Found Deceased IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #37

[carbuff]

I think, have always thought, they were taken by someone they knew well and killed immediately.

There has never been a tinge of SA in this, ever.

There is another, as yet unknown, motive imo.

No one kept them, imo...they were killed immediately (statistics support this)

I agree with you that this is the most likely. I don't think the other options have been eliminated though. I also think it could be a teenage thrill killer, like the evil person who killed Jessica Ridgway (and I'm deliberately not writing his name. He doesn't deserve it.)

 

[alliemay]

I still feel the girls may have seen their abductor before, possibly in passing them on the street maybe even waving and saying hello. All just opinions here but I don't feel they were lured to the lake. They were riding their bikes, came in for a drink and went back out again, I think they were just having fun and being adventurous that day. I don't think the killer was waiting for them in particular, he was waiting for kids in a park where kids go when school is out. I always felt they were killed the same day and that it was a sexual crime. As far as LE stating that the girls were familiar with their killer they do not state the degree of familiarity so its hard to say if they really know something or if they are just trying to assure the public that they are working on this.

 

[:+:MrTT:+:]

After watching a few of the video pressers from the Leos. They themselves seemed certain that the girls were still alive hours after they were missing. The search dogs tracked there scent a shot distance inside the woods/brush there where there bikes were found. Which would indicate they got off there bikes and entered that area for whatever reason. If they were killed immediately, seems the bodies would have been found right there, where there bikes were. Why travel over 24 miles to kill them. Just kill them right there. Or why kill them there, and then transport there bodies miles away to dump the bodies. The Leos seemed certain they were taking alive from the area, Apparently nothing at the scene indicated they were dead already, such as blood found etc. As far as we know a note could have been left saying they had the children and would release them later, BUT something indicated they were not dead early on, even though during the press conferences the Leos would not release why they felt the children were still alive, but they were/seemed confidant they were. At one point early on, they called it a kidnapping. Which usually involves being taken for ransom. Later on they changed it to Abduction if i remember correctly. Perhaps a ransom note, even fake was left near the bikes is why they called it a kidnapping and the feds were called in early. They even showed one of the mothers speaking on camera to the kidnappers to please let them go. But after awhile with no contact, they changed it to abduction and no longer believed it was a possible kidnap for ransom. Just guessing since they dinot release why they thought they were still alive.

 

[Squeeze]

Good point that there may have been evidence at the scene that they never shared publicly. I think a ransom note is not very likely.

My thought is that LE had a very good idea of who did it, just not enough proof. They need others to come forward where the perp may have mentioned something incriminating to a third party, or someone witnessed odd behavior. So if LE has strong suspicions that John Q. Public was the perp, and John Doe contacts LE and says they know a guy who is obsessed with Seven Bridges, and he was acting very strangely during that time, and his name happens to be John Q. Public, well that is a witness who was not coerced, and their testimony would hold up in court. In other words, I think LE just needs more solid evidence, in addition to what they have.

Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk

 

[margarita25]

Question, Elizabeth's and Lyric's abduction occurred before my time here at Websleuths.

Were there any other attempted abductions / missing persons / murder cases in the area prior to the girls going missing? (And afterwards, excluding Klunder's victims).

Also, how many miles is Seven Bridges from where they were last seen?

Tia!

 

[dotr]

... the stretch from Seven Bridges down to Black Hawk County, like Siggelkow Park, is not popular. Seven Bridges is about 20 miles north of Meyers Lake in Evansdale, where the cousins disappeared July 13.

“Where you would normally get in and get out I don’t think is even close to the spot where they found the girls, just from what I saw on the news with where the cars were,” he said. “I doubt kayakers would have found them.”

Sometimes paddlers get out at Seven Bridges, but not as many people start there, he said. A lot of trees in the water are difficult to navigate. Upriver, like from Iowa Highway 3 or County Road C50, are more open, according to Siefken. Paddlers also tend to prefer areas farther down toward Independence or Quasqueton.

“I think about when it’s 100 degrees during the summer, the mosquitoes are eating you alive and there are so many plants and weeds and thorny bushes, most people aren’t out tromping through the woods as much,” he said. “When deer season starts, you have a lot more people out walking.

“There hasn’t been much need to be in the woods prior to last weekend,” he added. “Just kind of dumb luck they got in just the right spot at the right time.”

The remote location is mainly used by hunters, fisherman and the occasional camper. Those searching for mushrooms frequent the area in the spring.

