Found Deceased IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #37

[:+:MrTT:+:]

Check with TOMNOD / Digital Globe:
https://www.digitalglobe.com/

Thank you for that. Still learning there but i finally see Maiden Ln! Above photo Was not showing on Google so i never knew exactly where it was, But there it is.......That is a perfect spot for an abduction. Thats an area someone would have had to been before to go there. Thats not an accident find. The abductor knew that was a perfect spot to abduct a female from the bike trail because they had been there before and knew of its existence. They could set there and watch bikers come and go until they decided to strike. Thats not something that was showing on google maps, so perhaps not even the killer would have found it. A area someone knew about.

 

[:+:MrTT:+:]

That little building is a utility lift station; Maiden Lane makes a relatively gentle curve behind that building and goes almost to the lower end of your measuring line at about the place where the "200 feet" label is. So a predator could have been parked closer to the bike path than to the lift station.

It really was the perfect spot to abduct someone from (it has been changed since the girls were abducted). There were people who thought the actual abduction may have taken place up near the Collins house and the bikes/purse planted as a false lead but I just can't see it. The area around the Collins house is largely residential but there's also a little strip mall, so a fair number of people coming and going during the day. The area in the park was relatively deserted but had a steady flow of walkers and bicyclists going through.

I think the perp abducted the girls right there off the bike path and he was in such a hurry that he did not do the obvious thing, which would have been to throw the bikes and purse into the lake. That would have slowed the search even more and probably concentrated it around the Collins house because that would have been the last place they were seen. But the perp had 2 girls to control and probably figured that the risk in taking the time to hide the bikes was too great.

Yes, I finally see where that Maiden Lane is located. Post681 And yes that is the perfect spot for the abduction. Its easy to see why they changed things as you said. Thats not an area that someone would find by chance. That is a spot someone knew about before because they had been there.

What can you tell us about the ........utility lift station/is it still in use/how often does one visit there/what company does one work for to visit the utility lift station etc...........The abductor knew that was there, and knew to drive around it and parked. Perfect hiding spot.

 

[:+:MrTT:+:]

I found this picture. Looks as perhaps the Leos, may have already done this.

 

[NWLady]

When they talked about counseling, it was interesting because it didn't go along with anything I had seen before. Ron Steele asked about counseling and he seemed to be talking to Drew and then Drew replied about he was going and in his answer, he indicated it was marriage counseling. And then Heather chimed in and they talked about their difficulties and how their marriage is stronger now. No indication at all they were referring to grief counseling with the kids.



There is a part three.

http://www.kwwl.com/category/256572/the-steele-report

I'm assuming it's in there since it was near the end this morning on TV. Ron brought up that Drew has a business and Drew talked about how hard that's been because he wants to sleep and it's hard on Heather running a household and dealing with the kids when Drew is in bed all day.

I am just catching up on Lyric and Elizabeth's thread as I didn't realize it had been moved to Cold Cases on WS. I cannot find the Part 3 of the interview/Ron Steele report. Does anyone have a link possibly? I didn't realize there was 3 parts, I only remember 2. Thank you in advance.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

Was not showing on Google so i never knew exactly where it was, But there it is.......That is a perfect spot for an abduction. Thats an area someone would have had to been before to go there. Thats not an accident find. The abductor knew that was a perfect spot to abduct a female from the bike trail because they had been there before and knew of its existence. They could set there and watch bikers come and go until they decided to strike. Thats not something that was showing on google maps, so perhaps not even the killer would have found it. A area someone knew about.

Word from locals that Maiden Lane was fairly well known amongst teens in the area as a party spot. Same thing as with 7 Bridges: hidden from ordinary surveillance, not known to the general public but anyone who was a teen in the area during the last 20 to 30 years or so probably heard about both spots if not actually attending parties held there.

Which means that even though both locations scream local knowledge, the number of people who have that particular local knowledge probably numbers in the thousands. Even if you decide that a woman was not involved, 50% of thousands is probably going to still be in the thousands.

In one of the pressers, someone working the case made reference to tip handling software. The way such software works, as I understand it, is that it is a form of database. Every lead and tip is put into the database and then the software kicks out lists of names that occur in more than one category. The chosen categories are specified by the person using the program so that if, for example, they decide the white vehicle was just coincidence, they can omit that category from the search.

