Found Deceased IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #37

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Just looking at this picture, it is a miracle the girls' remains were recovered at all.

L&LRS#1.jpg

"It’s unclear if the area where the girls were found had been searched by police, Abben said. Authorities asked sheriff’s departments in surrounding counties to search parks, but the wildlife area was isolated from major roads, he said."

"The wildlife area is popular with hunters in the fall, fishers in the summer and mushroom hunters in the spring, said Frank Frederick, director of the Bremer County Conservation Board."

"Not as many people fished in the area this summer because of low water levels, Frederick said. His office doesn’t track the number of visitors to the area, which has no electricity or running water, he said."

http://archive.desmoinesregister.co...Bridges-Wildlife-Area-closed-off-combed-clues
 
Would a young perp or a not so bright older perp, go to that kind of trouble to hide/ dump the bodies?
 
RichKelly-

I'm wondering if you know if LE would/likely have access to some sort of database that would show the sale of, or a change in registration names for, a particular type of vehicle. Say....oh, for instance, an older, boxy, white SUV?

I know it's like searching for a needle in a haystack, but so is asking for the community at large provide names of every single person who has ever mentioned or been to Seven Bridges park in the last 50 years.
 
RichKelly-

I'm wondering if you know if LE would/likely have access to some sort of database that would show the sale of, or a change in registration names for, a particular type of vehicle. Say....oh, for instance, an older, boxy, white SUV?

I know it's like searching for a needle in a haystack, but so is asking for the community at large provide names of every single person who has ever mentioned or been to Seven Bridges park in the last 50 years.


No i dont have the ability to do so , Im former LE BTW
 
The opposite of "Linkage Blindness" is "Linkage Blindness".

We had a case downunder where a serial killer was accused of murdering a school girl, confessed, was tried and sentenced, only to have the little darling turn up alive and well years later

She'd been hiding in her boyfriends closet for years.

Linking unrelated cases is just as risky as ignoring links.

In Elizabeth and Lyrics case I know of zero other outstanding abductions that match these particular circumstances.

Circumstances (evidence) that SCREAM the girls knew their killer (IMHO).

In the middle of town on a bright sunny holiday - it seems almost certain the girls willingly went with *whoever*.

If there is a Linkage Blindness by myself, a similar crime I don't know about, can someone please educate me?

Thanks.
 
RichKelly -
LOL...actually I was referring to CURRENT law enforcement being able to access such a database. Are you aware of the ability to search any records in a particular county/state that would provide this info if requested?
 
RichKelly, sorry to keep bugging you and really I do try to distance myself from L&L's case; however, there have been two recent attacks of women, one in Evansdale, and one at Waterloo (George Wyatt State park).

I have a link for the attack on the young woman at George Wyatt State Park (which is where Misty and Lyric often went to swim after Misty's release from the halfway house):

Authorities used motorcycles and ATVs to search for the suspect, who was believed to have been contained within the park. The man is believed to be white with lighter colored hair and in his 20s, according to a post on the Cedar Valley Crimestoppers Facebook page. He may also have scratches on his arms and face and irritation from poison ivy.

http://www.kcrg.com/subject/news/pu...t-reported-at-george-wyth-state-park-20150728

My question for you, are these attacks likely to be related to L&L's killer(s)? Or completely unrelated?

We realize you are retired Law Enforcement, but would current Law Enforcement have a way of looking up sales of specifically older, boxy, white SUVs?

In particular, any record of auction of white law enforcement vehicles, cruisers, park ranger vehicles, etc. that had their law ID stickers removed?

whitesuv.jpg

www.facepunch.com
 
RichKelly, sorry to keep bugging you and really I do try to distance myself from L&L's case; however, there have been two recent attacks of women, one in Evansdale, and one at Waterloo (George Wyatt State park).

I have a link for the attack on the young woman at George Wyatt State Park (which is where Misty and Lyric often went to swim after Misty's release from the halfway house):

Authorities used motorcycles and ATVs to search for the suspect, who was believed to have been contained within the park. The man is believed to be white with lighter colored hair and in his 20s, according to a post on the Cedar Valley Crimestoppers Facebook page. He may also have scratches on his arms and face and irritation from poison ivy.

http://www.kcrg.com/subject/news/pu...t-reported-at-george-wyth-state-park-20150728

My question for you, are these attacks likely to be related to L&L's killer(s)? Or completely unrelated?

