IA IA - Johnny Gosch, 12, Des Moines, 5 Sept 1982 - What if no ring / No conspiracy?

[Roy Harrold]

Hmmm....

Well, Ms Gosch and Ms Johnson-Holm would also be connected to each other through their mutual acquaintance Tim White. For a connection between Johnson-Holm and Tim White:
http://remoteviewer.nu/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=2665

Tim White is a buddy of Ted Gunderson, a principal "investigator" for both John DeCamp and Noreen Gosch:
http://educate-yourself.org/tw/index.shtml

and "coincidentally" is the person "Jimmy Gibson" fingered as having sent the original pictures to Noreen and all her associates.

These people all know each other, through their mutual participation in the "Patriot Movement" and it's associated AM radio community, if nothing else.

 

[Roy Harrold]

This pedophile ring only kidnaps the children of people who will later become involved in the "Patriot Movement"? That's remarkable precognition...

 

[Roy Harrold]

Excellent background info on some of these folks as well as another means by which they all network - the SRA conference circuit:
http://tinyurl.co.uk/4j9j

 

[cappuccina]

Ms. Johnson-Holm... That's why I have stated many of the things I did about Noreen and this case... Now, I still do not beleive that she harmed her child in any way, I do believe that Johnny was kidnapped - similar to the Jacob Wetterling case...I also believe he was murdered, as predatory individuals who do terrible things to children almost never leave them alive.

I believe that all of the other "stuff" is Noreen's coping mechanism, and shame on people who took advantage of her state to suck her further into this delusional world. I also beleive that the kidnapping of her son and her subsequent mental health issues contributed to the breakup of her marriage. Shame on her husband for not taking the bull by the horns and getting counseling for his family...

I have a question for all of you...I read somewhere that Johnny has two siblings...Is this accurate, and does anyone know their "take" on everything that has happened?

I am also looking forward to Mr. Thomas' commentary on Ms. Johnson-Holm's activities... :dance:

 

[2sisters]

I am also looking forward to Mr. Thomas' commentary on Ms. Johnson-Holm's activities... :dance:

I don't think he will be back, he has to have been banned by now for his comments towrds you and the GFY thing. of coruse he may come in a different name. has anyone wondered if he is in some way involved closely to the case?

 

[cappuccina]

...have gotten to know Noreen personally, or knew her or the family somehow...

I don't think he's banned....He can come back, as far as I am concerned...Obviously, I hit some kind of nerve with what I was saying.... Only he knows why he has an anger management problem... (Hopefully, he does not take it out on his family...)

 

[docwho3]

... Now, I still do not beleive that she harmed her child in any way, I do believe that Johnny was kidnapped - similar to the Jacob Wetterling case...I also believe he was murdered, as predatory individuals who do terrible things to children almost never leave them alive. . .

What you say (that he may have been kidnapped by a predatory individual) is very possible. I am certainly not against the theory.

Note: I know I often sound like I am set on seeing noreen as being guilty of some crime so let me take a moment to explain myself. I do what is similar to working a jigsaw puzzle. I have one part of the puzzle that must be completed and I try all the pieces against that part first to see if any of them fit before trying them elsewhere. I have not been able yet (mostly due to meager case details) to take noreen or her husband off the suspect list so I first look at all her actions in light of the fact that she is still a suspect in her own sons disappearance before I look at those actions any other way. It does not mean that I fail to see other possibilities, just that I start with the most obvious suspect-oriented possibilities and then work outward from there.

However, a puzzle has other parts that need to be completed too and I also work the known pieces against those places, mentally modeling the fit. In this case some of those puzzle places would be the husband, or a neighbor or a relative of a neighbor, and so on, until I find a place that the pieces seem to best fit.

Just a side note: One thing I also can't entirely rule out is that johnny ran away with the assistance of some adult. Knowing that his mom has evinced some possible mental health issues and I have read that the dad "became" abusive, the possibility has occurred to me that both these individuals may have had these same problems before johnny disappeared. Maybe their problems did not start when johnny disappeared and maybe that led to johnny's disappearance in some way. Maybe he even just ran off as unlikely as that may sound.

Or maybe the parents had these problems already but perhaps they only served to cloud the issues after johnny disappeared - who knows.

... I believe that all of the other "stuff" is Noreen's coping mechanism, . . .

You could well be right for all I know. If that is the case it is very sad.

... I have a question for all of you...I read somewhere that Johnny has two siblings...Is this accurate, and does anyone know their "take" on everything that has happened?. . .

Wish I knew their "take." Wish I knew what they know about their family as well as about the whole case since it all seems so intertwined.

 

[cappuccina]

...I really appreciate you taking the time to explain them... You make a good point that if his homelife were unpleasant, i.e., if mom were delusional and dad were abusive, then maybe he could have run away...

Something about this case "feels" like the Jacob Wetterling case to me, though...a local predator...who probably still lives in the area if he is still alive, which I believe to be the case with Jacob Wetterling also....

