IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #6

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GrainneDhu said:
SBM

I keep wondering just how good the paddle boat lead was. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.

If two different people, unknown to each other, said they saw a paddle boat on the lake on Friday, then okay, I believe it.

If one person told LE Friday afternoon that there was a paddle boat on the lake a few hours previously, I think that sounds fairly reliable.

But if the lead was called in after Friday, then I have to wonder if that person actually saw a paddle boat on Thursday and conflated it with the next day.
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I'm wondering if the person with the paddleboat and the man who told Aunt Tammy that he saw the girls at 2:30 could be the same person. Maybe that lead came from her.

If it is the same man and he is not coming forward, I would be skeptical about whether he really did see the girls at 2:30. Could it be possible that Aunt Tammy actually ran in to the kidnapper at the lake after the girls were taken but before the bikes were discovered?

Other witnesses such as the "watering his plants" man have spoken out publicly thru the news media but I don't recall seeing any interviews with the guy Tammy talked to at the lake!
:moo:
 
SapphireSteel said:
I took it as a foot control type boat.

Either way, there seems to be a missing witness...someone who was on that lake, who has not come forward.

LE have asked several times for that person to come forward and they haven't yet. Until they do, they are my pick for suspect number one.

We need to know more about the paddle boat! Is there always one on the lake, just abandoned? Do locals have them just laying about for free use for all? Personally I doubt this. Did our friend, the civic-minded Ted Gamerbinger, recognise the paddle boat, or the person in it? Was the paddle boat bought to the lake, and taken away afterwards, if so how? Why did no one see?

So many questions...
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BBM
That made me LOL! I have spent way too much time today thinking about Gamerbinger!
 
katydid23 said:
Which is one little 'clue' that has been niggling at me. Why didn't she take her cell? Most young girls have it attached to them every time they leave the home. Did she forget it or did she leave it home on purpose?

I know of a couple cases where the girl purposely left the cell at home because they planned to run off that day. [ One that comes to mind is the 14 yr old from Oxnard calif who ran off to mexico with her older boyfriend. She had a child with him and came home voluntarily 2 yrs later or so IIRC]
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I think it would depend on if Lyric had many friends to text with.

Also, aren't there cell phones for kids that can be programmed to be used only for calling certain telephone numbers in addition to 911? If she had one of those, she might well consider it more of a nuisance than a desirable bit of property.

I think 10 years old is sort of a cusp age, where some of them are still more like younger children and some of them are 10 going on 20. Not infrequently, there are kids that age who manage to be both types within a day or even an hour.

This is one of those things where it would help greatly to know if Lyric forgot it frequently or if she was usually tightly attached to it. I think either behaviour would fall into the range of normal childhood behaviour.
 
One or two of the houses on the SE side of the lake seem close enough to possibly have a view of the trail area (or so it appears) from the map seem to have at least one yellow paddle boat...lots of trees. Wonder if those properties were checked out, since they are so close to the area where the bikes were found...I'm assuming they were. Perhaps the paddle boat person came from one of those houses...if there indeed was a paddleboater on the lake at that time. Why wouldn't LE just go ask them if they were out that day and/or saw something...? Maybe people are just plain too worried about repercussions should there be drug culture revenge or something. Creepy. MOO
 
ShyViolet said:
Re: the paddle boat-I have lived my whole life in the land of 10,000 Lakes and have seen every kind of recreational boat being hauled on a trailer, except a paddle boat. For whatever reason, people do not tend to move those from lake to lake, but park them at their lake home or cabin and there they stay.

That makes me think that the paddle boat (as long as it is what I think of as a paddle boat) belongs to someone who lives on the lake. It did not look like there are that many homes on the lake. I wonder why LE would not just canvass the neighborhood to ask who has a paddle boat?
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I was thinking the exact same thing! My grandfather used to have one at his lake house and it just stayed in the water tied up or dragged onto shore right by the dock. I got the impression they're pretty heavy. So unless the lake has a place to rent, I'd think you just start circling the neighborhood.
 
TGIRecovered said:
I'm wondering if the person with the paddleboat and the man who told Aunt Tammy that he saw the girls at 2:30 could be the same person. Maybe that lead came from her.

