IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #4

[ela_ss teacher]

BBM

Respectfully, can you point me to a msm link that shows evidence of Lyric being emotionally damaged versus engaging in normal childhood behaviours? I haven't seen any such information but I know I haven't read every article.

It sounds to me like the Cook family has been there for Lyric; the Collins family had custody of her for about 18 months (according to a local poster either in this thread or the previous one) and her grandmother has had custody of her since then.

That's not a stereotypical "Leave it to Beaver" childhood but it doesn't necessarily add up to emotional damage, either.

I am truly not being snarky right now and I hope I didn't sound that way in what I wrote.

I just wanted to mention also that I teach middle school and MANY times I'm totally floored when I find out what kind of home life some of my students have had. Most times they are remarkably well adjusted depite their home situation. Lyric could very well be well adjusted like many of my students.

 

[Pensfan]

BBM

Respectfully, can you point me to a msm link that shows evidence of Lyric being emotionally damaged versus engaging in normal childhood behaviours? I haven't seen any such information but I know I haven't read every article.

It sounds to me like the Cook family has been there for Lyric; the Collins family had custody of her for about 18 months (according to a local poster either in this thread or the previous one) and her grandmother has had custody of her since then.

That's not a stereotypical "Leave it to Beaver" childhood but it doesn't necessarily add up to emotional damage, either.

I am truly not being snarky right now and I hope I didn't sound that way in what I wrote.

Not being snarky. It's raining. I'm bored. Soooo I'm providing info.

Children can suffer a range of problems during their parent’s imprisonment, such as: depression, hyperactivity, aggressive behaviour, withdrawal, regression, clinging behaviour, sleep problems, eating problems, running away, truancy and poor school grades (Boswell and Wedge 2002; Centre for Social and Educational Research 2002; Johnston 1995; Kampfner 1995; Sack
et al 1976; Sharp and Marcus-Mendoza 2001; Shaw 1987; Skinner and
Swartz 1989; Stanton 1980). It is commonly cited that up to 30 per cent
of prisoners’ children suffer mental health problems, compared to 10 per
cent of the general population (Philbrick 1996).
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...NB2brM&sig=AHIEtbQkOP3pcVhavRjvR8x2K3j9iTACxQ


The children of women in prison have a greater tendency to exhibit many of the problems that generally accompany parental absence including: low self-esteem, impaired achievement motivation, and poor peer relations. In addition, these children contend with feelings like anxiety, shame, sadness, grief, social isolation, and guilt. The children will often withdraw and regress developmentally, exhibiting behaviors of younger children, like bed wetting . . . As the children reach adolescence, they may begin to act out in anti-social ways. Searching for attention, such pre-teens and teens are at high risk for delinquency, drug addiction, and gang involvement (Women's Prison Association, 1995:9).
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...c4bEje&sig=AHIEtbSJDLmSbAuKEtb46QfBOMa60LWK9g

 

[elepher50]

FBI spokeswoman says 10 divers are here. The search remains a joint investigation between all agencies. #evansdalesearch
by eSchettler via twitter 1:38 PM

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdale_search/

 

[GrainneDhu]

Does anyone remember where the information that DM was being questioned about a "flurry" of cell phone calls that day came from?

If DM is as innocent of direct knowledge as I believe he is, it still makes sense he'd have a bunch of phone calls on his cell phone that day.

His daughter goes missing. What's one of the first steps most parents take in looking for a child who is old enough to play outside without constant adult supervision? Call anyone they think may have seen the child, the child may be visiting or who may have resources to help find the child.

LE would be interested in those calls because if you imagine the potential suspect pool right now as consisting of nesting rings, the family is in the innermost ring and anyone the family knows is in the second ring. Acquaintances are in the third ring (such as delivery people, members of groups the family belongs to, etc). Strangers are in the fourth ring.

Whoever DM called that day is definitely in the first or second ring. And that goes for anyone Drew or Heather Collins called, anyone Wylma Cook called, anyone Tammy Brousseau called, etc.

 

[sweetpea33]

The area sound semi-dangerous with the meth labs around but then again do druggies go after little girls? I mean normally. But I suppose they could have been taken off on a trail no one has searched yet but then again the good FBI dogs would have most likely picked it up - they have the best dogs - or at least I would think they have the best ones.

I am not necessarily saying druggies took the girls...merely trying to get across the point that there are yuppies, bike enthusists, joggers, dog walkers, families, and some sketchy people on the trails at any given time. I also wondered if someone took them if the dogs would follow the trail, but it seems like from Ollipop's previous post that there also is a grassy area at the one end of the trail where some one could have parked a vehicle. it is also a very common practice for people to drive a vehicle to the closest place to get on the trail and walk/run/bike a certain distance then turn around and go back to their vehicle. also remember Aunt Tammy said that once both dogs hit on the scent they then went directly to a wooded area and the family was told to leave then...we don't actually know where the girls scent ended up...JMO

 

[brighidin]

I hate to see any child go into foster care, but hoping there would be reliable family or an adoption into a good family. With this case, the mother has had 10 years of life with this child to turn her life around and she hasn't. She was clean after being away from her in prison for 4 years, yet again she blew it and had to return. How many chances and how many years does the child get for the parent to walk straight? Your not a child forever....and little Lyric is so badly damaged psychologically already. I just pray she not gone forever....nor little Elizabeth. JMO

DO you have a link for that? I have been following this case since the beginning, and while i haven't read everything, I certainly think I would have remembered coming across that. Thanks!