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_eb5c81b6-42db-11e2-b39a-001a4bcf887a.html
rbbm

 

[:+:MrTT:+:]

Friday, July 20

Meyers Lake

---

FBI agents examine the lake and determine the girls are not in the water. Authorities reclassify the case from a missing person case to an abduction. On July 21, the FBI states they believe the girls are still alive
http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...tml_c8ef29ca-d077-11e1-8635-001a4bcf887a.html

Eight day later the FBI still believe the girls are alive.

Any locals here?........The bike path is on the right. I am trying to find what route was taking to get the girls out of the area where the bikes were found. The dogs tracked the girls into the woods where the bikes were found, and not towards 20 the highway. So where the bikes were found, and the dogs tracked a scent where would the vehicle had been parked, and which way from the bikes do they go. What possible route would a vehicle had taken from the spot the bikes were at?? The girls were taken in a isolated area, hidden from the 20. Before they got to that spot they would have been riding in open area, if you follow the bike route. After looking at the bike route, I am wondering if the girls rode upon someone near where there bikes were found. But really trying to discover the route taken by a vehicle to get out of the area where the bikes were found.

One more question for any locals that was traveling on 20 the day of the abduction. On July 13th, that Friday were there any construction going on on that 20? One of the photos I seen had a caption the road was under construction. If the road was closed that day, were there anyone working on it?? Perhaps a construction worker could have been in the area and seen something but has not for whatever reason reported it. But then again you would think the FBI would have already perused that. And checked to see if any construction workers were working on that day in the general area.

 

[:+:MrTT:+:]

Friday, July 20

Meyers Lake

---

FBI agents examine the lake and determine the girls are not in the water. Authorities reclassify the case from a missing person case to an abduction. On July 21, the FBI states they believe the girls are still alive
http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...tml_c8ef29ca-d077-11e1-8635-001a4bcf887a.html

Eight day later the FBI still believe the girls are alive.

Any locals here?........The bike path is on the right. I am trying to find what route was taking to get the girls out of the area where the bikes were found. The dogs tracked the girls into the woods where the bikes were found, and not towards 20 the highway. So where the bikes were found, and the dogs tracked a scent where would the vehicle had been parked, and which way from the bikes do they go. What possible route would a vehicle had taken from the spot the bikes were at?? The girls were taken in a isolated area, hidden from the 20. Before they got to that spot they would have been riding in open area, if you follow the bike route. After looking at the bike route, I am wondering if the girls rode upon someone near where there bikes were found. But really trying to discover the route taken by a vehicle to get out of the area where the bikes were found.

One more question for any locals that was traveling on 20 the day of the abduction. On July 13th, that Friday were there any construction going on on that 20? One of the photos I seen had a caption the road was under construction. If the road was closed that day, were there anyone working on it?? Perhaps a construction worker could have been in the area and seen something but has not for whatever reason reported it. But then again you would think the FBI would have already perused that. And checked to see if any construction workers were working on that day in the general area.

See the turn around at the 380. I wonder.............Can anyone verify the girls were coming from left to right and not in the opposite direction?.............Have anyone seen the bicycles when found? I am interested in what direction the bikes where facing(front tires) in the above photos...They should have been both facing the same direction.

Did they check for any satellite images from the day of the Abduction? Anyone know? Is there anyone here, with the skill and ability to go back in time on July 13 2012 and search archives of any images that were taken on this day?

 

[Grainne Dhu]

Agree that the perp probably was familiar with the girls, but the girls may not have been particularly familiar with him, ie. a delivery guy, store clerk, gas or amusement ride attendant, stock clerk, ect.
imo. speculation.

Or school custodian, church janitor, etc. There are plenty of ways that someone who is predatory can observe a potential victim frequently without raising any suspicion at all. Unlike stalkers who want their victim to know they are under observation, a good predator finds ways to get lost in the background noise of every day life.

As I recall the profile released earlier, they think it is someone who for whatever reason is not capable of grooming his way into a child's life.

 

[Wondergirl]

Mr TT - thanks for bringing forward your old post.

FBI stated they believed the girls were alive 8 days after abduction. I guess they had no evidence to believe otherwise.

So much we don't know. Ugh

 

[Grainne Dhu]

I still feel the girls may have seen their abductor before, possibly in passing them on the street maybe even waving and saying hello. All just opinions here but I don't feel they were lured to the lake. They were riding their bikes, came in for a drink and went back out again, I think they were just having fun and being adventurous that day. I don't think the killer was waiting for them in particular, he was waiting for kids in a park where kids go when school is out. I always felt they were killed the same day and that it was a sexual crime. As far as LE stating that the girls were familiar with their killer they do not state the degree of familiarity so its hard to say if they really know something or if they are just trying to assure the public that they are working on this.