One thing I do when thinking about the case is try to think up new categories that might be revealing. An obvious category would be anyone who had a citation for alcohol use in one or both areas. The names of hunting and fishing license holders. And so on.

The hope is that some day, someone's name will pop up in a combination of categories that hardly anyone else's does. And perhaps, that is the culprit.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Yes, I finally see where that Maiden Lane is located. Post681 And yes that is the perfect spot for the abduction. Its easy to see why they changed things as you said. Thats not an area that someone would find by chance. That is a spot someone knew about before because they had been there.

What can you tell us about the ........utility lift station/is it still in use/how often does one visit there/what company does one work for to visit the utility lift station etc...........The abductor knew that was there, and knew to drive around it and parked. Perfect hiding spot.

What about the 1000-2000 block of Lake Avenue? I think it is a perfect place, too. People keep overlooking this scenario and I don't understand why?

 

[carbuff]

Something else about that Maiden Lane location: if it was a private place to abduct someone, it's also a private place to stage the bikes without attracting notice.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

Yes, I finally see where that Maiden Lane is located. Post681 And yes that is the perfect spot for the abduction. Its easy to see why they changed things as you said. Thats not an area that someone would find by chance. That is a spot someone knew about before because they had been there.

What can you tell us about the ........utility lift station/is it still in use/how often does one visit there/what company does one work for to visit the utility lift station etc...........The abductor knew that was there, and knew to drive around it and parked. Perfect hiding spot.

Yeah, once you get a good feel for the layout of the Meyer's Lake area, it makes the hair stand up on the back of the neck. I could not have designed a more perfect spot for the purpose. The city of Evansdale and the Angels Park people have changed the look of the area significantly, so that it is much more open and there is no longer a hidden spot on the bike path.

I am not from the area but I know how it works in Iowa City because I am so curious and love to stop and watch people doing things that are unusual to me. As I understand it, all the cities in Iowa with sewage treatment systems (versus individual septic tanks) are designed as gravity flow systems. It's a design that goes back to classic Rome and it works quite well albeit with some shortcomings. One of those shortcomings is when the lay of the land rises. When that happens, the modern way to deal with it is to put in a lift station with a submersible pump at the low spots in the overall sewage system to boost the sewage uphill for as far as needed.

Lift stations are time tested and have good reliability, so long as they receive necessary maintenance. Mostly, the pumps need lubricant and regular checks to make sure they are running as they should be. In Iowa City, every lift station was checked every two weeks. Each check took about 15 minutes unless some nosy person who we shan't name but whose initials are GD comes along to ask questions.

Evansdale has its own waste water treatment plant, so the person doing the checks would work for the city of Evansdale. He's actually on their website and, given the nature of his job, I'm sure he could have been easily cleared (they keep records of each check, what had to be done and the state of the pumps).

 

[threecrazykids]

What about the 1000-2000 block of Lake Avenue? I think it is a perfect place, too. People keep overlooking this scenario and I don't understand why?

Hey there SS...would you be willing to explain more about your reference to this scenario? I guess I've not thought too much about how the abduction could/would have occurred right on Lake Ave. Assuming this WAS the case, we'd have a bike staging situation and not a situation of the girls being abducted at Meyer's Lake.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Hey there SS...would you be willing to explain more about your reference to this scenario? I guess I've not thought too much about how the abduction could/would have occurred right on Lake Ave. Assuming this WAS the case, we'd have a bike staging situation and not a situation of the girls being abducted at Meyer's Lake.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.

Witness said he may have seen missing Iowa girls after their disappearance


Evansdale, Ia. -- An Evansdale resident told The Des Moines Register this morning that he saw Elizabeth Collins and Lyric Cook-Morrissey ride their bikes past his house Friday afternoon.

Resident Robert Carpenter said he didn’t think anything about seeing the girls because it’s such a common occurrence.

~Snip~

Carpenter lives about 1.5 miles away in the 1000 block of Lake Avenue.

~Snip~

Carpenter, who lives north of the lake, said he saw the girls between 12 and 3 p.m. while he was outside watering his yard.

http://archive.desmoinesregister.co...-missing-Iowa-girls-after-their-disappearance

For starters, plug his name into Google and you will see he was active in the media and on the scene at Meyer's Lake. He liked the attention. He said he was the last person to see the girls. He lives right there. He and his wife claim the girls rode their bikes there all the time and from what I understand...it is not true. The girls never rode the bikes that far. He watered his lawn for 3 hours. I call BS on that, too.

