Found Deceased IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #37

[threecrazykids]

Body found in Cedar River identified as missing Waterloo student Moe Sed

http://www.kwwl.com/story/30714423/...-river-identified-as-missing-waterloo-student

While the family can now get some closure, it's still not the outcome everyone was hoping for.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

Just wondering if Heather thinks Lyric was to blame. She seems to indicate that Elizabeth was frightened....and that Lyric's face was only small, not frightened so much. Very weird, this family.

I think she is trying to put into words something that no mother or aunt should have to think about. I think she stumbles around a bit in trying to say what she's thinking and doesn't always have the perfect words. I wouldn't do half as well as she does if something happened to my niece or one of my nephews. Just the thought of something like that happening to one of them has the tears in my eyes.

 

[Bootsctr]

So depressing to hear about Moe Sed and so depressing we don't have the killer of Lyric and Lizzy.

I figured LE knew the COD for the girls from the time of the autopsy. It might have been obvious right from the beginning to whomever stumbled upon the bodies, especially if it was blunt force trauma to the head/skull. It makes me so angry to think about 2 little creeps/pervs getting away with their murders, or even 1 little creep/pervert getting away with 2 murders. Someone has to be deflecting attention away from the guilty one(s). Somebody knows darn it! Meyers Lake (Evansdale) + Seven Bridges = killer/s.

 

[Foxfire]

Originally Posted by JanetElaine
http://www.kwwl.com/story/30694357/...investigators-stay-positive-after-three-years

<snipped from article & BBM for Focus>

Three years after their little bodies were found, lead DCI investigator Mike Roehrkasse says they try to stay positive.

"We know there's still a lot of work that can be done so we haven't hit a dead end," said Roehrkasse.

He says they continue to investigate, bringing in local experts, FBI agents, and experts from the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children.

"It's not so much consistent work. It's more bring people in, work several leads and go through those leads and do it all over again," said Roehrkasse.

Heather and Drew Collins believe the girls were killed the same day they were abducted, but they don't know how the girls were killed.

"It's something we know, and very few of even the officers know. We don't let that get out. And it's something that the person responsible knows," said Roehrkasse.

___

'Glad investigator Mike Roehrkasse, is staying positive after three years of the mis-investigation that began on the first day of EC & LC's abduction'.. Sadly, I am not so optimistic..
Even after three years of silence and misinformation by investigators, adhering to the antiquated close to the vest investigative strategy, and squandering their most valuable resource; the American public. Investigators continue to hold information, COD, etc., close to the vest, increasing the probability that this case will be buried, as is the person likely responsible for the girl's abduction and murders, along with the many other missing/murdered person's cold cases prior. jmo

 

[nikb]

Just wondering if Heather thinks Lyric was to blame. She seems to indicate that Elizabeth was frightened....and that Lyric's face was only small, not frightened so much. Very weird, this family.

I kind of took it to mean that she was probably more familiar with her daughter's face, she could probably picture her fear and trauma much more clearly (and frankly probably has nightmares about it) moreso than Lyric's face, even though Lyric was her niece.

 

[dotr]

Are there m/any French speaking people in Iowa?
Thinking of 9 year old Cedrika Provencher, who went missing whilst riding her bike and whose remains, were finally located this weekend in Quebec by 3 hunters, fwiw.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...er-9-Trois-Rivieres-Quebec-31-July-2007/page8

 

[Grainne Dhu]

Are there m/any French speaking people in Iowa?
Thinking of 9 year old Cedrika Provencher, who went missing whilst riding her bike and whose remains, were finally located this weekend in Quebec by 3 hunters, fwiw.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...er-9-Trois-Rivieres-Quebec-31-July-2007/page8

There are individuals who speak French in Iowa but no areas where French is predominant as either a first or second language, like there are for Meskwaki (the Meskwaki settlement and the area around Tama), German variant (Mennonites and Amana), Czech and Slovak (Cedar Rapids), Dutch (Pella), Norwegian (Decorah) and Spanish (Muscatine).

 

[dotr]

This news link was posted in the above mentioned thread concerning the little girl Cedrika Provencher, whose remains were recently found in a Quebec forest.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...-death-of-cedrika-provencher/article27745271/

Experts say the discovery of the girl&#8217;s remains mark a significant breakthrough in the investigation. Police are probably looking for the main burial site of the body, which would help them advance their inquiry, said Frank Crispino, director of the forensic sciences research lab at the University of Quebec in Trois-Rivières.

