IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #9

[Considering]

I try really hard to give people the benefit of the doubt. Maybe he just consumes an alarming number of calories in order to bike away that many calories and not be in shape.

I think what really stood out about him was that he rode his bike there the next day and talked to LE and they sent him to file a report. Why didn't he call it in on Friday when the girls were reported missing? I also wonder because he said "little girls bikes" when Lyric was riding a mountain bike.

I am frustrated because it seems like there are so many theories that could work.

The bikes.... You mean the bikes that we have never seen?

I'm pretty sure it was sixteen miles that the daughter said very early on that he rode that Friday.

 

[otto]

I don't want to snark, but that feels a little like victim blaming to me.

That's not victim blaming. Drug abusers are out of their heads, not normal and not taking care of themselves or those around them. Because of this, it's true that children raised by drug abusers have to grow up a little faster and that they may lack the guidance needed to make responsible choices. That may leave them more vulnerable to opportunists.

 

[Sailorsgirl]

I want to ask this again for the hundredth time, .

Has there been any report about a vehicle picked up by the surveillance camera after or right before the girls rode by?

I don't recall ever seeing a post about it here or in any news stories. Perhaps this is the evidence police are holding on to ... they don't want to release the info for fear the person will get rid of or paint the vehicle?

 

[SapphireSteel]

It's obvious, they were abducted by aliens. It's the only thing that fits. Sorry, somebody had to say it. :blushing:

LOL...

I often wonder why the Alien Abduction people are curiously silent when it comes to cases like these...

Almost as if they don't actually believe it happens, either. Ya think?

:ufo:

 

[iamnotagolem]

I don't want to snark, but that feels a little like victim blaming to me.

I don't think it is blaming the victim. I worry that my stepson will be abducted much more often than my own kids. He's from a broken home, his mom & stepdad fight a lot (divorcing now), no drugs involved but I think if he met someone on a gaming site they could give him attention he wants and meet him and whisk him away.

I think kids that come from dysfunctional families are just more at risk.

Honestly, when I was a kid I used to hope I'd get kidnapped, but I didn't have any clue what kidnappers actually did with kids they took. I just thought candy and puppies didn't sound so bad compared to the life I had. But no random stranger wanted me.

 

[RNER]

I never said they couldnt! :maddening:

But the Groene situation was completely different, it wasn't broad daylight in the middle of a popular local recreation spot, so it's apples and oranges.

Where did the meth head guy take them, if he's homeless?

That means you have to add another layer of complication to explain THAT aspect, then also explain why no one saw the tent guy taking the girls, nor why they went with him in the first place? If they did go with them, why did they leave their bikes and throw their purse away?

I believe the most obvious answer is usually the right one.

Someone the knew and trusted intercepted them at that park, they went willingly, the bikes were left.

:sigh:

I think I know your "who" and I see that as a possibility, but why?

 

[Considering]

Isn't Dan originally from Florida?

He was born in CA.

 

[CHERIE.T]

I don't recall ever seeing a post about it here or in any news stories. Perhaps this is the evidence police are holding on to ... they don't want to release the info for fear the person will get rid of or paint the vehicle?

supposing....
LE does have a vehicle on tape, and fingerprints off the bikes, and maybe prints from the drink cans....why no arrest?

 

[SapphireSteel]

I want to ask this again for the hundredth time, .

Has there been any report about a vehicle picked up by the surveillance camera after or right before the girls rode by?

There have been no actual "reports" that I have read, but the FBI spent a day and a half at the shop with the owner, working to identify all the vehicles on the tapes...so yes, it has been done.

I did read the girls were the ONLY people on bikes that day, so that tells me it's a fairly quiet street.

The FBI by now will have a very good idea of what cars and people were about that day, all over town...which is why it is odd that they haven't requested sightings of, say, a black suv or a white van (sexual perverts vehicles of choice btw). They will have traced the cars on the road, the ownership of the cars, where the drivers went, what they bought if they shopped, etc.

God I love cctv Its every where now, and more and more crime is solved because of it.

 

[Sunlight]

Oh crap. Go to the lake, the lake!! Double crap. Thou protesteth too much. Mass coordination. So where are they?

 

[JaimeInLA]

Not a river (too much chance of passers-by).

I do know a really, really lovely pond that is on private property, has trees, is situated between two hills such that it catches any breeze there is. It's quiet, secluded and beautiful.

Going there with my husband and the dogs, making them wait while he fishes and then letting them play in the water? I cannot deny it has crossed my mind.