Agree. Was she wearing one of her maxi dresses? For a druggie, she's amazingly well spoken. But that smirk on her face bothers me to no end.

Whether or not the parents are involved in the girls' disappearance, I am not a fan of these two parents.

What possible reason could we have for questioning what Misty wears? Does it matter if she was wearing a maxi dress? Why? I am genuinely curious. Do they mean something? I'm wearing one now...should I change? Do you want her to wear a wifebeater and camo shorts? Would that fit better into your image of a "druggie"?

I've also read a comment on Heather's nails and make-up. Talk about kicking a person when they are down! Do you want her to go to a spa and get her gel nails removed, or a more mournful colour put on? This woman has a horrible heart condition and her daughter is missing. so what if she puts some lip gloss on before going to a memorial for her missing daughter.

Sorry, but these surfacy, unhelpful observations really bother me.

No, it's just that the description of the clothing has changed so many times that everyone is getting confused as to what to be on the lookout for. I'm sure ANY flip flops found would be relevant, but it would be nice to know what to look for.

Misty corrected the flip-flop description on JVM. All the episodes were recorded by momber Patty G and are back in the threads. anyone who wants to watch them can. I know one is tagged, not sure about the others.

Indeed, one of our posters Ollipop, found a pair of flip flops that closely resembled the ones described by Misty and turned them in to LE. Search his posts if you want to read about it: I can't remember where they were and don[t have the time to go back.

search stopped and 2 little girls missing seems so odd to me.lease:

I agree. I mentioned that on Monday and got many of the same responses: that LE is searching elsewhere, that it was too tough on the volunteers, that they can't look everywhere. My opinion remains the same, particularly since companies were donating food and water. People wanted to help, and I think LE could have found places for them to search. maybe there will be big searches this weekend, if they are necessary. I really hope the girls are found safe today, though.

 

[Soulmagent]

I am going off gut instinct only and given the dynamics of the lake. I truly think that if the parents thought for one second they were there they would have indicated as much (or at least ONE of the family members). Thinking along the lines of the family wondering why it has taken so long to get the divers there, pressing for a faster search of the lake, more in depth, etc.
They seem adamant that they aren't there and if they go off of the LE original statement of "just because the bikes and purse were found there does NOT mean the girls themselves were there" they could be clinging to that given the girls record of always coming home when they were suppose to. I don't know...

Again, I go back to my question a few posts back...could the dogs have been trailing a scent of the girls that could have been ON the abductor back into the woods or off the bikes, and not the girls themselves? Could the trail of the scent back into the woods be where the bikes were brought back INTO the trail to be dumped...from the back side, since it stopped there?

Still ,going on the same theory here . Misty saying she knows the girls are not at the lake.

Even if the bikes were dropped their by an abductor ,how would Misty still be so sure the Abductor didnt drop the girls off at or in the lake? The girls would have had to been with the Abductor and the bikes to so wouldnt you want to search the lake because of the bikes and the purse? How does Misty presume to know the girls are not there and know they are not at the lake.

My kids have been looked for in my house places I know within reason he could not be, yet I check them anyway to be sure.

 

[MagnoliaMom]

It was released that there were two types of search dogs brought to the lake, but I never specifically read that one type was cadaver. This can probably be assumed. ???

post #980 in thread #3 by user nskapbt: (partial quote)

I think the dogs traced the scent to the jetty. One of the dog handlers is part of my doll makers forum on FB, they have been posting updates about it.

Her dog is a cadaver dog, that is all she has "leaked" per say.

Dogs can track a moving scent that is not say walking themselves. I remember very clearly reading about a bloodhound who tracked a child for over 5 miles, that was inside a truck.

 

[Boodles]

Brig, there's nothing wrong with a maxi dress. My point was she smiles, shows no sense of urgency in her affect, but apparently has time to make sure she's well coiffed for the cameras. I don't like her past priorities, and I'm speculating about her current ones. Maybe she has reformed (since May). If so, kudos to her. But she was not there for her child. Her priorities were focused on herself, and my impression is that remains the case. IMO

 

[GrainneDhu]

I agree. Crystal meth attracts the most disgusting type of druggie. On JVM last night, a former detective and a rehab therapist described their experience with meth users.

SBM and BBM

Respectfully, my personal experience is that it isn't so much that disgusting types of people are drawn to meth, it's that meth turns people into disgusting messes.

