Found Deceased IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #37

[Grainne Dhu]

I have just read that the remains of little Jacob Wetterling have been found after 27 years. My heart aches for his mom Patty, who never gave up hope that he was alive somewhere. It made me think about Elizabeth and Lyric. I am grateful that at least their families know where their girls are. Now if we could only learn what happened to them and who did it!

There's a lesson to be learned from Jacob's case.

For years, there was a suspect in the case based solely on the fact that he lived on the farm opposite the place where Jacob was abducted. I'm not going to name him because he has been subjected to serious harassment for the last ten years, to the point where it was affecting his mental health. I never thought he was the perp because his story made sense to me but to many people, particularly those unfamiliar with dairy farming, he was the obvious perp. The things said about him just on WS got so disturbing to me that I stopped reading the threads dedicated to Jacob; I just couldn't take it. It's one thing to state that Person X could have done it but the things said went way beyond that.

There are a whole bunch of people who owe that man an apology. Sadly, I doubt that even one person will do so.

Sometimes I worry that something similar is happening in this case because I doubt there's more one or perhaps two perps but there are way more people than that who have been speculated about.

 

[Wondergirl]

There's a lesson to be learned from Jacob's case.

For years, there was a suspect in the case based solely on the fact that he lived on the farm opposite the place where Jacob was abducted. I'm not going to name him because he has been subjected to serious harassment for the last ten years, to the point where it was affecting his mental health. I never thought he was the perp because his story made sense to me but to many people, particularly those unfamiliar with dairy farming, he was the obvious perp. The things said about him just on WS got so disturbing to me that I stopped reading the threads dedicated to Jacob; I just couldn't take it. It's one thing to state that Person X could have done it but the things said went way beyond that.

There are a whole bunch of people who owe that man an apology. Sadly, I doubt that even one person will do so.

Sometimes I worry that something similar is happening in this case because I doubt there's more one or perhaps two perps but there are way more people than that who have been speculated about.

You are probably right.

Lynch mobbing comes to mind.

 

[Marilynilpa]

There's a lesson to be learned from Jacob's case.

For years, there was a suspect in the case based solely on the fact that he lived on the farm opposite the place where Jacob was abducted. I'm not going to name him because he has been subjected to serious harassment for the last ten years, to the point where it was affecting his mental health. I never thought he was the perp because his story made sense to me but to many people, particularly those unfamiliar with dairy farming, he was the obvious perp. The things said about him just on WS got so disturbing to me that I stopped reading the threads dedicated to Jacob; I just couldn't take it. It's one thing to state that Person X could have done it but the things said went way beyond that.

There are a whole bunch of people who owe that man an apology. Sadly, I doubt that even one person will do so.

Sometimes I worry that something similar is happening in this case because I doubt there's more one or perhaps two perps but there are way more people than that who have been speculated about.

This case is different, to me, than any case I have followed over the years. The meth connection to some members of one family kind of colors my opinion about what might have happened. But I don't have a particular suspect in mind, and I'm sure I am not the only one who feels this way.

I hope if any of us gets too vocal about one person or another, a moderator will be alerted and put a stop to it. JMO.

As a side note, I am currently battling a brain tumor so I would appreciate your thoughts and/or prayers. Thanks.

 

[dotr]

This case is different, to me, than any case I have followed over the years. The meth connection to some members of one family kind of colors my opinion about what might have happened. But I don't have a particular suspect in mind, and I'm sure I am not the only one who feels this way.

I hope if any of us gets too vocal about one person or another, a moderator will be alerted and put a stop to it. JMO.

As a side note, I am currently battling a brain tumor so I would appreciate your thoughts and/or prayers. Thanks.

Dear Marilynilpa, Very sad and sorry to learn of your health problem.
Wishing you all the strength and little foot soldiers within your very being, to help fight that tumor.
Warm thoughts and hope for healing hands, sent your way.
:heart:

 

[carbuff]

Oh no! Sending healing thoughts and much love.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[gregjrichards]

This case is different, to me, than any case I have followed over the years. The meth connection to some members of one family kind of colors my opinion about what might have happened. But I don't have a particular suspect in mind, and I'm sure I am not the only one who feels this way.

I hope if any of us gets too vocal about one person or another, a moderator will be alerted and put a stop to it. JMO.

As a side note, I am currently battling a brain tumor so I would appreciate your thoughts and/or prayers. Thanks.

