IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #8

[sweetpea33]

I am pretty sure I have found a picture of his son with JW, for what that is worth. Not sure if they are possible relatives or what, but I am almost 100% sure the person in the photo with him has the same last name.

there is a SR who is currently active on FB who is also FB friends with JW. again, just throwing that out there.

 

[HeavenLeigh]

Where is this Scott Reavis guy these days? Is there motive for retaliation at Misty? MOO

Good question. I wonder about him and David Mickelson (or if he is still in prison).

BBM CBM

"Misty also ran into trouble along with one of her bosses. According to court papers, Misty played a role in a meth operation run by David Mickelson, her former boss at the BIG Ten Mart in Waterloo, Iowa.

"Cook testified that she obtained pseudoephedrine pills from various people and provided them to Scott Reavis, who used them to make methamphetamine," court records state.

Cook twice purchased case quantities of pseudoephedrine pills from Mickelson – for $1,400 a case – and provided them to Reavis to make meth. Mickelson was convicted of conspiracy to manufacture meth and distribute pseudoephedrine with that intent. He was sentenced to 121 months in jail."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/cops-suspe...ls-case-family/story?id=16810959#.UBLtQY7WOMM

 

[Thespyma]

I did not see any place in the article where it was said that JC overdosed on prescription drugs. It also does not say that he attempted suicide. Overdosing is not typically a suicide attempt, but usually accidental.

Like I said previously...the original article had information which was later expunged...wonder why...I also wonder who 911 called about the OD...

 

[Jules71]

I really think that the idea of delivering drugs being one of Lyric's "chores" is very far fetched. When I was a kid, my chores were things like cleaning my room, helping with dishes, setting the table, dusting, etc. If I was getting lax in doing them, my grandmother, and sometimes other people, would lecture me about not doing my chores and helping my mother out.

I don't see anything sinister about Dan doing the same thing if grandma had mentioned to him that she hadn't cleaned her room, had left toys laying around, didn't dry dishes, or whatever.. Since there wasn't supposed to be contact between him and Misty, I'm just assuming it was WC who said it.

My chores were similar to yours. But my parents weren't drug addicts / felons.

 

[SapphireSteel]

It was a stranger abduction. It happened in a small town where people may know each other by sight, but there was absolutely no relationship between the murderers and the mother of the child.

Even if it turns out that the person(s) that abducted Elizabeth and Lyric uses meth, that is not a reason to assume that the mother has a relationship with the abductor.

Respectfully disagree (see link)...regardless, I personally have always believed the children knew their abductors.

At this point discussing drug muling is like discussing what type of plane went through tower one IMO. I'm starting to wonder if everyone in this entire family uses meth, more than one generation. It is fact some members are charged with manufacturing, indeed have served time more than once for it.

The trouble with this sort of lifestyle is, it is a diseased way to live, and like any disease, it spreads and the innocent are affected.

Muling or not muling, it seems likely the girls are more victims somehow of the drug activites of their family or friends, even if it does turn out to be just another sexually motivated abduction by someone whos brains are fried.

I also find it tough to believe that anyone would take 2 little girls, with all the associated hassle, just to stop DM yapping in court. A bullet would do that a lot more quickly and cleanly. :dunno:

I'm still playing catch up here...its 5 in the morning and I'm only one coffee in...

:banghead:

:moo:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2009/05/20/tori-stafford.html

 

[palaminodee]

I am pretty sure I have found a picture of his son with JW, for what that is worth. Not sure if they are possible relatives or what, but I am almost 100% sure the person in the photo with him has the same last name.

nephew

 

[Eyespy]

nephew

Thanks, that makes sense.

 

[Confusion]

At the risk of crossing a line I'm not sure of, I thought this might be important. On FB, SR calls JW "my nephew". They are friends on there.

 

[Unscripted]

This reminds me of the disappearance of Victoria Stafford. The mother was involved with drug abuse (oxycontin), so until the child was found, the focus was on the mother and her drug connections. A few months later, two people were arrested, Victoria was found deceased and there was no connection to the mother or drugs. It was simply a nasty man and his girlfriend that lured, attacked and murdered an 8 year old girl.

Tori (Victoria) Stafford's mother (Tara McDonald) was however acquainted with Tori's abductor, Terri-Lynne McClintic, although *claims* her daughter never met McClintic. The interaction of the two drug users clearly put Tori on the radar of the underbelly of society... imo. Possibly the same sort of risky situation for Elizabeth & Lyric?