I have always considered this a staged situation and not an abduction at the lake. It wouldn't take much to put the bikes there afterward, but I don't see the girls parking them there. It isn't logical to me.

 

[carbuff]

Yes, it appears that somebody is lying or mistaken about where the girls went with their bikes, how often, and with whom.

 

[dotr]

Re posting the cctv video of the girls whizzing by on their bikes.
Had always thought that they encountered perp behind the buildings, causing them to ride quickly, either because they were duped into a race of some kind, or out of fear, imo, speculation.

No particular rationale for me thinking they were accosted there, especially as Maiden's Lane does seem like an ideal and likely spot to abduct somebody, even the name Maiden is appropriate.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-io...deo-elizabeth-collins-lyric/story?id=16850676

Although the girls only look like a blur as they cross the frame on their bicycles in the video, and the footage of the two girls lasts only seconds, investigators say they now are analyzing it for any clues that could lead to information about the girls whose bicycles were later recovered on a trail by nearby Meyers Lake in Evansdale, Iowa.

"It looked kind of grainy, I mean just zoom they were by the thing and so it's very hard to really make much out of the thing," Black Hawk County Chief Deputy Rick Abben said. "The girls were less than a block from the house when this camera captured them riding by, important to note they were riding away from Meyers Lake."

The video also matches the police timeline. Investigators say the girls left the home to ride their bikes shortly after noon July 13. The camera's clock shows it was 12:11 p.m. when they rode by.

Both of their bicycles were recovered on a trial near the lake about four hours after they were reported missing, after they left for a neighborhood bike ride and haven't been seen since. [

/QUOTE]

 

[threecrazykids]

Witness said he may have seen missing Iowa girls after their disappearance


Evansdale, Ia. -- An Evansdale resident told The Des Moines Register this morning that he saw Elizabeth Collins and Lyric Cook-Morrissey ride their bikes past his house Friday afternoon.

Resident Robert Carpenter said he didn’t think anything about seeing the girls because it’s such a common occurrence.

~Snip~

Carpenter lives about 1.5 miles away in the 1000 block of Lake Avenue.

~Snip~

Carpenter, who lives north of the lake, said he saw the girls between 12 and 3 p.m. while he was outside watering his yard.

http://archive.desmoinesregister.co...-missing-Iowa-girls-after-their-disappearance

For starters, plug his name into Google and you will see he was active in the media and on the scene at Meyer's Lake. He liked the attention. He said he was the last person to see the girls. He lives right there. He and his wife claim the girls rode their bikes there all the time and from what I understand...it is not true. The girls never rode the bikes that far. He watered his lawn for 3 hours. I call BS on that, too.

I have always considered this a staged situation and not an abduction at the lake. It wouldn't take much to put the bikes there afterward, but I don't see the girls parking them there. It isn't logical to me.

I see the scenario now as you've clarified. I have to say though, that I get a different feeling from the Carpenters. I personally don't think he's lying. If I'm being 100% brutally honest, I think those girls rode their bikes way further than Wylma or the Collins family knew. OR maybe they felt it would make them look bad to actually admit they let their kids have free reign to ride wherever...as long as they checked in regularly.
I for one wouldn't have thought twice about it. I come from a small(er) town and for them to admit that the girls were gone for stretches without knowing exactly where their bike tires wore tread wouldn't have surprised me one bit - nor would I have looked down on them for it. I guess you can call it ignorance, or what have you...but one of the reasons I live where I do is so my kids can do these things. Now, we don't live in town like we used to so they aren't able to have the free reign we did when we were kids, but it wouldn't surprise me to find out that those girls rode all over and Wylma, nor the Collins family ever batted an eye at it - and felt they were safe doing so.

I don't think Mr. Carpenter watered for 3 hours, I think he watered at some point between 12 and 3 but isn't 100% certain the EXACT time. Originally I think the interview had him saying a more specific time (something like between 12 and 1) and his wife stated "between 12 and 3". I remember discussions on that.

I know that there are perps who will interject themselves into the investigation, but I personally don't have any vibes from him that he was doing anything other than stating he'd seen them that day. And we know there were other people who also saw them...closer to the entrance (parking lot area) of the lake - they just didn't get interviewed.