I'm very sorry to hear you are fighting a brave battle health wise. I hope you don't mind but I have started a prayer thread for you in the power of prayer section of the forum. This will allow us to provide prayers and messages of support to you. You are a much loved and respected member of the forum and I'm sure I speak for all of us in sending my best wishes to you. Please let us know how you are doing. I will be praying for you, Bessie and Bessie's husband. Take care and Best Wishes, Graham

 

[Marilynilpa]

I'm very sorry to hear you are fighting a brave battle health wise. I hope you don't mind but I have started a prayer thread for you in the power of prayer section of the forum. This will allow us to provide prayers and messages of support to you. You are a much loved and respected member of the forum and I'm sure I speak for all of us in sending my best wishes to you. Please let us know how you are doing. I will be praying for you, Bessie and Bessie's husband. Take care and Best Wishes, Graham

Thanks for your kind words! I did not know about the WS section you referred to. I will definitely check it out.

 

[Betty P]

There's a lesson to be learned from Jacob's case.

For years, there was a suspect in the case based solely on the fact that he lived on the farm opposite the place where Jacob was abducted. I'm not going to name him because he has been subjected to serious harassment for the last ten years, to the point where it was affecting his mental health. I never thought he was the perp because his story made sense to me but to many people, particularly those unfamiliar with dairy farming, he was the obvious perp. The things said about him just on WS got so disturbing to me that I stopped reading the threads dedicated to Jacob; I just couldn't take it. It's one thing to state that Person X could have done it but the things said went way beyond that.

There are a whole bunch of people who owe that man an apology. Sadly, I doubt that even one person will do so.

Sometimes I worry that something similar is happening in this case because I doubt there's more one or perhaps two perps but there are way more people than that who have been speculated about.

I had the same thoughts when hearing of the discovery of Jacob. What a terrible thing to have put that innocent man through. We really do have to be careful in who we accuse in these cases. In this case, didn't LE come out with a statement indicating both sets of parents had been cleared?

 

[Grainne Dhu]

This case is different, to me, than any case I have followed over the years. The meth connection to some members of one family kind of colors my opinion about what might have happened. But I don't have a particular suspect in mind, and I'm sure I am not the only one who feels this way.

I hope if any of us gets too vocal about one person or another, a moderator will be alerted and put a stop to it. JMO.

As a side note, I am currently battling a brain tumor so I would appreciate your thoughts and/or prayers. Thanks.

Marilynilpa, I am sending thoughts for healing and fast recovery your way.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

I had the same thoughts when hearing of the discovery of Jacob. What a terrible thing to have put that innocent man through. We really do have to be careful in who we accuse in these cases. In this case, didn't LE come out with a statement indicating both sets of parents had been cleared?

Law enforcement has been kind of equivocal; as best as I can recall, they've said that the immediate families are not suspects but at other times LE has said words to the effect that they have not ruled anyone out.

For me, it is that sort of ambiguity that makes solving murder cases so imperative. Statistically, prevention isn't such a big concern because the overwhelming majority of murderers never kill again. Yes, there are serial and spree murderers but compared to the overall population of murderers, they are very rare (and the percentage of people who commit even one murder is very tiny). The big problem is the cloud of suspicion that falls on the innocent who just happen to have almost any sort of connection to the victim. Statistically, most murder victims are killed by someone they know (household member, close friend, acquaintance, etc). It is those innocent people who are accused, if only in the court of public opinion, who most need the case to be solved.

It has already happened in this case, in my humble opinion. Someone became a suspect because of what I believe to be a random coincidence; there were some negative effects on the business he used to own and still worked at part time plus the social effects of being suspected. In a way, it was very frustrating. 'If you see something, say something' is a message LE is trying hard to get out to people but when innocent people say something it is all too easy for them to become suspects in popular imagination, which tends to make innocent people think twice about saying something.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

I've been reading a bit about the Jacob Wetterling case again, since it is pretty clear the perp has been caught.

For those who think it would be really difficult to control two girls, consider the Jacob Wetterling case. The perp in that case had no problems at all controlling Jacob (11), his brother (10) and his friend (11). He had a gun and the three boys were instantly terrified and compliant. I saw an interview with the friend several years ago and I will never forget the terror in his voice when he described that night, even though he was fully grown with kids of his own when he was interviewed.