Toronto Star article: http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/1142826--tori-stafford-murder-trial-mother-s-shortcomings

 

[LisaB]

Lortab makes me wide-awake! :woohoo:

Good to know that it isn't just me. I get WIRED and clean my house after I have root canals done!

 

[iamnotagolem]

My chores were similar to yours. But my parents weren't drug addicts / felons.

My dad was an addict/felon, while I can't say for certain that he never had any of us deliver drugs for him. I do know that he would use us to pick up women, so I wouldn't be surprised if he d me a bag and said "oh take this to that man, he dropped it in the parking lot when he got out of his car". I could see that scenario happening and never realizing it happened.

 

[katydid23]

I am trying to find exactly when it was 'corrected' but at some point they said the 11:30 time was off, and the girls left much later than that. I have not found that link yet though. [ something about the video time stamp showed grandma she was off on her 11:30 time.]

ETA: Here is where the 11:30 time comes in. But recently it was begun to be reported that they left the house later than that.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/16/ijvm.01.html

JVM show:july 16th, 2012


BROUSSEAU: Absolutely. Absolutely. I feel in my heart that there are a lot of pedophiles that live in that area. Myers Lake is not a very large lake. It has the bike trail that runs around it.

When my mother and I, the grandmother who was babysitting, when my mother and I went on our search for them, and this was at about a quarter to 3 -- and keep in mind the last they were seen was at 11:30 a.m., when they told mom they were going on the bike ride. So that is the last time they were for sure seen. And now, it`s going on to -- it`s getting close to being a quarter to 3.

We stop at Meyers Lake. I said, "Mom, drive me to Meyer Lake." I had Elizabeth`s older brother who`s 12, Kelly (ph), with us. And I just jumped out and started asking random strangers, "Have you seen two little girls?" Gave them the description, the colors of the bikes, and possibly what they were wearing.

ETA2:

another reference to the 11:30 time frame:

WYLMA COOK, GRANDMOTHER (via telephone): You`re welcome.

GRACE: Ms. Cook, tell me what you saw that day, the day the girls go missing.

COOK: Well, I took her from my house -- I live in Waterloo, and her mom left for work. She rode with me to Heather`s house, my other daughter in Evansdale. And I go there every day for four or five hours, and she always goes with me. And because Heather is not well and she has four little kids. And we did a daily routine that day at, you know, in her house doing things, eating breakfast and all that stuff.

And so it was at 11:30, they asked me if they could go for a short bike ride, and I said yes. And they`ve done this millions of times. And they`ve never, never went that far. I could go outside and yell their names, and they would eventually hear me.

And this day, they just didn`t come back. And so Kelly (ph), Elizabeth`s brother, he`s 12 -- I hopped in my car because the dad came home, and I went searching Elk Run. We were down by Meyers Lake. We drove all over every little park and Evansdale, Elk Run, every mentionable place, downtown area. And we couldn`t find nobody.


ALSO:

GRACE: Wylma, when you saw them right away that day what was your last image of them?

COOK-MORRISSEY: Just the normal image, don`t be gone very long and we realized they left 11:30. By 12:30, we were not happy because they weren`t back. And that`s when Kelly, my 12-year-old grandson from Heather`s house, the dad was home so we went searching right away and by 2:00, Heather couldn`t find them either so she went straight to the police station and the police went out right away.

OKAY________HERE IS WHERE IT SWITCHES FOR SOME REASON:

The video also matches the police timeline. Investigators say the girls left the home to ride their bikes shortly after noon July 13. The camera's clock shows it was 12:11 p.m. when they rode by.


http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-io...deo-elizabeth-collins-lyric/story?id=16850676

==============================================

So for some reason, on july 25th, investigators changed the timeline from 11:30 to sometime after noon. WHY did they do that after the aunt and the grandma were both so specific about the time the girls first left to go riding?

I mean, if the girls first left at noon, and grandma saw them at 12:15, then why the concern at 12:30? She began driving around looking for them 15 minutes after she last saw them?

And why did they say the girls left at 11:30 initially? Wouldn't that be an important detail to have correct in a missing child's case?

 

[Ollipop]

I was simply tossing out a possible scenario of why LE could possibly be requesting cash receipts. I would imagine if someone where purchasing items to make meth they would do so w/ cash so as not to be traced. With them not thinking that dates & times could be matched to cameras in the store & being recognized & ID'ed later.

I don't think common sense & logic is used much by drug addicts or their accomplices or they wouldn't have criminal records already. Perhaps the ones not already spotlighted are doing the buying. ????

