IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #6

[Jax49]

not directed at you Sapphire-but the Chief-talk to your people!!

CHIEF: Check your own local media!

 

[Pippi]

:seeya: Hi, first time poster who found the site after hearing about the case on the 10 pm news last Sunday (the 15th). It piqued my interest because I was camping about 150 miles from where this took place and had the local radio on the entire weekend but never heard any mention of this!

I can't bold on my phone (am I missing something in Tapatalk?) but I don't understand all the attention on the biker either. In one breath we (collective) are begging for this paddle boater or anyone else that was there to come forward and in another we (again collective) are ripping apart the one person that has came forward. Is it any wonder private citizens want no part of these investigations?

I would never tell anyone how to post but I just wish we could keep these things off the boards. There is nothing wrong with sleuthing on your own and keeping notes but we know locals are reading here and we could be scaring off the very witness LE is looking for with these sort of posts. Just my 2 cents and I'll shut up now.

Thank you, thank you! I had planned on lurking but really wanted to speak up in the witness’ defense. Each time the only two media-named witnesses (bicyclist and lawn waterer) have been called suspicious on here, it makes me cringe. I’m sure many, many locals are reading this site. There might be witnesses who have come forward but won’t speak to the media for fear of placing themselves at the scene and getting sleuthed (and they might have info that could be really helpful to those of us racking our brains on this case) or worse yet there might be witnesses who are scared to come forward now. (Even the paddle boater is being implied as the kidnapper now, *sigh*.)

If you’re reading, Mr. Bicyclist, I think you’re just a good citizen who came forward as a witness!

If I’m wrong about him, I’ll eat my shoe. :blushing:

Timeline?
As far as his timeline/phone call, when it was first reported my interpretation was that he rode by the bikes, swerved to miss, and continued on his way. Later he stopped (was it to use the restroom?) and called his daughter, but not about the bikes. Later that afternoon when he heard the report of 2 girls missing at the lake, he called to report seeing the bikes and based on his earlier phone call time, he estimated the 12:27 sighting. In other words, it’s my understanding that the phone call was not made at 12:27 but rather that was his estimated bike sighting time based on the phone call made later. I hope that makes sense.

I think so much weight is put on this sighting because it is much more common to see two girls on bikes than to see two unattended bikes. Many witnesses could have seen a pair of girls out riding bikes that may or not have been these girls, but I doubt there were many other pairs of bikes laying around completely unattended.

Staged?
I don’t believe for a second that someone would take the time to stage the bikes. Park the vehicle, walk to the creepy spot with 2 bikes, toss the purse? Nah. Besides, if they really wanted to make it look like a drowning, wouldn’t they have put the bikes closer to the gate or even on the rock jetty and leave a shoe or piece of clothing – something to imply they were close to the water?

Parents involved?
I’ve felt strongly from the beginning that the parents were not involved. This was a seemingly impromptu bike ride – they didn’t even tell Grandma where they were going, so how would the parents know when they left and where they were going in order to get someone in place to snatch them? If Lyric was the target, wouldn’t it have been easier to claim she disappeared during the night? I recall a case or two like that and the parents are walking free as far as I know.

Alive?
Gosh, I hope so, but I feel like the announcement came on Saturday simply to get this back in the news. There was not even a mention on our Thursday night news and even the “abduction” classification didn’t make our news on Friday. The demeanor at today’s press conference also confirms my feeling.

Do I win an award for longest first post? Oh, and I did read the rules, so JMO, MOO for all of the above.

 

[SyraKelly]

CHIEF: Check your own local media!

Right-lol-:banghead:

 

[Considering]

He still says he is not aware of the person who saw the girl's bikes at the lake - and he said if you know who that is and have their # to let him know so he can have detectives follow up on it. He sounded very defensive about that. I don't know - this is weird!!

Geez!!!

His name's Ted Gamerbinger and he lives at.....