You know what is hilarious about that? I always read your user name as "Granny-Do" -- and you just gave that a whole new meaning!!:what:

 

[SapphireSteel]

supposing....
LE does have a vehicle on tape, and fingerprints off the bikes, and maybe prints from the drink cans....why no arrest?

No bodies.

:rose:
for Lizzie and Lyric

 

[Sailorsgirl]

They have to find the person in the vehicle ... if, say, they saw a car that a lot of people drive but no plate. Also, not everyone's prints are on record so even if they have a print and want to potentially connect it to a car, they have to find the car and driver first. Not that I know they have a vehicle report or prints, but even if they have both, they still have to connect all those dots, right?

 

[Nvgirl]

It doesnt. I thought she meant there was evidence of the crime that they had collected. sorry.

Oh know need to be sorry it just baffles me, what would be true evidence to say they are alive. Its crazy!!

 

[JaimeInLA]

Oh crap. Go to the lake, the lake!! Double crap. Thou protesteth too much.

And last night: "no, no, no, they DID ride to the lake before! They have friends down there. Forget all you've been told. They DID go down there!!"

 

[katydid23]

I want to ask this again for the hundredth time, .

Has there been any report about a vehicle picked up by the surveillance camera after or right before the girls rode by?

Not that I know of, but hopefully so. Like I said earlier, the last 2 arrests in major cases came from that exact thing.

They caught Sierra Lamar's predator by seeing his red Jetta on camera in both places that were of interest----her last known whereabouts and the place he dumped her belongings.

And of course the infamous white truck in the Mickey Shunick case. They caught him following her bicycle that night.

So I have to believe they are poring through that video and trying to find out who was driving around the girls in the last sighting. I bet they also looked at all of the parking lot vids of the local gas stations and Casey's etc.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Have we talked about this and I missed it? If so, I apologize-- I'm very pregnant and I have a 5 year old, so I'm only on after the little goes to bed and before I pass out.

http://blogs.desmoinesregister.com/...ubpoenas-kwwl-tv-video-in-missing-girls-case/

Yes, it has been extensively discussed.

The answer from the station was that it was a live interview and the "raw footage" was identical to what had been shown.

In general, TV news (and newspaper reporters, etc) destroy their raw material as soon as a story runs because they do not want to be placed in the position of being an unofficial arm of law enforcement.

This has some drawbacks, of course, but a free press is vital to the freedom of the people. It's worth putting up with the drawbacks.

 

[otto]

Oh know need to be sorry it just baffles me, what would be true evidence to say they are alive. Its crazy!!

It's quite simple. There's no evidence that they are not alive.

 

[LittleMissContrary]

A few comments regarding the various theories being considered:

The CL Creeper: Chances of him being involved depend on several factors, having a vehicle to transport the girls, and having a place to transport them to after the abduction.
His ad says he does not have a license and that he bikes everywhere. I thought that was a rather odd thing to say in an ad, especially when trying to entice a woman to meet you.
However, if he has no vehicle, how did he get to the campground with all of his belongings in the first place? If he isn't using a Ron Popeil Pocket fisherman, I would imagine that transporting a tent, sleeping bag, etc., as well as a fishing pole and possibly a tackle box would be rather difficult. We have to assume therefore that he either has a car, has access to a car or vehicle, or has a friend who is willing to drive him around. In that case, the transportation issue is solved.

I have no answers for the second question regarding the location he would have taken the girls to after the abduction.

I am not inclined to think that he was trying to sell children by using "puppy" as a code word, for many reasons. I am curious as to whether or not the puppy was sold before he came to the campground or if he brought the puppy with him. If he had the puppy with him, it could have been used as the bait to lure the girls.

As far as TG is concerned, I think that he is not as accurate with his remembrance of the timeline as we are led to believe, and for that reason I have never been so worried about fitting the sequence of events into the "8 minute" time frame. I don't think that resolving that apparent discrepancy is going to lead to any better understanding of what happened to these girls.

I still think this was a random abduction and that the perp hi-tailed it out of town after the abduction.

 

[SouthernMom]

If they did go with them, why did they leave their bikes and throw their purse away?

Now this is the million dollar question.
I can remember being 10 years old and the warnings I heard from Mom and Dad about leaving my bike somewhere unattended or unchained. My own daughters most certainly wouldn't have left a purse laying on a bike trail unless something wrong had happened. Something out of the ordinary persuaded these girls to leave their valued possessions laying in an isolated area where they could be stolen.
I still think these girls who have been described as inseparable stuck together in danger also.