IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #36

[tlcya]

It was teh addy to a search result within WS. I keep forgetting it won't let me link such results. It was just a link to all the threads about this case.

 

[otto]

back in the threads there are lots of images. Including the google images of the area Aunt Tammy describes, with the driveway and the turnaround type area. If I remember rightly it was some sort of public works or park district small brick building and the drive she was describing was the access road to get back to it. Looking for that image now. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/search.php?searchid=2020842

I thought that originally came from the grandmother ... the grandmother seemed to be familiar with the area as a party spot prior to the construction of the highway. There's a private road onto private property where the water treatment plant shed is located. In those trees, I recall that dogs were looking for evidence. One of the moms said that a dog alerted, but I don't remember that FBI re-stated that information.

This is the area where the dog allegedly alerted:





When it was a party spot:



After the highway was built:

 

[NWLady]

Possibly this is the video you were looking for...
http://video.foxnews.com/v/17484777...ollins-plead-for-their-return/?#sp=show-clips

Keep in mind, it is family (Aunt Tammy) talking about the dog scents, but to my knowledge LE did not and/or has not confirmed what she is saying.

 

[watcher9]

Thanks so much for bringing the maps forward. It helps so much to see the area in "black and white".
I remember these maps from before. It shows Maiden Lane which was an extension of Arbutus Rd. I had forgotten the name.

I now believe that Elizabeth would bike down Evans until the stop sign at Gilbert Dr where she would turn around maybe in the parking lot of the police/fire department to go back and that was as far as she had ever gone. In her mind she would be following her parents instructions to just bike to the stop sign and back. To her it was one long block. Go to the stop sign and come back. She never knew that the road would actually take her all the way to the lake.

On the red map, it shows an empty area in the upper right quadrant of the intersection of Evans and Gilbert Dr which is the police/fire department now. I suspect that the Carpenters lived at the first house on Lake Ave across Gilbert Dr from the p/f dept where they would see Elizabeth turning around.

Also on the red map, it shows on the far right the Evansdale Bike Trail that keeps getting talked about. As you can see, it actually crosses Arbutus and continues on. This was where the spotted white truck was parked. I speculate that the girls went down Evans Rd, stopped at Fareway Store for directions and came down to Gilbert where there was a sign on the corner pointing to the Evansdale Bike Trail. They turned on to Gilbert Road, going past the Carpenters house (for the first time) and went on to the official trail where they came out on Arbutus where the white truck was parked. They biked on Arbutus to Maiden Lane and went to the gate where they got off their bikes.

On the green map, it shows the drainage gate where the bikes and purse were found and it labels the sewer pump building which is on Maiden Lane. it also shows a yellow bike trail continuing down Evans going past Maiden Lane. I don't know if this was an old bike trail before the official bike trail was built but this is not part of the trail that we are talking about.

 

[Adair88]

Snipped by me

On the green map, it shows the drainage gate where the bikes and purse were found and it labels the sewer pump building which is on Maiden Lane. it also shows a yellow bike trail continuing down Evans going past Maiden Lane. I don't know if this was an old bike trail before the official bike trail was built but this is not part of the trail that we are talking about.

Correct. This little yellow line is not part of the bike path. There is a grassy area as seen in the maid, but no path there. The bike trail runs parallel to Arbutus, behind the houses, and does not connect with the road in that area.

Sent from my KFTHWI using Tapatalk

 

[threecrazykids]

Here is another link - not sure if this has been posted, but Tammy is referring to the grassy area as well:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/19/ng.01.html

SBM:

BROUSSEAU: OK. So then we watched the investigators put the crime scene tape up. They were down there for a very long time. I would say approximately three hours, maybe more, you know, doing their investigation.

And we went back around to the southeast side of the lake, where you can actually -- there is an old, like, sewer building. There`s an old garage that sits on this chunk of land that you can actually very easily go down a few blocks and access the back of the lake area from -- from that point you can.

And so, you know, my immediate gut feelings -- you know, because in just this 10-mile radius, there is 200 pedophiles that live in this 10-mile radius. And I`ve -- since the Johnny Gosch case has happened -- I have a 24-year-old daughter -- I have been -- that is every parent`s worst nightmare.

Snipped for space:

Anyway -- and it was a very hot, lazy Friday. There wasn`t many people out. I kind of looked around to see because after where the bikes were dropped on the bike trail, there`s about 400 yards of forest, and then that grassy area where I`m telling you that somebody could easily access the bike trail from, park their car along that grassy forest and got out and had a knife or whatever it was, and said to the girls, you know, Get in this vehicle right now or it`s over with for you.


But the comment I find a bit odd is this one:
But what I`m saying is, so I -- after the tape came down, I went back in that area and I started doing my own investigation, and looking around and seeing what I could see. And I could so feel that somebody had come down here, had been watching the girls for quite some time -- whether it even started as they left Heather and Mom`s place -- they`d been following them and watching them, seen them come down here.