:banghead:

not directed at you Sapphire-but the Chief-talk to your people!!

I listened to the presser a few minutes ago. I watched Capt. Abben closely when he was asked about the bikes and I believe he knew exactly what the reporter was talking about. I think he may be tired; he may be frustrated; he may not appreciate the criticism he's received or who knows what, but I think that was nothing but a stalling tactic/non-responsive answer with a little sarcasm in his voice thrown in. Maybe he's tired of answering the same questions.

I also find myself questioning his response to the question posed about whether they have evidence that the girls are alive. His response is something like "We have evidence that has been taken to the ___ lab." I think that was a practiced response to an expected question about whether or not there was evidence. I'm not so sure he meant for it to be interpreted that LE has evidence that the girls are alive that has been taken to the lab, although that was the actual question from the reporter. I guess we'll know in time.

 

[GrainneDhu]

In a forest environment the dog should have been able to follow a long trail - the only time my dogs could not follow a long trail was in the city when the subject was put in a vehicle. At the forest location, was there a road where the girls could have been in a car or truck? Usually dogs will circle when the subjects are put in a car but some dogs can be trained to follow scent even in a car but that takes special training unless the scent if very fresh.

My dogs ID scent from inside a vehicle when the person was in the car and the scent pooled heavy on a spot and then my dogs ID the parking space, but just driving away with the girls means no heavy scent pools.

Scent will stay for about one month in dense moist environment so the dogs can track really well in this type of situation - so what happened? why did theypull the dogs off?

No one knows.

We've been having a drought in Iowa. Locals reported there was light sprinkling of rain very early that morning.

I'm guessing there wasn't much rain that morning because I saw video of searchers going through a corn field on Saturday. The corn was clearly dehydrated--leaves pointing up and rolled. If there had been even a quarter inch of rain the previous morning, I think the corn leaves would not have been rolled.

There is a sort of trail that is marked as a named street on Bing. Ollipop who is a verified local and took pictures of the place didn't even know it existed until he went hunting for it.

But it definitely exists and a vehicle pulled up (or backed up) the trail would not be visible from either the trail or Arbutus Avenue, which actually intersects the hidden trail.

So yes, the girls could have been placed into a vehicle in the forest.

 

[nervous_nellie]

I haven't heard anyone here comment on Misti's sudden appearance in the later part of the interview with Dan's mother. She appears around 5:19 in a mini-dress. She cuts right through the middle of camera view and oddly sits with her back to the camera, then briefly plays with the kitten and appears to play or text on a cellphone or ipod. I find this behaviour extremly odd and just wanted others views on this. I am relatively new here (was on here some months ago and then forgot my user info so have just been reading). It is hard to sit silent on this case. Here is the link to the interview I am referring to.
http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-816543

I do think that is Misti. If not, i am sorry. It looks like her.

yep, you are correct...i watched this vid before i knew what mm looked like. i do think it is strange...

 

[palaminodee]

I haven't heard anyone here comment on Misti's sudden appearance in the later part of the interview with Dan's mother. She appears around 5:19 in a mini-dress. She cuts right through the middle of camera view and oddly sits with her back to the camera, then briefly plays with the kitten and appears to play or text on a cellphone or ipod. I find this behaviour extremly odd and just wanted others views on this. I am relatively new here (was on here some months ago and then forgot my user info so have just been reading). It is hard to sit silent on this case. Here is the link to the interview I am referring to.
http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-816543

I do think that is Misti, If not, I am sorry. It looks like her.

thanks for posting , I never saw this complete video, only a snipet
that most certainly is Misty
IMO

 

[elmomom]

:seeya: Hi, first time poster who found the site after hearing about the case on the 10 pm news last Sunday (the 15th). It piqued my interest because I was camping about 150 miles from where this took place and had the local radio on the entire weekend but never heard any mention of this!