No bother at all I voluntarily offered my insight on this thread, (Which I stopped doing for awhile) but I more than welcome questions

My feeling is that its unrelated, I can't say without reading victim interviews case files etc. There's a chance neither attack on the adults themselves are even related .

Now that doesnt mean Im right, remember Im going off news reports essentially. But I dont feel it is related.



We realize you are retired Law Enforcement, but would current Law Enforcement have a way of looking up sales of specifically older, boxy, white SUVs?

You can look up records of title transfers around that time, but those are unreliable as some people will sell or inherit a car and never transfer over the title.

Add to that you're looking at mountains of vehicle transfers , (if t he title was transferred at all) just within the 5 month span between their disappearance and their recovery .

We don't know when or even if the offender has transferred a vehicle, or if he had it painted then sold it , could be sitting in a barn, in a junkyard, he could have drove it into a lake and called it in stolen, set it on fire and claimed the INs money for it .... Though it SOUNDS like a viable option in terms of investigating this case, it's a daunting task .

Theres also always the chance it wasn't even his vehicle , maybe he had a rental or , possibly a company vehicle where at worst he would have to account for mileage when it was returned, once a rental is returned its cleaned by the rental service, ...that reduces the chance of trace evidence.

In particular, any record of auction of white law enforcement vehicles, cruisers, park ranger vehicles, etc. that had their law ID stickers removed?

Most agencies will remove all identification stickers prior to sending a vehicle to auction, they are responsible (at least here they are) for removing anything that identifies which locale or district they are from.

Decals that say "Police" or "Sheriff" etc.. can be left on the vehicles , however the ones that identify the dept must be removed (again here) .

Who houses those records depends on who actually sells them, some auto auctions will buy bulk vehicles from a department upon their retirement from the fleet and sell them . In those cases the vehicle titles are transferred to the Auction company.

Those auction houses generally remove all identifiable placards and decals, because it would cost a buyer extra to have them removed then the vehicle re-painted (can tell ive done this before)

Because its more costly and often involves welding etc..few remove things like light bars etc...

Hope that helps
 
RichKelly -
LOL...actually I was referring to CURRENT law enforcement being able to access such a database. Are you aware of the ability to search any records in a particular county/state that would provide this info if requested?

They can search legal title transferrs, but as I posted in the thread above thats both unreliable and rediculously tedious.

Too many factors to consider, Title ever transferred?, Was the vehicle destroyed, or hidden, was it painted then sold as another color that would complicate locating it , was it a company vehicle, was it a rental?.. too many things that looking for the title can't identify.


Therefore though its an option, its not really a viable one
 
Also since the introduction of VICAP "linkage blindness" is not a problem any more.

Part of a modern investigators SOP is to check VICAP for matching crimes, anywhere in the country.

Killers like Israel Keyes basically rewrote the guidelines on how to investigate a suspected serial killer.

We have no other crimes that are similar, that I know of.

Also we have no indication of the SK behavior - such as evidence of arranging, torture, displaying, doing the extra stuff that marks a SK from a Killer of Convenience. The girls were found clothed and with footwear, no mention of removal of a trophy.

No warnings from police to Be Vigilant.

I suggest LE know who did this, have done since Day One, just (as usual) cant prove it YET.

Smock threw a bunch of spanners in the works also, complicating the investigation intentionally.

Small town nightmare...but the FBI are on this one eh.

They always get their guy.
 
No bother at all I voluntarily offered my insight on this thread, (Which I stopped doing for awhile) but I more than welcome questions

My feeling is that its unrelated, I can't say without reading victim interviews case files etc. There's a chance neither attack on the adults themselves are even related .

Now that doesnt mean Im right, remember Im going off news reports essentially. But I dont feel it is related.



Decals that say "Police" or "Sheriff" etc.. can be left on the vehicles , however the ones that identify the dept must be removed (again here) .

Who houses those records depends on who actually sells them, some auto auctions will buy bulk vehicles from a department upon their retirement from the fleet and sell them . In those cases the vehicle titles are transferred to the Auction company.

Those auction houses generally remove all identifiable placards and decals, because it would cost a buyer extra to have them removed then the vehicle re-painted (can tell ive done this before)

Because its more costly and often involves welding etc..few remove things like light bars etc...