One thing I actually DO find suspicious is that Mr. Carpenter mentions that the girls would ride by his house (especially Elizabeth) but would turn around in the middle of the street. This to me sounds like a typical kid riding to see if their friend is home or outside. You drive down the street - maybe to the driveway to check if a specific car is there to ensure kids would be home (maybe Mom's van, or something) and if the vehicle isn't there, or you don't see kids bikes laying in the yard you know they aren't home...and maybe turned around to go look at the skate park or another gathering area for kids.
However...does this friend (who the family stated lives by the lake) maybe have older siblings who were home that day but Lizzy's friend wasn't and invited her in? Maybe something like that?

My opinion is that the girls rode their bikes around town more often - and further - than the family is willing to admit. I personally didn't get the vibe that the Carpenters are the ones lying about Lizzie riding by their house often - but again, this is just a difference of opinions, not to discredit your scenario as a possibility.

 

[Bootsctr]

Just a quick comment about the lawn-watering gentleman, I think he knew Elizabeth, he and his wife both knew Elizabeth. They admitted in a TV interview they were not familiar with Lyric, which seems to point to a gap in time when Lyric and Elizabeth were allowed to be together again. I think when Misty was released from the halfway house that Lyric stayed with Misty in Waterloo as opposed to going to Evansdale on a daily basis and most certainly not when school was in session. I cannot remember when Wylma took custody of Lyric, but I don't think Lyric's visits were on a daily basis.

I agree that Lizzy traveled further on her bike than her parents were aware. IIRC, she even knew the parents of the young woman murdered by her Radiologist boyfriend. They lived close to the lake, I believe, and they knew Lizzy too.

In the video it seems as if Lizzy is leading the way on the bikes. The U-turn on the bikes sounds exactly like kids checking to see if their friends were home. Perhaps, Lizzy had just learned the way to the lake and was eager to show her older cousin, Lyric, but wanted to see if the friends were home so they could ride with them to the lake. When they checked and they weren't home, Lizzy decided to take Lyric to the lake anyway. It seems there might have been some hesitation on Lyric's part because she had just been reprimanded by Dan 2 weeks earlier for wandering off and coming home late. Then, of course, there was the lesson from Aunt Tammy about "stranger danger". I think that lesson was given to Lyric and her daughter, not Lizzy.

It would not be uncommon for children in any small town to wander for a few miles on their bikes and the parents be totally unaware, IMO. Certainly can't blame the parents. No one believes that someone in a small town would be capable of abducting and murdering 2 little girls. Everybody knows everybody, right? I believe Lizzy was quite precocious and made friends easily. I remember reading she even wrote a letter to one of her teachers during the summer. Just by looking at Lyric's smile, she seems she could be introverted, while Lizzy was an extrovert. They balanced each other.

At this point, it doesn't seem anyone can be ruled in or out.... Too many suspects as Sapphire Steel would say. That being said, drugs being involved can't be ruled out either. The person or persons responsible may have been as high as kites when they did abducted the girls. That is where the lines are blurred: Misty, Heather, brother, Aunt Tammy, RSO cousins. It sure has been a long time to keep a secret.

I wonder if the teachers at the day care close to the lake were ever questioned if they ever saw someone unusual at Meyers Lake? Somebody who might have made their hair on the neck stand up... A familiar vehicle they saw regularly cruising/trolling the area maybe.

 

[alliemay]

Just a quick comment about the lawn-watering gentleman, I think he knew Elizabeth, he and his wife both knew Elizabeth. They admitted in a TV interview they were not familiar with Lyric, which seems to point to a gap in time when Lyric and Elizabeth were allowed to be together again. I think when Misty was released from the halfway house that Lyric stayed with Misty in Waterloo as opposed to going to Evansdale on a daily basis and most certainly not when school was in session. I cannot remember when Wylma took custody of Lyric, but I don't think Lyric's visits were on a daily basis.

I agree that Lizzy traveled further on her bike than her parents were aware. IIRC, she even knew the parents of the young woman murdered by her Radiologist boyfriend. They lived close to the lake, I believe, and they knew Lizzy too.