Thank you, thank you! I had planned on lurking but really wanted to speak up in the witness’ defense. Each time the only two media-named witnesses (bicyclist and lawn waterer) have been called suspicious on here, it makes me cringe. I’m sure many, many locals are reading this site. There might be witnesses who have come forward but won’t speak to the media for fear of placing themselves at the scene and getting sleuthed (and they might have info that could be really helpful to those of us racking our brains on this case) or worse yet there might be witnesses who are scared to come forward now. (Even the paddle boater is being implied as the kidnapper now, *sigh*.)

If you’re reading, Mr. Bicyclist, I think you’re just a good citizen who came forward as a witness!

If I’m wrong about him, I’ll eat my shoe. :blushing:

Timeline?
As far as his timeline/phone call, when it was first reported my interpretation was that he rode by the bikes, swerved to miss, and continued on his way. Later he stopped (was it to use the restroom?) and called his daughter, but not about the bikes. Later that afternoon when he heard the report of 2 girls missing at the lake, he called to report seeing the bikes and based on his earlier phone call time, he estimated the 12:27 sighting. In other words, it’s my understanding that the phone call was not made at 12:27 but rather that was his estimated bike sighting time based on the phone call made later. I hope that makes sense.

I think so much weight is put on this sighting because it is much more common to see two girls on bikes than to see two unattended bikes. Many witnesses could have seen a pair of girls out riding bikes that may or not have been these girls, but I doubt there were many other pairs of bikes laying around completely unattended.

Staged?
I don’t believe for a second that someone would take the time to stage the bikes. Park the vehicle, walk to the creepy spot with 2 bikes, toss the purse? Nah. Besides, if they really wanted to make it look like a drowning, wouldn’t they have put the bikes closer to the gate or even on the rock jetty and leave a shoe or piece of clothing – something to imply they were close to the water?

Parents involved?
I’ve felt strongly from the beginning that the parents were not involved. This was a seemingly impromptu bike ride – they didn’t even tell Grandma where they were going, so how would the parents know when they left and where they were going in order to get someone in place to snatch them? If Lyric was the target, wouldn’t it have been easier to claim she disappeared during the night? I recall a case or two like that and the parents are walking free as far as I know.

Alive?
Gosh, I hope so, but I feel like the announcement came on Saturday simply to get this back in the news. There was not even a mention on our Thursday night news and even the “abduction” classification didn’t make our news on Friday. The demeanor at today’s press conference also confirms my feeling.

Do I win an award for longest first post? Oh, and I did read the rules, so JMO, MOO for all of the above.

First, welcome to WS! Great first post! I do agree with everything you said, so thank you for saying it.

I also want to add that people seem so fast to accuse witnesses of changing times and details, but not so quick in figuring out that the info that is given to LE is what is important, not the info given to us by shoddy reporting. We have no idea of how consistent or inconsistent stories are, since we are only hearing them through varying degrees of reporting.

 

[FindtheTruth]

I haven't heard anyone here comment on Misti's sudden appearance in the later part of the interview with Dan's mother. She appears around 5:19 in a mini-dress. She cuts right through the middle of camera view and oddly sits with her back to the camera, then briefly plays with the kitten and appears to play or text on a cellphone or ipod. I find this behaviour extremly odd and just wanted others views on this. I am relatively new here (was on here some months ago and then forgot my user info so have just been reading). It is hard to sit silent on this case. Here is the link to the interview I am referring to.
http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-816543

I do think that is Misti, If not, I am sorry. It looks like her.

This also looks like Misty to me. I agree it would be strange to sit 2 feet from where your MIL is doing an interview about your missing daughter and not be engaged/listening.....

 

[SapphireSteel]

Ok this person in a boat is now worrying me.

Thinking out loud -

The older of the two girls gets chatting to some rockspider online somewhere.

She tells her new friend of her crappy life, her belief no one would care/notice if she ran away, her dad is mean and makes her do chores, all the sort of stuff any ordinary 10 year old would complain about.

The rock spider says...I can take you away from all that.