MCM was arrested for obtaining ingredients in her past so it isn't to far fetch.

" 'Cook testified that she obtained pseudoephedrine pills from various people and provided them to Scott Reavis, who used them to make methamphetamine,' "

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...zabeth-Collins-cooperating.html#ixzz21qqYGDHS

I understand where you're going with it, but consider that Dan's current legal issues all stem from incidents that happened a year ago, approximately. He has been working with LE, "narc-ing" on people, etc, since then. He was found with baggies of meth in his car, then he beat up Misty, then he got caught again with meth so they searched his house and found the ingredients to make it. All about a year ago, and then nothing since. His wife was convicted in 2004, I believe, maybe even 2003, sentenced to 4 years (of which I believe she actually served much less), then last Jan (again, this is just my understanding of what I've learned/been told), she got a public intox charge, which violated her terms of release, and she was placed back in a facility for 5 months. IMO, if she'd been charged with a meth-related crime, she'd still be serving the remainder of her sentence at this time. AFAIK, she has not been in trouble with meth since her original conviction (correct me if I'm wrong).

Now, I realize drug users are short on common sense (unless we're talking about the millions of users of Viagra, Lexipro, Prozac, Hydrocodone, etc, etc, that also bring with them countless deadly and horrible side effects and can be debilitatingly addicting, but have not had the misfortune of being classified as "illegal"), but to say that, in the midst of all the legal troubles surrounding this family at the time, that they would venture into a local Casey's and attempt to purchase meth-making ingredients is, in my opinion, a stretch. Yes, they've shown poor judgement in the past, and I could believe that Dan is living his recent life with that "nothing left to lose" mentality that goes along with an impending long prison sentence, but I can't fathom that with court dates, UA's, and meetings with lawyers and drug task force members all on his calendar recently, that he also would head over to Casey's to show his ID and sign for some ephedrine (and I'm not even sure they still sell it).

I'm about 80% convinced that the history of this side of the family somehow has bearing on this case. It is possible, yet much less-likely, that this was an insane coincidence of crime-of-opportunity victimizing this family at this time.

Lyric as an unknowing drug mule? Again, possible, but not likely. These people had already been under the microscope for LE for a while before their daughter went missing. I know for a fact that Dan and Misty were in divorce proceedings and there was a no-contact order between them. Does that mean they were abiding to it? No, but obviously recent events have given them cause to get together and discuss people and events from their pasts. When you see video of Drew and Heather, it is clear they act as a couple. I don't get that vibe from Dan and Misty (and apparently she has a boyfriend). I seriously doubt there is any plan concocted between these two that resulted in their daughter's and niece's disappearance. I also seriously doubt that either of these two had been messing with meth in recent months (based on appearances). But people implicated by Dan, or nefarious characters from their past, maybe. Just my opinion, based on my own experience knowing other ppl who've been sucked in to that world.

FTR, I have a very close relative who spent a couple years in prison for his role in meth manufacture. He was convicted of selling ingredients to an organized criminal group in the state, using his access to anhydrous ammonia (as a farmer) and then selling huge tanks of it so they could avoid buying it directly themselves (farmers use it for fertilizer). He was charged, convicted, and sentenced, and he had never tried meth, but was lured by the money he made in the deals. My point is that I have a better-than-outside understanding of that ugly world, and I know that some ppl get mixed up in the drug trade without ever using the drug itself. I also know ppl who claim to have tried meth ONCE. I'm not saying they were successful, but I believe this family was working to put this chapter behind them.

Many are assuming the parents have knowledge that they are not giving LE, but LE has said - other than for a brief day or two - that they are receiving 100% cooperation. I would believe that if the parents had info that could lead to the girls, that they'd have shared it by now.

These families are victims of this crime, at this time, as far as WS is concerned (at least that's my understanding).

 

[LisaB]

I never believed that woman from minute one when she first spokeout. It was so obvious to me and my hubby that she was lying her *advertiser censored** off. We both looked at each other the very first day of her first media stunt and said "omg, she has murdered her little boys.'

But I dont equate what Ms Cook said with what Susan Smith said. SS came right out on day one lying her butt off. I can understand with no sighting of the children for two weeks now it would make someone feel more and more hopeless as each day passes and cause them to be unable to sleep and eat.

IMO

I knew she was lying too. Never believed her, and knew her husband had nothing to do with it. But I sort of felt sorry for her, since she truly seemed remorseful. She made a decision in a moment that changed her life forever.

