IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #4

[Shelby2]

I am going off gut instinct only and given the dynamics of the lake. I truly think that if the parents thought for one second they were there they would have indicated as much (or at least ONE of the family members). Thinking along the lines of the family wondering why it has taken so long to get the divers there, pressing for a faster search of the lake, more in depth, etc.
They seem adamant that they aren't there and if they go off of the LE original statement of "just because the bikes and purse were found there does NOT mean the girls themselves were there" they could be clinging to that given the girls record of always coming home when they were suppose to. I don't know...

Again, I go back to my question a few posts back...could the dogs have been trailing a scent of the girls that could have been ON the abductor back into the woods or off the bikes, and not the girls themselves? Could the trail of the scent back into the woods be where the bikes were brought back INTO the trail to be dumped...from the back side, since it stopped there?

This is where I get confused, especially when one of the moms said their scent was picked up at the edge of the lake?! But they are certain they are not there???
http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/17/us/iowa-missing-cousins/index.html

 

[Mjskit]

Maybe they are suspicious of DM because he said he was napping, but yet his cell phone records indicated he was on the phone multiple times? Something like that would appear suspicious to the police.

Seems to me he could have been calling everyone he knew to ask if they had seen the girls. I know I sure called most everyone on my road - whether I personally knew them or not - when my grandkids were missing.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Didn't someone on here state one of her doll making friends was the handler of one of the dogs? And that she hadn't leaked much information, but that her dog was a cadaver dog?

I remember her posting that as well. It was probably a couple of threads ago.

 

[Pensfan]

Thank you and blessings to the FBI searchers today. (It has to be hotter than Hell in those wet suits.)

 

[threecrazykids]

bbm
Oriah would know this answer. What thread is she/he following lately? Let's beg him/her to come over here.

The only reason I was wondering is because someone had said she had been trailed by a dog before and the dog lost the scent because she had doubled back on her route.


If the dog went from the water/bikes (still to be confirmed) BACK towards the woods, would they have been trailing to where the bikes/girls came IN?

I guess I don't know where the dog scent test began. Did it begin on the side of the lake where someone would "assume" they would enter if they were taking a normal route?

Or did they start the search directly over by where the bikes were found?

:banghead:

 

[Soulmagent]

Here are Kermit and Animal flip flops in men's sizes at Wal-Mart:
http://www.muppetcentral.com/forum/threads/kermit-and-animal-mens-flip-flops-at-wal-mart.50763/

Hope I got the picture in right!

Men in Flip flops and they are cartoons!

:maddening: Did you read the postings!

Who is doing the yard work? MOM?

 

[Mjskit]

Good point. If that's the case then they should be getting phone records and pings (if they haven't already).

If it pinged at the lake that would be enough to suspect him.

That would depend on the time of the pings. IMO Wasn't DM there at the park when LE was called? I am under the impression ALL the family gathered there.

 

[threecrazykids]

Thank you and blessings to the FBI searchers today. (It has to be hotter than Hell in those wet suits.)

Thankfully the weather here is actually very "chilly" compared to the last 2 weeks. It's only 69 out right now!:woohoo:

 

[Soulmagent]

The only reason I was wondering is because someone had said she had been trailed by a dog before and the dog lost the scent because she had doubled back on her route.


If the dog went from the water/bikes (still to be confirmed) BACK towards the woods, would they have been trailing to where the bikes/girls came IN?

I guess I don't know where the dog scent test began. Did it begin on the side of the lake where someone would "assume" they would enter if they were taking a normal route?

Or did they start the search directly over by where the bikes were found?

:banghead:

Here ya go
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8168394&postcount=664

I wondered what kind of day Writer was having there myself...:floorlaugh:

 

[Wanting2Help]

http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/update-the-hunt-for-lyric-and-elizabeth-continues-today/article_8e1533ec-d128-11e1-af57-0019bb2963f4.html?mode=image

 

[Imacuriousgeorge]

But wasn't it stated their scent was picked up "lakeside"?

http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-iowa-girls-fbi-dogs-detect-cousins-scents/story?id=16798151

This link states their scent was picked up near the bikes but states LE didn't provide any additional details.

 

[sweetpea33]

the search has not been halted, only the use of the volunteers. Sometimes volunteers only have the authority to search where they did, the 12 square miles of trails, cornfields, etc. LE is still actively searching. A volunteer cannot search a house, for example. Some searches can only be conducted by LE.

true that civilians cannot search private property without consent, and it is true that the investigation was not halted, but believe me there is way more than 12 acres of trails and cornfields etc that could be searched. as I stated before the trails run from town to town to town...quite a few of them connecting. In fact i could ride my bike from Cedar Falls to Waterloo to Evansdale to without leaving the Nature Trail. and as far as corn fields, woods, parks, lakes, streams, ditches...they are everywhere.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I don't think all RSOs are required to wear ankle bracelets, unless they are on parole or probation. It could be different in Iowa though, I am not sure.
But still, if they don't know where the girls disappeared from, and don't know where they are at now, would knowing where a RSO was that day help eliminate them?