Meet me at Meyer Lake, I'll be the one in the row boat...

Of course she brings her best friend forever so she can have a witness to the start of her new life...not realising that her "saviour" is actually a predator who decides two little girls are better than one.

LE trace the rock spider and find he has recently vacated his house, and they find evidence that two LIVE children have gone with him...

 

[sarx]

No one knows.

We've been having a drought in Iowa. Locals reported there was light sprinkling of rain very early that morning.

I'm guessing there wasn't much rain that morning because I saw video of searchers going through a corn field on Saturday. The corn was clearly dehydrated--leaves pointing up and rolled. If there had been even a quarter inch of rain the previous morning, I don't think the corn leaves would not have been rolled.

There is a sort of trail that is marked as a named street on Bing. Ollipop who is a verified local and took pictures of the place didn't even know it existed until he went hunting for it.

But it definitely exists and a vehicle pulled up (or backed up) the trail would not be visible from either the trail or Arbutus Avenue, which actually intersects the hidden trail.

So yes, the girls could have been placed into a vehicle in the forest.

Haven't pulled up the map yet. How far is it to the area you're referring to where a car could have pulled up?

 

[GrainneDhu]

Kidnapping is a serious crime that means the death penalty doesn't it? So the idea that the children were absconded with by perps known or semi known to the family means these guys are really stupid and can they afford to release the children without putting themselves in death's way? Even a sort of sick pay back or revenge means that most likely the children are just gone unless rescued by giant efforts from LE or a great tip.

There is no death penalty in Iowa, I am relieved to say. Only if the perp is charged in federal court would the death penalty come into play (and that's assuming one or both girls die).

If the girls are released alive, then no death penalty at the federal level either.

 

[IAM]

I thought it was her. I just wanted to see if other people thought so. I didn't notice her the first time as I was busy watching and listening to the grandmother. So, I began watching videos again to look at the people and surroundings instead and that is when I noticed her. She appears to deliberately walk in camera view only to turn her back on it??? But, stays close enough to hear what is being said. Or, perhaps close enough to be inviting herself to be interviewed???

 

[FindtheTruth]

Ok this person in a boat is now worrying me.

Thinking out loud -

The older of the two girls gets chatting to some rockspider online somewhere.

She tells her new friend of her crappy life, her belief no one would care/notice if she ran away, her dad is mean and makes her do chores, all the sort of stuff any ordinary 10 year old would complain about.

The rock spider says...I can take you away from all that.

Meet me at Meyer Lake, I'll be the one in the row boat...

Of course she brings her best friend forever so she can have a witness to the start of her new life...not realising that her "saviour" is actually a predator who decides two little girls are better than one.

LE trace the rock spider and find he has recently vacated his house, and they find evidence that two LIVE children have gone with him...

I find this to be a very plausible theory. I have always thought that Lyric had been "groomed" and then abducted by someone. Just still on the fence whether it is someone with a connection to the family/drug scene or not...

 

[Ryloga]

It would be important if either of the girls were expected to testify at DM's trial. However, I remember reading somewhere that DM was expected to plead guilty just the day before the girls went missing. Apparently, he requested a jury trial at that time (just the day before).

 

[nervous_nellie]

I thought it was her. I just wanted to see if other people thought so. I didn't notice her the first time as I was busy watching and listening to the grandmother. So, I began watching videos again to look at the people and surroundings instead and that is when I noticed her. She appears to deliberately walk in camera view only to turn her back on it??? But, stays close enough to hear what is being said. Or, perhaps close enough to be inviting herself to be interviewed???

this vid is from very early on isnt it? wonder if the ireporter knew who she was, i would think she would have tried to interview her too?? strange...

 

[Jax49]

:seeya: Hi, first time poster who found the site after hearing about the case on the 10 pm news last Sunday (the 15th). It piqued my interest because I was camping about 150 miles from where this took place and had the local radio on the entire weekend but never heard any mention of this!