Prof. Crispino said it&#8217;s highly unlikely that DNA evidence would have survived the years and vagaries of weather. However, other clues could surface. The way the body was left &#8211; its position, whether it was thrown or buried &#8211; could yield signs about the killer&#8217;s behaviour or familiarity with the area. Bones could show evidence of violence that point to how she was killed.

Finally, the location of the body could help trace the killer&#8217;s access route into the forest. Police would then use the information when interrogating their list of suspects.

 

[Wondergirl]

This news link was posted in the above mentioned thread concerning the little girl Cedrika Provencher, whose remains were recently found in a Quebec forest.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...-death-of-cedrika-provencher/article27745271/

Excellent point of reference, Dotr. That is an interesting, and relevant statement by LE on a similar type of recovery location to our girls.

Thank-you for posting it.

 

[Wondergirl]

The mayor, Mr. Bruneau, said the forest where the remains were found is out of the way, and few frequent the area besides hunters. “No one goes there. It takes someone who knows the site,” the mayor said.

Not that I really think there is any connection between these 2 cases, but, really, how many child murderers are out there anyway? [emoji35]

 

[Grainne Dhu]

Not that I really think there is any connection between these 2 cases, but, really, how many child murderers are out there anyway? [emoji35]

Not that many. It just seems like there are more, at least in the US, because of how the news media has grown in the last 50 years. When I was a teen (late 1960s/early 1970s), two sisters in my area were out jogging one morning and they were dragged into a corn field, one was raped and the other pistol whipped into a coma that lasted nearly a week. I knew about it because the family were close friends of my family. It got barely a paragraph in the local newspaper, which meant that it wasn't picked up by AP or UP, which meant it didn't make it to the TV news, etc. It got a slightly longer mention when the police arrested a suspect in the case and there was no mention when the suspect was released due to lack of evidence (this was, needless to say, way before DNA).

Statistically, violent crime has been on an overall downward trend in the last 40 years and violent crimes against children are also either on the decline or holding steady (abductions by strangers has been at about the same level of 115 per year for a long, long time).

I think the lack of media coverage was wrong before but I'm not sure that the proliferation of scare stories is any better. Certainly children are suffering for it because they are no longer as physically active as children were 40 years ago even though the risks to children are either lower or at the same level as 40 years ago.

 

[carbuff]

And most child murderers seem to be family members, like Baby Bella in Boston this summer. Drugs, abuse, poverty, the deadly triangle...

 

[Bootsctr]

I agree that complete stranger abductions of children are more rare. I believe Lyric and Lizzy had a very large support group of family members as compared to Baby Bella. She had no one... literally.

I do believe, however, the girls were killed because they could identify who had taken them. Thinking back to November of this year, a 9-year-old boy was executed as a result of gang violence. No, I don't believe Dan was a gang member, BUT the company he kept was certainly questionable. In reading the article about Tyshawn Lee, it reminded me of Dan's comments and what was being reported....

"Tyshawn Lee was lured into an alley and executed Monday, Chicago police said Thursday. His father, Pierre Stokes, reportedly a member of the Gangster Disciples gang, is not cooperating with police."

"The child’s father, Pierre Stokes, has disagreed with authorities’ characterization of him and said he’s easy to find. He hasn’t talked about whether he’s a gang member but said police have spent more time pursuing him than finding out who killed his son.

“I answered every question they asked me,” he told reporters Thursday not far from the spot his son was killed. “They’re not asking me questions that I know. I don’t know the questions that they asked me.”

http://www.missopen.com/news/boy-executed-over-fathers-gang-ties-in-chicago/
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I believe 2 have been arrested and charged in Tyshawn's senseless murder, and no it wasn't his father.

I never felt Dan was refusing to cooperate with the authorities. He didn't want to give up his cell phone, but the minute he refused to give up his cell phone, the word was "he isn't cooperating." In the end, he gave up the cell phone and as per Wilma, "ratted on a lot of people." I'm sure the girls were already dead by the time Dan was arrested.