This is what seems most likely to me, as well.

Even though many seem to feel that Lyric was the primary target and Elizabeth a secondary target, I have long thought that the killer was actually targeting Elizabeth. Maybe like Dennis Rader (BTK) when he attacked the Otero family; he bound and killed 4 of the Otero family but spent the most time torturing the daughter who was only 11. I think at this point the odds for me are 60% he was after Elizabeth and 40% he was after Lyric.

If the perp was after just one of the girls, it is possible he only sexually assaulted that girl and killed the other because she was a witness.

Considering that the combination of Meyers Lake and 7 Bridges just screams local knowledge, I think it is almost 100% sure that LE has at least the name of the perp and probably has interviewed him at some point. Problem is, there are still probably thousands of possible suspects (considering the size of the metro area and the history of 7 Bridges) in the pool.

Mr TT, in previous posts, has made a good point that 22 miles is just not all that far in Iowa. In big cities, even 3 miles is a significant journey but in Iowa, things are spread out. In my misspent youth, it was nothing for me to decide to travel 35 miles for a spontaneous dinner out with friends, for example (there was this Chinese restaurant that was soooooo good and we high schoolers loved it). Planning an abduction in one site and planning the assault/murder site 22 miles away would still feel local.

 

[margarita25]

rsbm

http://iowawatch.org/2015/07/26/fal...igation-into-northeast-iowa-counsins-murders/

"Investigators also suspect that whoever did this might be following news accounts of the case."

Why do they think this? (Sorry if this has been discussed, it stands out to me, wanted to make a note before I get sidetracked.)

 

[margarita25]

This discussion brings Gabby Doolan's case comes to mind for some reason, in her case the perp knew the family...

(Again, how it can't be Klunder I don't know, but trying to move forward. I guess it's a crazy coincidence).

 

[gregjrichards]

"Investigators also suspect that whoever did this might be following news accounts of the case."

Why do they think this? (Sorry if this has been discussed, it stands out to me, wanted to make a note before I get sidetracked.)

I think this point was made just in case anyone had noticed a family member, friend or work colleague for example showing a particular interest in any developments in the case which they wouldn't normally do. Just my thoughts.

Thank you to all of you for keeping the discussion about the girl's case going. I still care about the monster(s) that did this being put behind bars and hate the fact the case has gone cold.

 

[Bootsctr]

"Investigators also suspect that whoever did this might be following news accounts of the case."

Why do they think this? (Sorry if this has been discussed, it stands out to me, wanted to make a note before I get sidetracked.)

I don't know. I would love to hear the locals' opinion of why they think LE thinks the perp/s are following this story in the news. Also, curious of thoughts on the positioning of the girls' bodies...

Here's another link: http://www.desmoinesregister.com/st...llins-lyic-cook-morrissey-evansdale/30807291/

It mentions Evelyn Miller's case and her killer, Casey Frederickson, as a reason they're not releasing the COD on the girls.

 

[carbuff]

"Investigators also suspect that whoever did this might be following news accounts of the case."

Why do they think this? (Sorry if this has been discussed, it stands out to me, wanted to make a note before I get sidetracked.)

I think because it's such a common thing for this kind of killer to do. I remember that was part of the profile for Jessica Ridgway's killer, and the Baby Doe suspect in Boston this summer.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

Any locals here?........The bike path is on the right. I am trying to find what route was taking to get the girls out of the area where the bikes were found. The dogs tracked the girls into the woods where the bikes were found, and not towards 20 the highway. So where the bikes were found, and the dogs tracked a scent where would the vehicle had been parked, and which way from the bikes do they go.

There was actually a nearly perfect abduction spot on the bike path where it made a relatively slight curve around the corner of Meyers Lake. The path was separated at that point from the lake by an eight foot chainlink fence (the same fence the girls' bikes were found leaning on). On the opposite side of the curve, there was a little patch of woods; my eyeball estimate is that it was no more than 2 acres. In that little patch of woods was a gravel dead end road that was once called Maiden Lane. Maiden Lane joined the street system at about the bend where S Evans Rd turns into Arbutus Ave. Maiden Lane has a slight curve so that a vehicle driven down to the end of the gravel cannot be seen in summer from S Evans/Arbutus.

The bike path at that point had a blind curve due to a slight rise in the path and overgrowth of the Iowa jungle. There were tall weeds and vines growing up the chainlink which helped obscure the view in the summer.

In the summer, at that one single spot on the bike path around Meyer's Lake, there was no way for someone to see that particular spot from the parking lots, etc, on the other side of the lake.