Hope that helps

Helps very much. Thank you. I was wondering about the light bars in particular. Had a local pervert who was getting his jollies by pulling women over in his former LE vehicle by flashing his lights. I think he was eventually made to remove the lights, but the car still looked like a cop car and since he was a "verified storm chaser" he bought more lights that you can slap on your hood... I suppose when he was driving at high rates of speed to chase a storm. He put some fancy storm chaser decals on the car.

Well, local LE says they are waiting on that one phone call to solve this case. I think someone will connect the dots hopefully soon and there will be an arrest in this haunting case.
 
Helps very much. Thank you. I was wondering about the light bars in particular. Had a local pervert who was getting his jollies by pulling women over in his former LE vehicle by flashing his lights. I think he was eventually made to remove the lights, but the car still looked like a cop car and since he was a "verified storm chaser" he bought more lights that you can slap on your hood... I suppose when he was driving at high rates of speed to chase a storm. He put some fancy storm chaser decals on the car.

Well, local LE says they are waiting on that one phone call to solve this case. I think someone will connect the dots hopefully soon and there will be an arrest in this haunting case.


Heh this reminds me of an episode of Cold Case Files I just watched yesterday, about Derek Todd.

One of the oldest hookers I'd ever seen escaped his clutches.

He pretended to be a cop and she said

"normally when I get arrested there's a bunch of blue lights. This time, there were no lights so I knew he was a fake"

Lol @ "normally" Poor thing mustve been arrested dozens of times!

Saved her life though!
 
RichKelly-

I'm wondering if you know if LE would/likely have access to some sort of database that would show the sale of, or a change in registration names for, a particular type of vehicle. Say....oh, for instance, an older, boxy, white SUV?

I know it's like searching for a needle in a haystack, but so is asking for the community at large provide names of every single person who has ever mentioned or been to Seven Bridges park in the last 50 years.

The who murdered Mickey Shunick burned his white truck in another county, then proceeded to purchase an identical white truck so nobody would know - once the vehicle of interest video was released.

By all appearances in this case, the make and model have not been determined - they have not been released- and the vehicle description is vague enough not to limit and witnesses - but neither does it narrow things down.

Were there any tire impressions left at the scene if the bikes or, despite the lag in time, the recovery location?

Russell Williams had a single tire installed incorrectly -his very unique tread patterned and expensive tires - on his suv. When stopped at a roadside check 1 week to the day after the abduction of his final victim Jessica Lloyd, an astute policeman recognized that odd tire pattern, thus beginning the takedown of one of Canada's most notorious sexual killers.

LE already had the department of motor vehicle list for the narrow group of suvs that could take those special tires. So, yes, the answer top your question is they can certainly run a DMV list on specific suvs registered within a certain radius.

Approaching the car dealerships in the area for records of sales or TRADE INs on those types of suvs may narrow things considerably.

Brandon Lavergne was a RSO. A picture of the vehicles he owned were visible on his RSO record online. I remember looking at it.

Have the RSO vehicles been looked at in the vicinity of Evansdale and Bremner County for this case?
 
Helps very much. Thank you. I was wondering about the light bars in particular. Had a local pervert who was getting his jollies by pulling women over in his former LE vehicle by flashing his lights. I think he was eventually made to remove the lights, but the car still looked like a cop car and since he was a "verified storm chaser" he bought more lights that you can slap on your hood... I suppose when he was driving at high rates of speed to chase a storm. He put some fancy storm chaser decals on the car.

Well, local LE says they are waiting on that one phone call to solve this case. I think someone will connect the dots hopefully soon and there will be an arrest in this haunting case.

BIG problem, one common trait we find amongst Sadistic criminals (true sadists) ... Is often a fascination with Law Enforcement .

Which is why when we take cases of police impersonators, extremely serious .
 
Depressing thought of the day: what if LE has already released essentially all of the forensics and actual evidence in the case?

I sometimes wonder if there wasn't just a huge lack of forensic and other evidence, so that the only thing LE knows that hasn't gone public is that everything has gone public. Clearly, they cannot release the list of everyone who has been interviewed or everyone who has been the subject of a tip or the contents of tips.