Thank you, thank you! I had planned on lurking but really wanted to speak up in the witness’ defense. Each time the only two media-named witnesses (bicyclist and lawn waterer) have been called suspicious on here, it makes me cringe. I’m sure many, many locals are reading this site. There might be witnesses who have come forward but won’t speak to the media for fear of placing themselves at the scene and getting sleuthed (and they might have info that could be really helpful to those of us racking our brains on this case) or worse yet there might be witnesses who are scared to come forward now. (Even the paddle boater is being implied as the kidnapper now, *sigh*.)

If you’re reading, Mr. Bicyclist, I think you’re just a good citizen who came forward as a witness!

If I’m wrong about him, I’ll eat my shoe. :blushing:

Timeline?
As far as his timeline/phone call, when it was first reported my interpretation was that he rode by the bikes, swerved to miss, and continued on his way. Later he stopped (was it to use the restroom?) and called his daughter, but not about the bikes. Later that afternoon when he heard the report of 2 girls missing at the lake, he called to report seeing the bikes and based on his earlier phone call time, he estimated the 12:27 sighting. In other words, it’s my understanding that the phone call was not made at 12:27 but rather that was his estimated bike sighting time based on the phone call made later. I hope that makes sense.

I think so much weight is put on this sighting because it is much more common to see two girls on bikes than to see two unattended bikes. Many witnesses could have seen a pair of girls out riding bikes that may or not have been these girls, but I doubt there were many other pairs of bikes laying around completely unattended.

Staged?
I don’t believe for a second that someone would take the time to stage the bikes. Park the vehicle, walk to the creepy spot with 2 bikes, toss the purse? Nah. Besides, if they really wanted to make it look like a drowning, wouldn’t they have put the bikes closer to the gate or even on the rock jetty and leave a shoe or piece of clothing – something to imply they were close to the water?

Parents involved?
I’ve felt strongly from the beginning that the parents were not involved. This was a seemingly impromptu bike ride – they didn’t even tell Grandma where they were going, so how would the parents know when they left and where they were going in order to get someone in place to snatch them? If Lyric was the target, wouldn’t it have been easier to claim she disappeared during the night? I recall a case or two like that and the parents are walking free as far as I know.

Alive?
Gosh, I hope so, but I feel like the announcement came on Saturday simply to get this back in the news. There was not even a mention on our Thursday night news and even the “abduction” classification didn’t make our news on Friday. The demeanor at today’s press conference also confirms my feeling.

Do I win an award for longest first post? Oh, and I did read the rules, so JMO, MOO for all of the above.

My understanding is that he called his daughter at 12:27, minutes after he'd swerved to miss the bikes. So he estimated he saw the bikes closer to 12:20.

 

[katydid23]

:seeya: Hi, first time poster who found the site after hearing about the case on the 10 pm news last Sunday (the 15th). It piqued my interest because I was camping about 150 miles from where this took place and had the local radio on the entire weekend but never heard any mention of this!



Thank you, thank you! I had planned on lurking but really wanted to speak up in the witness’ defense. Each time the only two media-named witnesses (bicyclist and lawn waterer) have been called suspicious on here, it makes me cringe. I’m sure many, many locals are reading this site. There might be witnesses who have come forward but won’t speak to the media for fear of placing themselves at the scene and getting sleuthed (and they might have info that could be really helpful to those of us racking our brains on this case) or worse yet there might be witnesses who are scared to come forward now. (Even the paddle boater is being implied as the kidnapper now, *sigh*.)

If you’re reading, Mr. Bicyclist, I think you’re just a good citizen who came forward as a witness!

If I’m wrong about him, I’ll eat my shoe. :blushing:

Timeline?
As far as his timeline/phone call, when it was first reported my interpretation was that he rode by the bikes, swerved to miss, and continued on his way. Later he stopped (was it to use the restroom?) and called his daughter, but not about the bikes. Later that afternoon when he heard the report of 2 girls missing at the lake, he called to report seeing the bikes and based on his earlier phone call time, he estimated the 12:27 sighting. In other words, it’s my understanding that the phone call was not made at 12:27 but rather that was his estimated bike sighting time based on the phone call made later. I hope that makes sense.

