who remain very strong in their feeling that there was familial or drug associate involvement and therefore no sexual motivation. I believe the original poster was speaking to that stance.

Police have ruled out the family, so we know that no one in the family abducted and murdered their own child. It's possible that whomever is responsible is a drug addict, but that doesn't mean it is not a sexually motived murder.

 

[threecrazykids]

I'm asking why anyone would think that the abduction and murder of two young girls is anything other than a sex crime. Everything we know about the case, including warnings from police to keep an eye on children and the family's sudden support of the fight against sex offenders, suggests that this is a sex crime.

I am not going to state my opinion one way or another as to whether or not I think this is a sex crime, but there is absolutely ZERO evidence (so far) that indicates that sex was the motive. I'm not saying it's NOT, I'm saying there is absolutely no EVIDENCE released to date that indicates as much.

One can say "Isn't it OBVIOUS it's a sex crime? Why ELSE would two girls end be abducted and found murdered 5 months later?"

Take the TWO girls piece of it out of the picture in this crime, separate the families and there are definitely a myriad of motives either one of these girls could have been murdered - together or separate at any given time.

I think the "two girls/cousins" piece could either strengthen the sex crime opinion OR weaken the likelihood based on each persons interpretation of the info that has been released by LE.

There is no more evidence that has been released in this case to believe sex was any more likely a motive than a drug aspect, personal gain, or a thrill kill for that matter that didn't involve sex from the information we've been given.

Again, I'm not arguing one theory is more "right" than another, but to say that it's blatantly OBVIOUS that it's a sex crime would be based likely on statistics and interpretations of evidence rather than any form of evidence indicating that sex crime WAS committed.

JMO of how the same evidence can be interpreted in many different ways. :seeya:

 

[alliemay]

I agree with you, just as it's not obvious that the bikes were staged. It's seems like the only things obvious here is that they did not drown in the lake, and even though they thought the girls were alive they in fact were not. I wish there was more facts for LE to work with, or enough to make an arrest.

 

[nikb]

I'm asking why anyone would think that the abduction and murder of two young girls is anything other than a sex crime. Everything we know about the case, including warnings from police to keep an eye on children and the family's sudden support of the fight against sex offenders, suggests that this is a sex crime.

BBM: this is the thing that makes me think it might've been a sex crime. Before that I thought it was likely drug related, although I don't have a strong feeling either way. Plus of course there's that other possibility that it was random. I wish we had more information, or better yet a suspect in prison.

 

[nikb]

I agree with you, just as it's not obvious that the bikes were staged. It's seems like the only things obvious here is that they did not drown in the lake, and even though they thought the girls were alive they in fact were not. I wish there was more facts for LE to work with, or enough to make an arrest.

I really hope there are more facts for LE to work with, and we just don't know about them. Although that definitely begs the question, why no arrest(s) yet?