So, for example, fingerprints. What if there were so many different fingerprints at the scene that trying to pick out the perp's is hopeless? What if there is no DNA? Or the DNA that has been found is so degraded as to be useless? What if the cause of death was not determinable beyond the impossibility of it being suicide?

If this were the case, I doubt LE would say so because that would be giving the perp way too much information and emotional comfort.

I want, very badly, to believe that LE does have at least some information they aren't sharing.
 
BIG problem, one common trait we find amongst Sadistic criminals (true sadists) ... Is often a fascination with Law Enforcement .

Which is why when we take cases of police impersonators, extremely serious .

While sleuthing a missing person case in Horry County/Myrtle Beach SC, a couple years ago, there was a police impersonator sexually assaulting college students. I did a search of the frequency of police impersonator crimes in the US. I was amazed at how common this ruse was used in abductions, sexual assaults, and a variety of other violent crimes.

All young drivers should be taught the proper safety procedures to follow when involved in a traffic stop by unmarked or suspicious police vehicles, especially at night. They should first contact dispatch; 911, to verify that it is actually LE, while slowly proceeding with their emergency flashers on to a safe location once verified. If it is not a legitimate police officer, the dispatcher will give proper directions to follow.
 
BIG problem, one common trait we find amongst Sadistic criminals (true sadists) ... Is often a fascination with Law Enforcement .

Which is why when we take cases of police impersonators, extremely serious .

Which is why it concerns me even more that the girl who reported being approached on the Evansdale Nature Trail said she was attacked by 2 men who were dressed as police officers. Like I said...if this person is impersonating an officer and approached the girls I have no doubt they'd go with him. No doubt whatsoever.

The question remains then - how have these men not been spotted by ANYONE who recognized them in Evansdale? Because they aren't FROM Evansdale.
 
Depressing thought of the day: what if LE has already released essentially all of the forensics and actual evidence in the case?

I sometimes wonder if there wasn't just a huge lack of forensic and other evidence, so that the only thing LE knows that hasn't gone public is that everything has gone public. Clearly, they cannot release the list of everyone who has been interviewed or everyone who has been the subject of a tip or the contents of tips.

So, for example, fingerprints. What if there were so many different fingerprints at the scene that trying to pick out the perp's is hopeless? What if there is no DNA? Or the DNA that has been found is so degraded as to be useless? What if the cause of death was not determinable beyond the impossibility of it being suicide?

If this were the case, I doubt LE would say so because that would be giving the perp way too much information and emotional comfort.

I want, very badly, to believe that LE does have at least some information they aren't sharing.

Grainne Dhu, unless the remains of L & L were washed upon the creek bank during a flash flood. The crime scene and CSI should have revealed COD, forensics, and a lot of other clues and information about the suspect/s, imo.
 
Grainne Dhu, unless the remains of L & L were washed upon the creek bank during a flash flood. The crime scene and CSI should have revealed COD, forensics, and a lot of other clues and information about the suspect/s, imo.

I have sort of come to the conclusion that possibly one or more of 3 things happened when it came to forensics:

1. The DNA does not match anyone currently in a database.
2. The only DNA found DOES match someone, but they may have a valid reason for the DNA being found on one, if not both of the girls. What they need is something that links this person to Seven Bridges. This of course would lead to the DNA matching someone familial - which LE has stated (true or untrue) are not considered suspects.
3. The DNA is only a partial match and doesn't specifically include or exclude someone they already suspect. They need more than this DNA to get a guilty verdict and they are willing to sit on it. Something that ties this person to not only the girls, but to Seven Bridges.
 
Another thing I've always wondered...is why Smock has always been SO certain this crime would be solved. He's made that statement over and over - "we are certain this crime will be solved, it's just going to take that ONE person to call in and give us the tip we are looking for".

Really? We're several years past their abduction and murder, and they are asking the public at large to call in and give them the names of anyone and everyone who have spoken the name Seven Bridges. Am I crazy in thinking that if that special someone was going to call in about it - they would have called in well before that. For someone to call in with info that is going to blow this case wide open they likely know way more about this crime than just the fact that someone mentioned hunting at Seven Bridges back in the day.

If they are counting on THAT being the final piece to tie it all together, they have to have DNA of some sort to put the final nail in the coffin. Just being at Seven Bridges at some point in your life certainly isn't enough to seal the deal.
 
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