My point being that it is not that difficult to control more than one child at a time. The fact that they were abducted together does not necessarily indicate they knew the perp in any way.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

I just read an article at http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2016/09/13/jared-scheierl-joy-baker-wetterling/?e=vbC3*LOiaACTOA&utm_source=email&utm_medium=email&utm_content=11427&utm_campaign=daily-news-headlines-recommended--46 about the roles that Joy Baker, a blogger, and Jared Scheierl, a survivor of a previous attack by Danny Heinrich, played in pushing the FBI to do a cold case review of Jacob Wetterling's case.

Having followed Joy's blog since 2011, I am convinced that she was the driving force in putting the case together. Law enforcement never put Mr Sheierl's abduction and assault together with the eight previous assaults in Paynesville. It's hard to say for sure now but at least a couple of the other victims felt that the police did not take their reports seriously. It was a situation where most of the 8 to 15 year old boys in the area knew there was a molester running around loose but adults, including LE, just didn't seem to understand. Joy was able to put out the word that she wanted to talk to other victims and would hold their information as privately or as publicly as each victim preferred.

Joy was contacted by Dan Rassler, who lived on the farm where Jacob was last seen alive. Mr Rassler had been treated disgracefully by LE (and I hope he sues the heck out of the various agencies that put him and his family through a cloud of suspicion for nearly 10 years). His only condition? He wanted Joy to publish his entire story on her blog, not just cherry pick the bits that made him appear guilty; LE strategy in regard to Mr Rassler seems to have had a policy of releasing bits and pieces of his statements taken out of context to make him appear guilty to support a truly outlandish theory of the case (really, it makes every WebSleuths theory in every single case on the forum seem pretty tame).

People trusted Joy because she promised to tell as much or as little of their stories as they wanted and she lived up to her pledge time after time. Each time she treated a victim or possible witness with kindness and respect, other victims and possible witnesses felt like maybe they could trust her enough to come forward to her.

Eventually, she was the fuse that blew the case open.

I do think that we need a Joy Baker for our girls, to re-interview witnesses and maybe even find out if there were other victims in the area who had been afraid to come forward or who had come forward but gotten the brush off by LE.

 

[Fukiyama]

Grainne Dhu, what do you think of ELOCsoul and his book?

 

[Marilynilpa]

I completely agree with you, Grainne Dhu. I think there is info that has been discounted by LE that, when put together, might open up new avenues of investigation. Periodically, LE has asked the public to come forward with info, but if that info was not acted on, it's useless. JMO

 

[Wondergirl]

I just read an article at http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2016/09/13/jared-scheierl-joy-baker-wetterling/?e=vbC3*LOiaACTOA&utm_source=email&utm_medium=email&utm_content=11427&utm_campaign=daily-news-headlines-recommended--46 about the roles that Joy Baker, a blogger, and Jared Scheierl, a survivor of a previous attack by Danny Heinrich, played in pushing the FBI to do a cold case review of Jacob Wetterling's case.

Having followed Joy's blog since 2011, I am convinced that she was the driving force in putting the case together. Law enforcement never put Mr Sheierl's abduction and assault together with the eight previous assaults in Paynesville. It's hard to say for sure now but at least a couple of the other victims felt that the police did not take their reports seriously. It was a situation where most of the 8 to 15 year old boys in the area knew there was a molester running around loose but adults, including LE, just didn't seem to understand. Joy was able to put out the word that she wanted to talk to other victims and would hold their information as privately or as publicly as each victim preferred.

Joy was contacted by Dan Rassler, who lived on the farm where Jacob was last seen alive. Mr Rassler had been treated disgracefully by LE (and I hope he sues the heck out of the various agencies that put him and his family through a cloud of suspicion for nearly 10 years). His only condition? He wanted Joy to publish his entire story on her blog, not just cherry pick the bits that made him appear guilty; LE strategy in regard to Mr Rassler seems to have had a policy of releasing bits and pieces of his statements taken out of context to make him appear guilty to support a truly outlandish theory of the case (really, it makes every WebSleuths theory in every single case on the forum seem pretty tame).

People trusted Joy because she promised to tell as much or as little of their stories as they wanted and she lived up to her pledge time after time. Each time she treated a victim or possible witness with kindness and respect, other victims and possible witnesses felt like maybe they could trust her enough to come forward to her.

Eventually, she was the fuse that blew the case open.

I do think that we need a Joy Baker for our girls, to re-interview witnesses and maybe even find out if there were other victims in the area who had been afraid to come forward or who had come forward but gotten the brush off by LE.