As Ollipop posted yesterday, Iowa was pretty much the ground zero for the plague of meth making. I provided two references for the Iowa history of this drug in one of the previous threads.

As Ollipop says, most Iowans are within three degrees of separation from someone who has been involved in meth at some point.

I've seen people who were essentially normal (although usually somewhat immature) be turned into people I wouldn't trust to be within a quarter mile of me.

 

[hollyblue]

BBM

Respectfully, can you point me to a msm link that shows evidence of Lyric being emotionally damaged versus engaging in normal childhood behaviours? I haven't seen any such information but I know I haven't read every article.

It sounds to me like the Cook family has been there for Lyric; the Collins family had custody of her for about 18 months (according to a local poster either in this thread or the previous one) and her grandmother has had custody of her since then.

That's not a stereotypical "Leave it to Beaver" childhood but it doesn't necessarily add up to emotional damage, either.

I am truly not being snarky right now and I hope I didn't sound that way in what I wrote.

No links, JMO, and I'm not faulting or a pointing finger at HC's family or the GMa, they have been very supportive, but I would be very surprised is she didn't. Abandonment issues at the least. Again, jmo.

 

[palaminodee]

Locals...KWWL news at noon, live interview with one of the parents per the KCRG twitter feed

 

[sweetpea33]

Brig, there's nothing wrong with a maxi dress. My point was she smiles, shows no sense of urgency in her affect, but apparently has time to make sure she's well coiffed for the cameras. I don't like her past priorities, and I'm speculating about her current ones. Maybe she has reformed (since May). If so, kudos to her. But she was not there for her child. Her priorities were focused on herself, and my impression is that remains the case. IMO

whether her past offenses are something that contributed to this case will remain to be seen. until then she is still a mother that has a child that is missing. we have no idea of her depth of grief or how she deals with it or expresses it. and i have seen pictures of her sweaty and dirty in the last week.

 

[brighidin]

Brig, there's nothing wrong with a maxi dress. My point was she smiles, shows no sense of urgency in her affect, but apparently has time to make sure she's well coiffed for the cameras. I don't like her past priorities, and I'm speculating about her current ones. Maybe she has reformed (since May). If so, kudos to her. But she was not there for her child. Her priorities were focused on herself, and my impression is that remains the case. IMO

So I don't have to change?

I'm not denying her affect is a bit off, but wonder if she is deliberately trying to make a good impression because of her past. She wants to come across as put together, intelligent, well-spoken etc., so people don't write her off as some sort of redneck methhead who clearly doesn't give a chit where her kids are.



Women are judged so much for so many surface-y things. It starts so young. In an earlier thread, someone said the cute earrings Lyric is wearing in her school picture look like hooker earrings. So I guess I kind of have my back up about these things.

 

[Ms Pragmatic]

Sweetpea, just a personal question here. You don't have to answer. When bad things happen to young people, especially so close to home, I think e erroneous tames it hard. How are YOU, your family, neighbors coping? This has to be hard for the kids and for the adults.

 

[Ms Pragmatic]

Everyone takes it hard, that should say! Darn iPad

 

[StacyMarie83]

forbid my daughter ever go missing, I'll make sure to where only grief appropriate clothing (which is what?), I'll make sure to never smile, only cry (making sure they are not crocodile tears of course and to make sure everyone knows I'm NOT holding out hope :-/ ), I'll make sure I'm sweaty and dirty constantly (heaven forbid I take a shower to calm my nerves and fears).

I'm glad so many people have a handbook on here LOL This thread has derailed IMO unfortunately

 

[Wishbone]

I don't think anyone stated or was suggesting all searches stopped. I was simply stating that 1000 people can cover much more territory than a few dozen LE. I'm looking at other cases and see that the searches lasted much, much longer.

I’m going to feel really stupid if something of real value turns up from the ongoing search of the lake. This concentration of attention on the lake has been going on for AN ENTIRE WEEK. Where are the girls? Why am I not hearing more of that plea from the powers that be? I’m just feeling really frustrated that there isn’t more of an urgent response from LE.

 

[Ollipop]

Misty and G'ma on local news live now.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Back in this thread we posted the abduction stastic's and it mentioned where abducted children where transported two and how they were transported etc..

Giving that most stranger and non stranger abductions both commited the crime in cars and transported the victims to a home or other building and the fact that if they have been abducted it is most likely a local ,what signs could the neighboring community be looking for to indicate a possible connection to the crime?

Anyone who seems unusually obsessed with cleaning out the interior of their vehicle (or the trunk) since Friday.

Anyone who took an unexpected or unexplained day off starting Friday combined with strange behaviour since then. For example, someone who never fishes who says they were fishing on Friday and tries to imply that it is an activity they engage in frequently (revisionist history).

That's just off the top of my head, I'm sure there are other possibilities I'm not thinking of.