If it is the same man and he is not coming forward, I would be skeptical about whether he really did see the girls at 2:30. Could it be possible that Aunt Tammy actually ran in to the kidnapper at the lake after the girls were taken but before the bikes were discovered?

Other witnesses such as the "watering his plants" man have spoken out publicly thru the news media but I don't recall seeing any interviews with the guy Tammy talked to at the lake!
:moo:
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This is a REALLY good point. I had just assumed Police had talked to that witness, but that the witness didn't want media attention. However, if the police had talked to him, the timeline would be different. I think you are on to something. Either Aunt Tammy's witness = paddleboat guy. Or Aunt Tammy's witness = kidnapper. Or BOTH!
 
What is the difference between a pedal boat and a paddle boat?

A pedal boat uses your feet to power the boat. A paddle boat uses paddle wheels to power the boat... so most pedal boats are paddle boats as well.

http://directboats.com/pebobugu.html
 
nikb said:
This might be an off the wall question but... what's meant by a "paddle boat"? I was picturing one of those ones that have pedals and you use your feet to propel it by pedalling, then realized that might be a "pedal boat" and "paddle boat" might be something else like what I might call a row boat. It'd make a big difference in terms of distance someone could travel, and maybe amount of time they'd be out on the lake?
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You are correct about the paddle boat being the one you pedal, they usally have room for at least 4 people to..
 
Paddleboats don't make for a great getaway vehicle...could be a lure for a ride into some wooded cove with overhanging vegetation, because it can get into very shallow areas and be out of sight though...moo
 
JaimeInLA said:
This is a REALLY good point. I had just assumed Police had talked to that witness, but that the witness didn't want media attention. However, if the police had talked to him, the timeline would be different. I think you are on to something. Either Aunt Tammy's witness = paddleboat guy. Or Aunt Tammy's witness = kidnapper. Or BOTH!
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And the weird thing is Aunt Tammy said LE has his name/#. How does she know that? She asks him at 2:45 if he has seen the girls - he says yes they were heading east about 2:30. Who told Tammy they had his info? And why hasn't LE mentioned it in the press conferences?

From the get-go I did not believe this sighting because I do not believe the girls were there that day. I can't say what I think though. And why oh why do the missing posters say they were last seen riding bikes at the lake at 2? Is it because of this one witness?
 
Sunlight said:
Paddleboats don't make for a great getaway vehicle...could be a lure for a ride into some wooded cove with overhanging vegetation, because it can get into very shallow areas and be out of sight though...moo
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Seriously - that is quite possibly the worst getaway vehicle in history. Paddle Boat Guy HAS to be Aunt Tammy's witness. There is no way he could be the kidnapper.
 
JaimeInLA said:
This is a REALLY good point. I had just assumed Police had talked to that witness, but that the witness didn't want media attention. However, if the police had talked to him, the timeline would be different. I think you are on to something. Either Aunt Tammy's witness = paddleboat guy. Or Aunt Tammy's witness = kidnapper. Or BOTH!
Click to expand...

Come to think of it, I don't know if anyone other than Aunt Tammy has seen or spoken to this man. Did Grandma drive Tammy to the lake? I wonder if she waited in the car while Tammy looked around and spoke with the man? Has anyone heard her say what he was doing there? Fishing, running, out for a stroll?
 
Sunlight said:
Paddleboats don't make for a great getaway vehicle...could be a lure for a ride into some wooded cove with overhanging vegetation, because it can get into very shallow areas and be out of sight though...moo
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I think the only thing it might do is help 'groom' the girls into feeling comfortable. Then he rides with them across the lake, to the dock where they live, and he says, I will take you back to your bikes in a bit, let's go inside for a minute and get a soda first...
 
JaimeInLA said:
Seriously - that is quite possibly the worst getaway vehicle in history. Paddle Boat Guy HAS to be Aunt Tammy's witness. There is no way he could be the kidnapper.
Click to expand...

How about with two compliant girls helping to paddle?

Maybe mr paddle boat was near the jetty.
 
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