I think it's fair to assume that many of the RSOs could be cleared quickly because it was during normal business hours and many of them were working.

It would be a lot harder to clear people if the two girls had disappeared from the home at 2 am. That would be a nightmare of a chore.

 

[MagnoliaMom]

I thought the flip flops were purple?

The flip flops possibly?
http://www.muppetcentral.com/forum/threads/kermit-and-animal-mens-flip-flops-at-wal-mart.50763/

 

[Ms Pragmatic]

I don't think anyone stated or was suggesting all searches stopped. I was simply stating that 1000 people can cover much more territory than a few dozen LE. I'm looking at other cases and see that the searches lasted much, much longer.

 

[sweetpea33]

I have a hunch that the person responsible probably knew the children or knew of them having seen them around. The chances that a stranger just happening along and then absconded with the girls seems slim but does happen I suppose in rare cases.

it was mentioned om WS earlier that the tracking dogs got the girls scent and then sniffed the relatives - this was probably to discover if any heavy or otherwise scent of the girls was on a relative - maybe even the death scent - just a guess as I don't know the training any of the dogs. The dogs probably came up with nil. Maybe even someone in the area had seen the children and followed them - girls can be friendly sometimes and children like to talk - it wouldn't surprise me if nothing at all was found at the lake.

LE has probably or is discovering who might have been in the area prior to the children going missing, maybe fishing, or camping if that is allowed, maybe even someone who comes up on weekends or works in the area.

I agree that the chances that the girls knew or were aquainted with a possible ubductor is greater, but please remember the nature of the Nature Trail where the bikes were found...I cannot stress this enough. The Nature Trails are recreational trails used by many, many people in this area. I myself use them. Many, many places on the Nature Trail there is not a soul around, some times you will come across another biker, jogger, walker. but far more times I don't see anybody. I have also many times seen some "sketchy" people on the trail. I have also seen eveidence of meth labs on a portion of the Waterloo trail (several empty boxes of sudafed or ephedrine which is a meth precursor). Most people are on the trails for the same reason as me. to get some exercise, enjoy the beautiful senery, and be outdoors. But unlike a child, I don't assume that everyone out there is friendly. as much as I LOVE the Nature Trails, I would NEVER let my children ride on them without an adult.

 

[Soulmagent]

Usually dogs are taken to the last known good scent location and then asked to search or track from there. Some dogs can scour an area for scent but it is usually just happenstance to find it - as most dogs need a scent trail to follow and track then from that known trail. They don't work backwards at least that is my experience but maybe the FBI has dogs that are trained to work backwards - I've never asked my dogs to do that but maybe in some cases it can be helpful - like when a body is found in an area and then LE needs to know where it came from - someplace nearby?

Interesting about the tracking backwards.

I have a dog ,who is smart but nothing exceptional he does all the dumb tricks I taught him and some my seven year old made up to play with him.

One thing my kid has the dog doing is finding socks but my son is all over the place with the sock setting it here and there before he is ready to really hide it. The dog will be in a completely different room under his stay command and will wait for his call to start the sock hunt. My son taught him all of it .
I have seen the dog trace back to the spot the sock was before being moved after having found the sock. So they probably do have dogs that are trained do this.
I am not an expert though.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I hate to see any child go into foster care, but hoping there would be reliable family or an adoption into a good family. With this case, the mother has had 10 years of life with this child to turn her life around and she hasn't. She was clean after being away from her in prison for 4 years, yet again she blew it and had to return. How many chances and how many years does the child get for the parent to walk straight? Your not a child forever....and little Lyric is so badly damaged psychologically already. I just pray she not gone forever....nor little Elizabeth. JMO

BBM

Respectfully, can you point me to a msm link that shows evidence of Lyric being emotionally damaged versus engaging in normal childhood behaviours? I haven't seen any such information but I know I haven't read every article.

It sounds to me like the Cook family has been there for Lyric; the Collins family had custody of her for about 18 months (according to a local poster either in this thread or the previous one) and her grandmother has had custody of her since then.

That's not a stereotypical "Leave it to Beaver" childhood but it doesn't necessarily add up to emotional damage, either.

I am truly not being snarky right now and I hope I didn't sound that way in what I wrote.

 

[Ms Pragmatic]

Great local insight, Sweetpea. That really puts the trails/area in perspective to give us a more accurate picture! Thank you!

 

[hollye]

Here are Kermit and Animal flip flops in men's sizes at Wal-Mart:
http://www.muppetcentral.com/forum/threads/kermit-and-animal-mens-flip-flops-at-wal-mart.50763/

Hope I got the picture in right!

I bet the Kermit ones are what she was referring to. Kermit is on Sesame Street. And these are adult sizes.