I think so much weight is put on this sighting because it is much more common to see two girls on bikes than to see two unattended bikes. Many witnesses could have seen a pair of girls out riding bikes that may or not have been these girls, but I doubt there were many other pairs of bikes laying around completely unattended.

Staged?
I don’t believe for a second that someone would take the time to stage the bikes. Park the vehicle, walk to the creepy spot with 2 bikes, toss the purse? Nah. Besides, if they really wanted to make it look like a drowning, wouldn’t they have put the bikes closer to the gate or even on the rock jetty and leave a shoe or piece of clothing – something to imply they were close to the water?

Parents involved?
I’ve felt strongly from the beginning that the parents were not involved. This was a seemingly impromptu bike ride – they didn’t even tell Grandma where they were going, so how would the parents know when they left and where they were going in order to get someone in place to snatch them? If Lyric was the target, wouldn’t it have been easier to claim she disappeared during the night? I recall a case or two like that and the parents are walking free as far as I know.

Alive?
Gosh, I hope so, but I feel like the announcement came on Saturday simply to get this back in the news. There was not even a mention on our Thursday night news and even the “abduction” classification didn’t make our news on Friday. The demeanor at today’s press conference also confirms my feeling.

Do I win an award for longest first post? Oh, and I did read the rules, so JMO, MOO for all of the above.

First of all. :welcome: to WS. Great first post.


As to the speculation you see here about witnesses and paddle boaters, that is all it is. Speculation, brain storming, possible scenarios.

If the girls were abducted, then someone in that very small circle of potential perps is the guilty party. So it makes sense to look at and discuss the few people that we know were present at the time the girls went missing.

We are only brainstorming, thinking out loud, and NOT really accusing anyone. Just bringing up questions and possible scenarios. I doubt the bicyclist had anything to do with the crime. I am about 98% certain he is innocent. But there is always that 2% of a possibility that he inserted himself into the scene because he cannot help himself, or because he needed an excuse in case they find his prints or DNA on the purse of bikes. :smile: Just kidding, kind of...

 

[JaimeInLA]

I thought it was her. I just wanted to see if other people thought so. I didn't notice her the first time as I was busy watching and listening to the grandmother. So, I began watching videos again to look at the people and surroundings instead and that is when I noticed her. She appears to deliberately walk in camera view only to turn her back on it??? But, stays close enough to hear what is being said. Or, perhaps close enough to be inviting herself to be interviewed???

I'd love to know what she's texting about and to whom as she sits there tapping away.

 

[GrainneDhu]

wouldn't leaving the girls bikes at the lake be great subterfuge and misdirection? think of the amount of wasted time tracking down a useless avenue while the bad guys are covering their tracks - and why then would the bloodhounds only go so far into the woods and then be pulled back. But scent trails are odd - wind can blow scent in a direction and then the dogs will follow and retreat - because it isn't the trail. So then you circle the dogs and pick up the main trail if there is one - and what do you conclude if there isn't one?

I don't think draining the lake was a waste of investigative resources.

The FBI divers and sonar people would never have been part of the investigation had there been no lake involved.

The days before the divers and sonar arrived, it was 2 guys paddling around in kayaks and maybe (guessing wildly and deliberately over-estimating) 2 guys to help them get the kayaks into the lake and out again, plus 6 guys to guard the cordoned off area. Maybe a total of 10 LE personnel (none of whom were necessarily detectives and some may not have been LE personnel).

I saw in the media that DCI has sent 30 agents, the FBI has a whole bunch and I have seen LE from Cedar Rapids and Iowa City in various media shots.

The lake took up a minor fraction of the LE working on the case.