Heather and Mom's? Heather and Wylma don't live in the same house...Heather lives in Evansdale, Wylma in Waterloo.

Granted, I think Tammy felt she was being helpful since she apparently wasn't even there until later, after they got the call to come back.

And the story/timeline changed ever so slightly or had discrepancies every single time it was told by a different person.

 

[carbuff]

Now I remember why the person I can't talk about was at the top of my list...

 

[Wondergirl]

Link to Scanner Thread #1 in The Parking Lot in the basement here at WS.

Must be a member of WS to read.

Police Scanner transcriptions by WS members following it live at the time.

Just remember, we can't post info there, here. However, I highly recommend reviewing the first 1 or 2 scanner threads, as you will get ALOT of info that has not been reported on.

As has been mentioned, it is subject to interpretation of all involved - SAR, scanner operators, scanner transcribers.

There are currently 10 Scanner Threads at WS for Lyric and Elizabeth's case. If you want to discuss what has been posted there, then go to most recent scanner thread and post away.

July 2012 - 1st Scanner Thread:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ook-10-Evansdale-13-July-2012&highlight=lyric

Current Scanner Thread to Post on:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...READ-Elizabeth-Collins-amp-Lyric-Cook-1/page8

 

[Wondergirl]

Hollye's Case Map:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewe...204844,0.308647&mid=zz5anBtG3nsg.kopoOIa-8iVQ

 

[Wondergirl]

View attachment 69451

Official sectioning off the lake called his boss to ask if he could tell us why, boss said to wait until 4 pm press con. #evansdalesearch

July 17, 2012 11:38 a.m.


http://wcfcourier.com/twitter-update...9bb2963f4.html

 

[Wondergirl]

Well, I have to apologize.

It seems as if the SAR K-9 dog hit transcriptions have been deleted from the thread as I had mentioned.

I listened live at the time, so, maybe listening to scanner archives if available, are the only way to get them. Nevertheless, the threads in the basement have alot of info, and are well worth the read, by anyone deeply interested in reviewing the case.

JMO

 

[otto]

Correct. This little yellow line is not part of the bike path. There is a grassy area as seen in the maid, but no path there. The bike trail runs parallel to Arbutus, behind the houses, and does not connect with the road in that area.

Sent from my KFTHWI using Tapatalk

This map shows the bike trail.



This is an aerial of Maiden Lane



The smaller photos were taken by a local that posted here

 

[nikb]

Here is another link - not sure if this has been posted, but Tammy is referring to the grassy area as well:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/19/ng.01.html

SBM:

BROUSSEAU: OK. So then we watched the investigators put the crime scene tape up. They were down there for a very long time. I would say approximately three hours, maybe more, you know, doing their investigation.

And we went back around to the southeast side of the lake, where you can actually -- there is an old, like, sewer building. There`s an old garage that sits on this chunk of land that you can actually very easily go down a few blocks and access the back of the lake area from -- from that point you can.

And so, you know, my immediate gut feelings -- you know, because in just this 10-mile radius, there is 200 pedophiles that live in this 10-mile radius. And I`ve -- since the Johnny Gosch case has happened -- I have a 24-year-old daughter -- I have been -- that is every parent`s worst nightmare.

Snipped for space:

Anyway -- and it was a very hot, lazy Friday. There wasn`t many people out. I kind of looked around to see because after where the bikes were dropped on the bike trail, there`s about 400 yards of forest, and then that grassy area where I`m telling you that somebody could easily access the bike trail from, park their car along that grassy forest and got out and had a knife or whatever it was, and said to the girls, you know, Get in this vehicle right now or it`s over with for you.


But the comment I find a bit odd is this one:
But what I`m saying is, so I -- after the tape came down, I went back in that area and I started doing my own investigation, and looking around and seeing what I could see. And I could so feel that somebody had come down here, had been watching the girls for quite some time -- whether it even started as they left Heather and Mom`s place -- they`d been following them and watching them, seen them come down here.

<snipped for space>

Thank you thank you! I knew it was out there somewhere. I'm not implicating Aunt T. but I think she maybe has more "street knowledge" than some of the other people around her. I mean she thought out the bike trail, access road, figured they had a knife, felt the girls were followed, knew the girls had likely been to the lake, taught them to protect themselves against "stranger danger," etc. I thought maybe she read a lot into the dog scent hits, too. I wonder if she knows who did this, even if she doesn't know she knows.

 

[Ommmm]

wow, I did not recall that the lake draining was due to the dogs and their finding scent at the lake.

IIRC... I remember Mr Abben talking about how it was necessary to drain the lake and rule out an accident before it would be regarded as a potential abduction, and once that was established, LE could seek help from outside agencies.

 

[nikb]

IIRC... I remember Mr Abben talking about how it was necessary to drain the lake and rule out an accident before it would be regarded as a potential abduction, and once that was established, LE could seek help from outside agencies.