In the video it seems as if Lizzy is leading the way on the bikes. The U-turn on the bikes sounds exactly like kids checking to see if their friends were home. Perhaps, Lizzy had just learned the way to the lake and was eager to show her older cousin, Lyric, but wanted to see if the friends were home so they could ride with them to the lake. When they checked and they weren't home, Lizzy decided to take Lyric to the lake anyway. It seems there might have been some hesitation on Lyric's part because she had just been reprimanded by Dan 2 weeks earlier for wandering off and coming home late. Then, of course, there was the lesson from Aunt Tammy about "stranger danger". I think that lesson was given to Lyric and her daughter, not Lizzy.

It would not be uncommon for children in any small town to wander for a few miles on their bikes and the parents be totally unaware, IMO. Certainly can't blame the parents. No one believes that someone in a small town would be capable of abducting and murdering 2 little girls. Everybody knows everybody, right? I believe Lizzy was quite precocious and made friends easily. I remember reading she even wrote a letter to one of her teachers during the summer. Just by looking at Lyric's smile, she seems she could be introverted, while Lizzy was an extrovert. They balanced each other.

At this point, it doesn't seem anyone can be ruled in or out.... Too many suspects as Sapphire Steel would say. That being said, drugs being involved can't be ruled out either. The person or persons responsible may have been as high as kites when they did abducted the girls. That is where the lines are blurred: Misty, Heather, brother, Aunt Tammy, RSO cousins. It sure has been a long time to keep a secret.

I wonder if the teachers at the day care close to the lake were ever questioned if they ever saw someone unusual at Meyers Lake? Somebody who might have made their hair on the neck stand up... A familiar vehicle they saw regularly cruising/trolling the area maybe.

The person who owed and ran the day care also took the children on walks in the park as part of their daily routine. I wonder if it was the same time every day? It was the perfect spot, a day care center and school is out for the summer so their would be children there playing.

 

[Bootsctr]

The person who owed and ran the day care also took the children on walks in the park as part of their daily routine. I wonder if it was the same time every day? It was the perfect spot, a day care center and school is out for the summer so their would be children there playing.

Yes, indeed! I keep thinking back of all the reports of a black van with a man and a woman involved with attempted abductions. A darker vehicle would have blended even better than a white vehicle.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

I wonder if the teachers at the day care close to the lake were ever questioned if they ever saw someone unusual at Meyers Lake? Somebody who might have made their hair on the neck stand up... A familiar vehicle they saw regularly cruising/trolling the area maybe.

SBM

I agree that Elizabeth was probably ranging further on her bike than her parents knew. I know I sure did when I was 8 years old! Looking back, I realise that my mother probably had some suspicions but so long as my sister (one year younger than me) and I were with the neighbourhood pack of kids, it felt safe. And, statistically, it was safe, if by safe you set the standard of risk at riding in a car. It still is; it sucks horribly to be the exception to the rule.

The problem with asking witnesses about vehicles they see regularly is that such vehicles tend to fade into the background. If you see the same vehicle every day for 8 months and nothing bad happens associated with that vehicle in 8 months, that seems like a safe vehicle, just part of the routine of the neighbourhood. That is how Gary Ridgway and Robert Pickton managed to evade notice; they were in the habit of using the services of sex workers in their respective territories and most of the time, the sex workers were not hurt. So even though some of the sex workers started talking about "Farmer Bob" and identifying him as a "bad date," the many sex workers who had routine business dealings with him just couldn't see him as a threat.

 

[B4igo2it]

I wonder if the same people that frequented the Meyer's Lake area back then still do today? Especially of interest, those that use the running & bike paths.
I wonder if there have been any type of reported incidents and how many, in the Meyer's Lake surroundings since the disappearance of L&E?

 

[Grainne Dhu]

I wonder if the same people that frequented the Meyer's Lake area back then still do today? Especially of interest, those that use the running & bike paths.
I wonder if there have been any type of reported incidents and how many, in the Meyer's Lake surroundings since the disappearance of L&E?

I would think any incidents around Meyers Lake would have gotten a lot of press coverage.

However, I think your questions about people who may have changed their patterns after Lyric and Elizabeth were abducted is really good. I'm sure there are probably a few women, probably younger women, who decided not to use that area afterwards but I would looooooove to know about any men who may have changed their pattern of usage.

 

[Bootsctr]

Yes, I'd love to know who up and moved too - maybe was living closer to 7-Bridges and moved abruptly. Speaking of 7-Bridges, has anyone checked google maps for images of vehicles captured there prior to 07/13/2012, and/or during the period of 07/13 to 12/2012 when the bodies were discovered? Or is it just too remote for Google?