A former WS poster, Ollipop, noted that in the summer, traffic on the bike path was about 6 to 7 groups of people per hour. That's around 10 minutes apart on average, meaning that there were plenty of times for someone who knew that particular area to lie in wait and select potential victims without other witnesses to see what was happening. He said that even before the girls were abducted, it was a creepy feeling spot. My theory is that most normal people still have atavistic instincts from the time when we were as likely to be the prey as we were to be the predator and spots like that give us the creeps because our inner alarm system is on the alert for sabre-toothed tigers.

What possible route would a vehicle had taken from the spot the bikes were at??

I looked at Google Maps and chose what I thought was the most direct route. Then I asked Google Maps to suggest a route and one of the three offered was the one I had already picked, so I think the following route is fairly obvious.

My guess would be Maiden Lane to S Evans Rd to Gilbert Dr. Stay on Gilbert (crossing into the suburb of Elk Run Heights) until the junction with Hwy 281. Stay on Hwy 281 for about 20 miles and turn on N Canfield Rd. Turn on Tucson Ave. Turn on 270th St and you're there. It is the shortest, most direct route; there are several other possible routes but none of them are as direct.

One more question for any locals that was traveling on 20 the day of the abduction. On July 13th, that Friday were there any construction going on on that 20? One of the photos I seen had a caption the road was under construction. If the road was closed that day, were there anyone working on it?? Perhaps a construction worker could have been in the area and seen something but has not for whatever reason reported it. But then again you would think the FBI would have already perused that. And checked to see if any construction workers were working on that day in the general area.

There was construction going on I380/70/20 (it's all the same stretch of road with different names). All the traffic was on far side of the central divider from Meyers Lake and the construction was on the side that was closer to Meyers Lake.

I have no doubt the construction workers were questioned pretty early on, if for no other reason than that road fixing is a travelling job and LE would want to get to those workers before they moved on. Nothing has been reported in the media about the construction workers, so I'm guessing they didn't see anything.

Since that happened, I got in touch with an old friend who had a summer job as a flagger (the person who regulates traffic if needed). They wouldn't have needed flaggers for that particular day since all the traffic was shunted to the other side of the road and there was no lane sharing but his comments were enlightening anyway. He said he'd be surprised if anyone working the construction that day saw a thing because it is a highly dangerous job, particularly for the workers on foot. It involves heavy machinery with limited visibility plus light vehicles ferrying people up and down the construction area because the area tends to spread out. The heavy vehicles are usually (not always) slow but the light vehicles tend to go faster, you can definitely feel the wind whip when they pass you. Everyone is in a hurry, from the head of the company to the foremen and down because there's usually penalties in the contracts for missing the various deadlines.

Construction in general is the 4th most dangerous job in the US (more dangerous than the military as a private first class, police or fire fighting), so it's not the job for those who like to take some time to smell the roses. He figured that workers don't have much awareness of anything going on more than about 10 feet outside of the construction zone and most of their concentration is focused on where they are in relationship to all the construction machines. He said it's like a dance where you do it on the hottest days of the year, wearing boots and a hard hat, often carrying equipment, in triple time and missing a step can mean a catastrophic injury if you are lucky.

After talking to him, I was pretty convinced that the construction workers probably had nothing to report.

 

[Bootsctr]

Law enforcement has said the person who killed the girls could still be in the Cedar Valley, but knows the Seven Bridges Area really well.

Cedar Valley CrimeStoppers is offering a $20,500 reward.

If you have any information, call 319-232-6682 or 855-300-TIPS 8477.

http://www.kwwl.com/story/29537704/...y-of-kidnappingmurder-parents-visit-7-bridges

 

[Bootsctr]

Did the killer spread the bodies apart from each other because they would be less likely to be found? This might demonstrate some research on the killer/s' part in disposing of the bodies. It would seem someone who had killed before would know to spread the bodies out, but a first kill of 2 people they might have just left the bodies together and covered with brush. I think whomever committed this crime is following the story because they are local. I agree with Grainne Dhu that Elizabeth was the primary target, and the perp might have already been questioned in regards to the case. Then again he/they may not have popped onto LE's radar yet.

ETA: Did the killer/s want to put the bodies in the river, but because of the drought and low water levels they abandoned that idea and left them on land?

 

[24Roses]

Hi I always have a hard time finding the girls' thread on here lately but I'm now catching up. After reading that LE think it is someone known to the girls, I still think it is someone from their church or school, most likely Elizabeth's. I have actually always thought that but Lyric's parent's issues have always thrown me off a little. I think if they ever do solve this (and I pray everyday they do), that it is going to be someone that nobody would ever think could do something like that to 2 little girls.