I remember thinking that too but even way back then I was thinking it's not exactly normal to assume you can just drain a lake. I live around a lot of rivers and lakes and I never would've even thought draining them was a possibility. Maybe that's why it seemed to me like it done more as a distraction than a normal thing.

 

[Wondergirl]

Psychologically analyzing the murderer. Thought these things may apply in this case.

At the time of the abduction, the offender had a valid reason for being at the scene of the crime. These reasons included a residence near the site, some type of social activity or work related duties. Over 57% of these types of abductions were considered crimes of opportunity. The method of abduction in 65% of the incidents was a sighting, a sudden assault and a quick abduction

The most reliable research available indicates that there are only 100-130 cases of stranger abductions a year in the United States. These events are most frequently committed by males (86%) who are between the ages of 20 and 39 (57%). Again, the child was taken from an outdoor area in 54% of the cases

In over 85% of the cases, the child was kept within 50 miles of the abduction location and most frequently (28%), the victim was held in the home of the suspect.

The duration of a kidnapping episode was usually less than 24 hours (90%). Only less than 10% lasted longer than one day.

Ominously, the child suffered a sexual or physical assault in an astounding 86% of the stereotypical kidnappings.

http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/psychology/child_abduction/3.html

[url]http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/psychology/child_abduction/4.html


[/URL]

 

[Wondergirl]

Here's a suggestion to LE.

Cross-check any search volunteers to those with origins in Bremer County.

JMO

 

[armcha1r_detect1ve]

I just wanted to add an additional quote on Aunt Tammy's info on the K-9s. This is from the Nancy Grace transcript 7/19/12 (http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/19/ng.01.html):

BROUSSEAU: Yes, not, you know, not at the -- just at the edge of the water. If you continue on down the bike trail east, there is about approximately 400 acres of forest, dense forest to the left side, and that is where the dogs continued on to and picked up the girls` scent. And that`s when they stopped and brought the dog back and they did the next dog. The next dog positively identified the next girl`s person to be in that forest. And that`s kind of where I believe it went cold for them. The dogs couldn't pick up anymore scent. I'm not saying for sure that they couldn't pick up more scent and go on further, but that is where the investigators stopped, brought the dogs back, told us that, yes, the dogs positively identified the girls to go past the site where the bikes were dropped and farther on into the forest.

Also of note, the Evansdale area has Google Streetview images for July 2012, August 2012 and September 2012.

I have spent numerous hours combing the streets in Google maps as the street views were taken 1-2 months after the incident. It's like a time capsule with the pink bows all over the mailboxes.

Look at Grandma's house, decked out in pink: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.476...ata=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sVSzzN1sYPmId3sVK2uB9YA!2e0

Cars in driveways change colors between Aug and Sept (go forward on Elmer and see the white SUV on the right change to a black one: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.463...ata=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sn6MLAAFyYlvUmOlzEIVKgA!2e0

There are white SUVs everywhere including some right next to the bike path: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.466...ata=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sxCMd9e9QuXsz10Rmr9jE5Q!2e0

And some really creepy places: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.464...ata=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sWcbs1YU24WeFO36mkhkJiw!2e0

 

[threecrazykids]

I just wanted to add an additional quote on Aunt Tammy's info on the K-9s. This is from the Nancy Grace transcript 7/19/12 (http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/19/ng.01.html):






I have spent numerous hours combing the streets in Google maps as the street views were taken 1-2 months after the incident. It's like a time capsule with the pink bows all over the mailboxes.

Look at Grandma's house, decked out in pink: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.476...ata=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sVSzzN1sYPmId3sVK2uB9YA!2e0

This is actually the Collins house you have pictured - this is Grandma Wylma's house in Waterloo https://www.google.com/maps/@42.488...ata=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sHsNmyF12mWxPOwHNN03KlA!2e0

Cars in driveways change colors between Aug and Sept (go forward on Elmer and see the white SUV on the right change to a black one: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.463...ata=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sn6MLAAFyYlvUmOlzEIVKgA!2e0

There are white SUVs everywhere including some right next to the bike path: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.466...ata=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sxCMd9e9QuXsz10Rmr9jE5Q!2e0

And some really creepy places: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.464...ata=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sWcbs1YU24WeFO36mkhkJiw!2e0

Another residence I just noticed was this one in Waterloo - just around the block from Wylma's house. https://www.google.com/maps/@42.488...ata=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1srNXGly-IiiNv3SI5mLUY7w!2e0

The reason I paid attention to this one was because of this post of Ollipop's post # 335.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...vansdale-13-July-2012-8&p=8199600#post8199600
There was likely a reason they went beating down doors in that area so I figured I'd do some "street walking" around the area to see what I could find. If you go just around the corner from the front of this house you can see a white "suv" albeit not a "large" one as was described, but it caught my eye nonetheless.

 

[watcher9]

This map shows the bike trail.



(sbm)

Does anyone remember why we felt like the girls left Fairway and turned down Morrell to get on the bike trail instead of continuing down S Evans Rd to get to where they were seen passing by the Carpenters house on Gilbert and Lake?