Found Deceased IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #37

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gregjrichards said:
I struggle between one or two perps myself. I can definitely see how both girls would co-operate with one perp if they threatened to harm the remaining girl if the other left.
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There's something about Elizabeth's purse that doesn't sit well with me. Her mom said that she took her purse everywhere. It doesn't make sense that she left it by the drainage gate, and that she didn't bother to pick it up if she was lured. Was she grabbed and Lyric followed, was Elizabeth grabbed and the purse was tossed on the ground because she had a cell phone in her purse? Lyric was described by her grandmother as "a bull in a China shop", so why would she, the older, stronger, larger, more determined of the two, follow obediently if Elizabeth had been grabbed when common sense says make noise and run in the opposite direction? I understand that perhaps one would follow obediently if the other was in trouble, but Lyric would be the one to control first - I think. No one was seen dragging two girls to a vehicle, so presumably they weren't dragged to the vehicle. That suggests luring, but luring doesn't explain Elizabeth's purse being left on the ground near the bikes. Two people walking with two girls, preventing either from doing anything, explains why one person wasn't seen dragging two girls to a vehicle, and why the purse was left behind.
 
That's a big reason why I think the bikes and purse were staged.
 
carbuff said:
That's a big reason why I think the bikes and purse were staged.
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I don't think there was enough time to kidnap the girls, drive them 20 miles away, assault them, and bring the bikes back to the park - exactly where the family first looked for the girls. They vanished around 1PM. Shortly after 4PM the bikes were discovered. Staging seems very unlikely ... and wasn't there another witness who had seen two bikes on the trail between 1 and 4 PM?

When the facts of the case were still fresh in our minds, in 2013, we knew that a jogger saw the bikes on the trail at 2PM. Witnesses placed the girls near the park at around 1-1:30PM. It makes sense that the girls rode their bikes to the park, followed the trail around to the drainage gate (reason unknown), and were then abducted. If the girls and their bikes were picked up together, it doesn't make sense that the perp would secure the girls in a vehicle, and then hang around staging bikes - risking being caught - when it's easier to leave the bikes with the girl's bodies.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...yric-Cook-10-Evansdale-13-July-2012-26/page12
 
I am not sure I understand the full meaning of staging. I guess I assumed ( which is likely incorrect) that staging could be as simple as moving the bikes in any way, shape, or form, from where the girls originally dropped them. So, say for instance the girls had ridden the bikes past the gate and down closer to the wooded area - and were lured into a vehicle there. Maybe one perp simply moved the bikes from the wooded area over to the gate area and tossed them down to give the appearance that they never went past the gate and likely entered the water area there.
I agree Otto that the bikes never went WITH the girls to Seven Bridges and then brought back. I was assuming that if the bikes were moved AT ALL from where the girls were separated from them that could constitute as some form of staging.

I don't know that the bikes were necessarily staged as in the girls didn't ride them to the park (or that they did and were brought back) - but rather they were possibly moved from one location to another (even in close proximity) while never leaving Meyers Lake. I think if the bikes been found in the wooded area, it would have set the scene for a likely abduction location, versus the bikes being laid down in the bike path closer to the gate - which could also lead to a presumption of drowning.

I also truly believe that it's likely that someone riding their bike (or even walking), came across the bikes laying in the path and simply leaned them up against the fence - completely unaware that they had unintentionally tampered with a crime scene. Yet another reason that IF there was DNA on those bikes that didn't belong to the girls that it could easily be explained how non-familial DNA could end up on the bikes and not necessarily be a perp.

Can anyone give a little more info on what all constitutes staging?
 
You're right, staging can be as simple as that.

I suspect that someone with a pickup or SUV/van with space in the back pulled up to them, said, "Hey girls, you're late. Your grandma sent me to get you and boy are you in trouble. Now throw your bikes in the back and get in here NOW!" Which could have happened in the wooded area, or even on the streets, which don't seem to have been very busy at that time on a hot summer day, and could have been someone they knew, or just a stalker.

Three hours is plenty of time. I doubt that it took more than an hour, including the driving.
 
The girls and their bikes were seen at the North end of the park at roughly 1.10PM. The bikes were seen near the drainage gate at the South end of the park at 2PM. That leaves approximately 30-45 minutes for the bikes and girls to be taken from the park, and the bikes returned to the park ... or perhaps the bikes were not removed from the park.

What is the reasoning behind taking the bikes from the park and returning them to the park within 30-45 minutes?

I think the girls left their bikes where they were found. I do recall that at the outset of this abduction we didn't know that the girls had been seen at the park shortly after 1PM, so we speculated that they could have been abducted near Elizabeth's house, and the bikes staged at the park. Now we know that they rode their bikes to the park and that they were at the park shortly before the bikes were seen on the trail.
 
carbuff said:
You're right, staging can be as simple as that.