 

[CHERIE.T]

Also...just now, within the last 5-10 mins, a co-worker messaged me on FB...he says that Wed about 1pm, while I was out of town, he was sittin in his house in W'loo, looked outside the window and saw cops everywhere, and suddenly they pounded on his door. They were swarming canvassing his neighborhood with respect to the missing girls. He says they weren't searching homes, just questioning anyone they saw, stopping cars, knocking on doors. They didn't enter his home, just asked where he worked, how often, and who else lived there. It was a bunch of cops in polos, mostly DCI, there were police vehicles roaming around, etc. They knocked on every door down his street. He lives between Randolph and Wellington on W 7th in W'loo, several miles from the lake. I have yet to be visited by any LE, and I live essentially across the street from the lake.

Olli, THANKS
That's truly invaluable information, imho.
Especially when told by a resident of the area
and reported by you. .

 

[otto]

Respectfully disagree...regardless, I have always believed the children knew their abductors. At this point discussing drug muling is again like discussing what type of plane went through tower one IMO.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2009/05/20/tori-stafford.html

I also find it tough to believe that anyone would take 2 little girls, with all the associated hassle, just to stop DM yapping in court. A bullet would do that a lot more quickly and cleanly. :dunno:

I'm starting to wonder if everyone in this entire family uses meth, more than one generation. It is a fact some members are charged with manufacturing, indeed have served time more than once for it. The trouble with this sort of lifestyle is, it is a diseased way to live, and like any disease, it spreads and has side effects, which harm the innocent.

I'm still playing catch up here...its 5 in the morning and I'm only one coffee in...

The linked 2009 cbc article was from well before the trial. During trial: "In court, McDonald (the victim's mother) admitted she had been to McClintic's (one of the murderers) house twice prior to the kidnapping — once to buy OxyContin from the young woman's mother, Carol, and the second time to discuss the possibility of breeding their dogs." link

There was no connection between the kidnapping/murder and the mother's drug use. There was no relationship between the murderers and the victim's mother, and there was no relationship between the murderers and the victim until the time of the murder.

Similarly, in this case, we have parents that use meth and missing children. Similarly, it seems that many people are asking the same questions: whether that drug use caused the children to go missing. In the case of Victoria Stafford, that drug use had nothing to do with the kidnapping. There was no prior relationship between the mother and the kidnappers.

 

[Evan's Mom]

My dad was an addict/felon, while I can't say for certain that he never had any of us deliver drugs for him. I do know that he would use us to pick up women, so I wouldn't be surprised if he d me a bag and said "oh take this to that man, he dropped it in the parking lot when he got out of his car". I could see that scenario happening and never realizing it happened.

My parents were drug dealers in the 80's when I was a teenager.
Not once did they ever try to involve me or any of my sisters in their "business".
If anything, they tried to hide it from us.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Like I said previously...the original article had information which was later expunged...wonder why...I also wonder who 911 called about the OD...

Ok this will probably get removed but it was a combo of prescription drugs, suicide attempt, her parent's house which may be why they were found so quick.

Victoria Stafford anyone.

 

[SapphireSteel]

The linked 2009 cbc article was from well before the trial. During trial: "In court, McDonald (the victim's mother) admitted she had been to McClintic's (one of the murderers) house twice prior to the kidnapping — once to buy OxyContin from the young woman's mother, Carol, and the second time to discuss the possibility of breeding their dogs." link

There was no connection between the kidnapping/murder and the mother's drug use. There was no relationship between the murderers and the victim's mother, and there was no relationship between the murderers and the victim until the time of the murder.

Similarly, in this case, we have parents that use meth and missing children. Similarly, it seems that many people are asking the same questions: whether that drug use caused the children to go missing. In the case of Victoria Stafford, that drug use had nothing to do with the kidnapping. There was no prior relationship between the mother and the kidnappers.

You seem to be directly contradicting yourself here?

 

[gngr~snap]

Good to know that it isn't just me. I get WIRED and clean my house after I have root canals done!

ME TOO!!! LIKE about to have a baby nesting energy clean!!!!

Were the parents cooking that crap in their home?


Would he not be drug tested wen he arrived at court?
You gonna have a "transaction" here ya don't give that chit away!
So I think no "chores"

ANYWAY!
IMO if there was one (a ciggies pick up) "chore" would be for the girls to ride to get them from someone that does not want to be seen associating with him IYKWIM... bring it back to dad.
who knows!