The way I see it though, if it was about drugs in Waterloo or Black Hawk County, I believe Dan, himself, would have been executed. Let's remember this happened not in Waterloo, not on Dan's turf, and not really on Lyric's turf. This happened in Evansdale, Elizabeth's turf, where she was reported to roam further than known by her parents riding her bike. I cannot stop believing that whomever did this was in Evansdale and spotted them riding their bikes that morning. Maybe Lizzy went to the street where the lawn-watering guy lived because that's where her friends were, but a quick run through on their bikes proved her friends to not be home. Somebody somewhere between Lizzy's home and their ride through the neighborhood attracted someone. I don't know if the girls decided to go to the lake on their own, or if they were lured there, or if their bikes were just placed at the lake. I think somehow the girls did end up getting trapped there, just like Dan said. Lizzy was forced to leave her purse behind and they were taken to the vehicle. Perhaps dragged kicking and screaming only their mouths were covered by the perp's hands, so the screams were never heard. I almost feel like the girls were chased there in an attempt to escape whomever was pursuing them.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Boots - someone would've seen or heard something.

Also they were seen happily biking that way by multiple people and cctv

It is still unexplained why they were going there in the first place

Find that answer and you solve the case imo

 

[SapphireSteel]

Three years after their little bodies were found, lead DCI investigator Mike Roehrkasse says they try to stay positive.

"We know there's still a lot of work that can be done so we haven't hit a dead end," said Roehrkasse.

He says they continue to investigate, bringing in local experts, FBI agents, and experts from the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children.

"It's not so much consistent work. It's more bring people in, work several leads and go through those leads and do it all over again," said Roehrkasse.

Heather and Drew Collins believe the girls were killed the same day they were abducted, but they don't know how the girls were killed.

"It's something we know, and very few of even the officers know. We don't let that get out. And it's something that the person responsible knows," said Roehrkasse.

http://www.kwwl.com/story/30694357/...investigators-stay-positive-after-three-years

Thoughts:

1. They are still actively investigating, never stopped

2. Sounds like they are focusing on The Same Leads over and over again - ie, they have a pool of suspects

3. Heather and Drew think the girls were killed on the day

4. Only a tiny group of Detectives are privy to the Investigation; even the parents kept away from Details.

5. sounds like they have Too Many Suspects rather than None. :jail:

 

[Bootsctr]

Boots - someone would've seen or heard something.

Also they were seen happily biking that way by multiple people and cctv

It is still unexplained why they were going there in the first place

Find that answer and you solve the case imo

So true! Someone knows, but I think extracting that answer would be like getting blood from a turnip! Surely, LE has some inkling of why the girls were headed toward the lake... Again, blood from a turnip!

 

[SapphireSteel]

So true! Someone knows, but I think extracting that answer would be like getting blood from a turnip! Surely, LE has some inkling of why the girls were headed toward the lake... Again, blood from a turnip!

They do, oh they do

if nothing else that article says that much

they have leads - too many leads - they just keep checking and rechecking

too many cooks in the (meth) kitchen if you pardon the pun.

heh.

 

[Bootsctr]

I know.... I am curious as to how far Lizzy lived from Aunt Tammy. How did Lyric get her bike that day? Was it staying at Lizzy's house?

 

[threecrazykids]

I know.... I am curious as to how far Lizzy lived from Aunt Tammy. How did Lyric get her bike that day? Was it staying at Lizzy's house?

I've been assuming the bike was just always at Elizabeth's house. If memory serves me correctly Tammy mentioned something about her getting Lyric the bike, or it was a bike of her's that Lyric borrowed...something like that. But I believe it stayed at the Collins' because Lyric went there every day with Wylma. She mentioned they'd rode their bikes around all the time so I sort of assumed there was a bike there that Lyric rode regularly. I can't imagine dragging a bike from one house to the other every single day...it makes more sense to me to just have one where she rode it daily (which I assumed was with Lizzy).

 

[carbuff]

I've been assuming the bike was just always at Elizabeth's house. If memory serves me correctly Tammy mentioned something about her getting Lyric the bike, or it was a bike of her's that Lyric borrowed...something like that. But I believe it stayed at the Collins' because Lyric went there every day with Wylma. She mentioned they'd rode their bikes around all the time so I sort of assumed there was a bike there that Lyric rode regularly. I can't imagine dragging a bike from one house to the other every single day...it makes more sense to me to just have one where she rode it daily (which I assumed was with Lizzy).

Yeah, that's what I thought, too.