I suspect that someone with a pickup or SUV/van with space in the back pulled up to them, said, "Hey girls, you're late. Your grandma sent me to get you and boy are you in trouble. Now throw your bikes in the back and get in here NOW!" Which could have happened in the wooded area, or even on the streets, which don't seem to have been very busy at that time on a hot summer day, and could have been someone they knew, or just a stalker.

Three hours is plenty of time. I doubt that it took more than an hour, including the driving.
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A 20 mile drive takes at least 30 minutes, the round trip is at least an hour. There was also the time for the double murder. It's impossible that the girls were abducted after 1PM and the perp was back at the trail (post double murder) before 2PM.
 
otto said:
There's something about Elizabeth's purse that doesn't sit well with me. Her mom said that she took her purse everywhere. It doesn't make sense that she left it by the drainage gate, and that she didn't bother to pick it up if she was lured. Was she grabbed and Lyric followed, was Elizabeth grabbed and the purse was tossed on the ground because she had a cell phone in her purse? Lyric was described by her grandmother as "a bull in a China shop", so why would she, the older, stronger, larger, more determined of the two, follow obediently if Elizabeth had been grabbed when common sense says make noise and run in the opposite direction? I understand that perhaps one would follow obediently if the other was in trouble, but Lyric would be the one to control first - I think. No one was seen dragging two girls to a vehicle, so presumably they weren't dragged to the vehicle. That suggests luring, but luring doesn't explain Elizabeth's purse being left on the ground near the bikes. Two people walking with two girls, preventing either from doing anything, explains why one person wasn't seen dragging two girls to a vehicle, and why the purse was left behind.
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I think Lyric and Elizabeth were accosted suddenly by the lake. Possibly they had gone through the gate to the lake side of the fence but I think it more likely that the perp grabbed the purse out of Elizabeth's hand and threw it over the fence, fearing it might have a cell phone in it.

Common sense and strategy says that the best thing to do when suddenly accosted is run because the perpetrator is guaranteed to want to take you somewhere you don't want to go. However, it is one thing to think things out in a calm situation and quite another to act that way during an assault. There are plenty of crimes committed that show that plenty of adults become cooperative when suddenly assaulted.

Plus, over the years, many people have posted to WebSleuths their own experiences with being assaulted; the vast majority said that they were compliant with their attacker. One such account I remember clearly was when the poster was around 11 years old and bicycling with her 11 year old friend. A man stepped out in front of them, showed them a knife and ordered them to come back into the trees with him. No accomplice, no gun, 'just' a knife. The poster said it never occurred to her to make a run for it and neither did her friend. Fortunately, the perp just exposed himself and then let them go.

I find it highly likely that both girls would have stuck together; from all accounts, they were cousins who loved each other like sisters and that combination of love, loyalty and terror probably gave their murderer all the advantage he needed.

I wish I could believe that there were two perps involved because the chances of the case being solved would go up.
 
Grainne Dhu said:
I think Lyric and Elizabeth were accosted suddenly by the lake. Possibly they had gone through the gate to the lake side of the fence but I think it more likely that the perp grabbed the purse out of Elizabeth's hand and threw it over the fence, fearing it might have a cell phone in it.

Common sense and strategy says that the best thing to do when suddenly accosted is run because the perpetrator is guaranteed to want to take you somewhere you don't want to go. However, it is one thing to think things out in a calm situation and quite another to act that way during an assault. There are plenty of crimes committed that show that plenty of adults become cooperative when suddenly assaulted.

Plus, over the years, many people have posted to WebSleuths their own experiences with being assaulted; the vast majority said that they were compliant with their attacker. One such account I remember clearly was when the poster was around 11 years old and bicycling with her 11 year old friend. A man stepped out in front of them, showed them a knife and ordered them to come back into the trees with him. No accomplice, no gun, 'just' a knife. The poster said it never occurred to her to make a run for it and neither did her friend. Fortunately, the perp just exposed himself and then let them go.

I find it highly likely that both girls would have stuck together; from all accounts, they were cousins who loved each other like sisters and that combination of love, loyalty and terror probably gave their murderer all the advantage he needed.

I wish I could believe that there were two perps involved because the chances of the case being solved would go up.
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I'm of the opinion that the girls went through the unlocked gate of their own volition, and that Elizabeth's purse was with her on the lake side of the fence. It seems likely that they were forced, lured, or coerced to walk along the lakeside of the fence towards Arbutus Lane, where it would be easy to conceal a vehicle.
 
Perhaps I've been mistaken all this time--the supposed 2pm sighting was the guy on the bike, right? I thought LE considered him to be unreliable.
 
I should probably go back and look to verify but in my recollection the biker was who saw the bikes on the path around 12:20ISH. No exact time that I can remember - his time was approximated around a call he made. Also - he only claimed to see the bikes, no girls.
 
https://iowacoldcases.org/case-summaries/lyric-cook-and-elizabeth-collins/

Case Summary
The girls were seen at about 12:23 p.m. July 13 on Brovan Boulevard in Evansdale, and then spotted between 12:30 and 1 p.m. on Gilbert Drive not far from Meyers Lake, a popular fishing and recreation area in the northeastern Iowa city of about 4,700 residents.