Can you ask Joy to help our girls case?

 

[Grainne Dhu]

Grainne Dhu, what do you think of ELOCsoul and his book?

Haven't read it. Is that the book that points right at Danny Heinrich?

 

[Grainne Dhu]

I completely agree with you, Grainne Dhu. I think there is info that has been discounted by LE that, when put together, might open up new avenues of investigation. Periodically, LE has asked the public to come forward with info, but if that info was not acted on, it's useless. JMO

Many years ago, I was having outpatient surgery and left my service dog with my parents to care for just for that day. My service dog and I were closely bonded... too closely bonded and he took off to look for me. He was loose for 10 days and no one could catch him. Many dogs go feral, some incredibly quickly (a matter of hours) but I was sure my boy had not gone feral because he was approaching children. He just didn't want any adult humans to get in his way on his mission to find me. When I finally managed to put myself where he could hear me, he came to me like a bolt.

That experience really showed me yet again that children live in a parallel world to adults. My dog's breeder came (over 1000 miles) to help look for him and, being in her 70s, she was old enough that people did not feel threatened by a nice grandmother talking to kids. That's who kept getting reports of a 'big' dog (he was actually only 60 pounds but to a child that's big) who would come up to various children and play with them. He radiated gentleness and love, even children who were afraid of dogs were never afraid of him. For nearly a month after he made his way back to me, I would get phone calls from people who had seen the flyers or TV spots, saying that their child had told them that a big brown dog had visited them; the child just hadn't thought to mention it at the time. These were all children in the 8 to 12 year old range, young enough to read as a child to my dog, old enough to play at home without constant supervision.

From that experience, I think someone who had time, who didn't have the whole "I am a POLICE OFFICER and you are making an official statement" vibe, etc, might find out some surprising stuff by interviewing kids around Lyric and Elizabeth's ages. Someone a kid (or recent kid) could confide in without fear of unwanted repercussions.

I think it is easier for people to talk to and say things that they feel might be viewed skeptically to someone who is not official in any way and who is willing to observe whatever level of anonymity a witness may desire.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

Can you ask Joy to help our girls case?

I'm willing to try.

Now is not the time, though. Joy was in the courtroom when Danny Heinrich testified under oath and she is still reeling from that experience. She recently mentioned on her blog that she is still crying every day over what she heard in the courtroom. I just don't think she's in any emotional condition to embark on what would be another heart wrenching project yet. She needs some time to recover.

 

[Wondergirl]

Many years ago, I was having outpatient surgery and left my service dog with my parents to care for just for that day. My service dog and I were closely bonded... too closely bonded and he took off to look for me. He was loose for 10 days and no one could catch him. Many dogs go feral, some incredibly quickly (a matter of hours) but I was sure my boy had not gone feral because he was approaching children. He just didn't want any adult humans to get in his way on his mission to find me. When I finally managed to put myself where he could hear me, he came to me like a bolt.

That experience really showed me yet again that children live in a parallel world to adults. My dog's breeder came (over 1000 miles) to help look for him and, being in her 70s, she was old enough that people did not feel threatened by a nice grandmother talking to kids. That's who kept getting reports of a 'big' dog (he was actually only 60 pounds but to a child that's big) who would come up to various children and play with them. He radiated gentleness and love, even children who were afraid of dogs were never afraid of him. For nearly a month after he made his way back to me, I would get phone calls from people who had seen the flyers or TV spots, saying that their child had told them that a big brown dog had visited them; the child just hadn't thought to mention it at the time. These were all children in the 8 to 12 year old range, young enough to read as a child to my dog, old enough to play at home without constant supervision.

From that experience, I think someone who had time, who didn't have the whole "I am a POLICE OFFICER and you are making an official statement" vibe, etc, might find out some surprising stuff by interviewing kids around Lyric and Elizabeth's ages. Someone a kid (or recent kid) could confide in without fear of unwanted repercussions.

I think it is easier for people to talk to and say things that they feel might be viewed skeptically to someone who is not official in any way and who is willing to observe whatever level of anonymity a witness may desire.

I totally agree with you in this, and it's not just children who react to a police officer's uniform.

Thank-you for sharing you're service dog story.

 

[Fukiyama]

Haven't read it. Is that the book that points right at Danny Heinrich?

If you'd like to borrow my copy, let me know. I live in IC. PM me if you want.