Can someone link to one of the MSM articles confirming by LE they were spotted around 2? I know there were tons of conversations about this sighting - I just don't have an MSM article bookmarked that I can find...
 
I got nothing. My computer updated and I lost a lot of MSM articles I had saved on the girls. :( We still have Amanda Reckonwith's site:

http://s296.photobucket.com/user/cr...ns - Lyric Cook-Morrissey -IA-?sort=6&page=1

There's 37 pages there. I shall try to peruse and see if I find anything about the 2 o'clock siting.

Just my random thoughts on Lizzy's purse: The girls were murdered prior to Jessica Ridgeway, and I did not follow poor Jessica's case so closely. They caught the murderer so quick, but out of bits and pieces I do remember hearing they found Jessica's glasses. I don't have a direct quote, but the thought for Jessica's glasses being left behind was because her killer told them to leave the glasses there because she wasn't going to need them. I have often thought this is what the killer told Elizabeth regarding her purse. Maybe it was because of the cell phone, but also because he knew she wouldn't need the purse because he already knew he was going to kill them, and he did, and I hope they did not suffer.

This link has always been a good reference source to killers and their awareness space. :tyou to Margarita25 for originally posting the link.

Jessica Ridgeway: Killer’s ‘awareness space’ may lead to clues


By Jefferson Dodge and Joel Dyer -

October 18, 2012

Law enforcement officials from dozens of different agencies, including the FBI, have been gathering and analyzing forensic evidence from Jessica’s home, the location where her body was found and the area where her backpack and its contents were discovered. But unlike an episode of CSI, research on child abduction murder cases suggests that such forensic evidence will not be particularly useful in solving this murder case. In fact, in most cases of child abduction murder, the main role of forensic evidence such as DNA is to help secure a conviction once the murderer has been caught by other means.

When it actually comes to solving child abduction murder cases, the research suggests that the two most important elements, barring an eyewitness to some portion of the crime, is determining the relationship between the murderer and the victim and examining the murderer’s “awareness space.”
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http://www.boulderweekly.com/news/j...-lsquoawareness-spacersquo-may-lead-to-clues/
 
Jessica's glasses along with her clothing were placed by the killer in her book bag which was later dumped on a sidewalk in a subdivision in an attempt to lure LE away from the killer's location. Here's a link below which describes the case.

As far as Elizabeth's purse, I believe she put it there by the gate so it wouldn't get wet while they played near the water. As a side note, does anyone know if she normally carried her purse on one shoulder or if she put it over her head on the opposite shoulder so it would cross her chest?

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_24631031/evidence-details-twisted-path-that-led-austin-sigg
 
I can't find a reference, but I thought it was on a wrist loop.
 
I think someone told them to Get in with them to go home. Maybe they even told them to leave the bikes and they would come back for them later.
 
otto said:
The girls and their bikes were seen at the North end of the park at roughly 1.10PM. The bikes were seen near the drainage gate at the South end of the park at 2PM. That leaves approximately 30-45 minutes for the bikes and girls to be taken from the park, and the bikes returned to the park ... or perhaps the bikes were not removed from the park.

What is the reasoning behind taking the bikes from the park and returning them to the park within 30-45 minutes?

I think the girls left their bikes where they were found. I do recall that at the outset of this abduction we didn't know that the girls had been seen at the park shortly after 1PM, so we speculated that they could have been abducted near Elizabeth's house, and the bikes staged at the park. Now we know that they rode their bikes to the park and that they were at the park shortly before the bikes were seen on the trail.
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I have never heard about anyone saying they saw them at the park at 1:10.
 
http://www.thegazette.com/2012/09/13/evansdale-marks-two-months-since-cousins-disappearance
Earlier in day, Capt. Rick Abben with the Black Hawk County Sheriff’s Office asked residents to report anything suspicious that may be linked to the missing girls.

For instance, maybe there is someone who had plans to be in the Evansdale area on July 13 — perhaps a camping or business trip — but later said something came up and they weren’t able to go, he said. Maybe someone had an abrupt change of behavior or suddenly needed to get rid of a boat or car.

The Sheriff’s Office also asked residents to take a close look at photos of the girls and consider that their appearance may have been altered. Hair can change, so concentrate on freckles, moles and their smiles, the sheriff’s office advised.

Whoever abducted the girls is known by many people, although their relatives, neighbors and co-workers may not think they are capable of such a thing, the sheriff’s office said.

The girls were seen at about 12:23 p.m. July 13 on Brovan Boulevard in Evansdale, and then spotted between 12:30 and 1 p.m. on Gilbert Drive not far from Meyers Lake. Their bikes and a purse were later found on a trial behind the lake.

Authorities are asking that anyone in the area of Arbutus Avenue and Gilbert Drive that day notify law enforcement.
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rbbm.
 
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