These people know the area, and would have plenty of chances to quietly stalk or follow children whether they were doing regularly scheduled things like paper routes, or at sports events, etc.

doc, you also bring up an excellent point in reminding us that a family member could have also been responsible. Quesiton for you: Do you know which family members have been officially "cleared" by LE?

 

[docwho3]

...I really appreciate you taking the time to explain them...

You are most welcome.

...Something about this case "feels" like the Jacob Wetterling case to me, though...a local predator...who probably still lives in the area if he is still alive, which I believe to be the case with Jacob Wetterling also....

These people know the area, and would have plenty of chances to quietly stalk or follow children whether they were doing regularly scheduled things like paper routes, or at sports events, etc.....

I see nothing in the case details yet to rule that out. You may well be right.

...Quesiton for you: Do you know which family members have been officially "cleared" by LE?

No, I do not know. I was also keeping in mind possible relatives of neighbors. . like someone that came to visit a neighbor for ahwile and then left after a period of time.

 

[Insguru]

I don't think he will be back, he has to have been banned by now for his comments towrds you and the GFY thing. of coruse he may come in a different name. has anyone wondered if he is in some way involved closely to the case?

From my understanding from several sources, is that there are two older siblings, a sister and brother. We do not know their names or their take on the situation. This is unfortunate for us, because they would at least be able to provide insight to how life was growing up for them in the household. Not to mention I'm sure we would all love to hear their theory on what exactly happened. They've lived with it and were teenagers when it all happened, so I would love to hear what concepts they have developed on this case over the years. Is anyone from Iowa on here and/or does anyone have any knowledge of them? One things for sure, we don't see any public support from them for their mom, especially strange in lieu of the pictures and renewed interest in the case. They are conspicous by their absence, so to speak.

I do not think William will be back either, which is unfortunate because I would love to hear his take on the lady from Seattle and how her son happens to be in this picture, if he is her son. I think he has discussed the case with NG, as he is authoring a book, but I do not believe it goes beyond that. He certainly had a perspective on the case, but I do not think he had any crystal ball either.

I expect more info to be coming soon on this Johnson boy which will help everyone get past the picture issue. I will tell you that for me anyway, if this plays out like it appears to be, I too will subscribe to him being deceased since 1981.

 

[docwho3]

I don't think he will be back, he has to have been banned by now for his comments towrds you and the GFY thing. of coruse he may come in a different name. has anyone wondered if he is in some way involved closely to the case?

That's a valid question and I don't have any facts to base an answer on at this time.

If I were writing a fiction book about a case similar to this one I might well have the perp be a stranger who later interjected himself into the case on the excuse of writing a book loosely based on the case. He would push the conspiracy issue very hard and interject himself into forums on the subject in an attempt to both shape public opinion away from the single perp theory and to keep his ears open to learn what was known about the case and to learn if anyone was getting too close to the truth.

However, in this real life case I have no clue what the guy's real motivations are or how he fits into things. Maybe he just wants to take part in a forum and sell a book - who knows.

 

[Mr. E]

Just a side note: One thing I also can't entirely rule out is that johnny ran away with the assistance of some adult. Knowing that his mom has evinced some possible mental health issues and I have read that the dad "became" abusive, the possibility has occurred to me that both these individuals may have had these same problems before johnny disappeared. Maybe their problems did not start when johnny disappeared and maybe that led to johnny's disappearance in some way. Maybe he even just ran off as unlikely as that may sound.

Or maybe the parents had these problems already but perhaps they only served to cloud the issues after johnny disappeared - who knows.

You could well be right for all I know. If that is the case it is very sad.

Wish I knew their "take." Wish I knew what they know about their family as well as about the whole case since it all seems so intertwined.

Interesting that you say this. I have a friend who lived in the area at the time of Johnny's disappearance. My friend told me that she lived in the area at the time of Johnny's abduction; she said the Gosch family was "weird," but she never elaborated as to what that meant. She said she believed that Johnny never made it out of Des Moines alive. I don't know what to think, with all the theories and sightings that are and have been out there, but from what I've read about Noreen and John, Sr., maybe there is some truth in what my friend said.

 

[kcksum]

I have sent the following email to Noreen Gosch through the website she posts on.I will let you know If I get a response.(I doubt it, but maybe the site will post a new letter from Noreen.)

Noreen,

I have been following this case closely. I don’t expect you to answer me, but I wanted to tell you that people have figured out that you and Johnson Holmes knew each other as far back as 2003. There are archives of the two of you posting about Johnny on threads. She is knee deep in the Alien abduction conspiracy movement and is now coming forward to say that her son is in one of the photo’s. Either this woman is taking advantage of you to gain access into one of the biggest stories in HX…. Or you knew this women before hand and asked her to bolster your claim that the pics are of Johnny. I find it it strange that there is no public record of this womans son going missing, and he is not listed with the doe network or the national center for missing and exploited children. Why didn’t you check out some facts before you posted that this woman says her son is in the photo? Why are you letting people take advantage of your tragedy? Or, why on earth would you support known falsehoods in order to further muck up your sons case?

I hope that one day you can find real closure to your sons disappearance. I hope that you will find a peace that passes all understanding. I am so sorry for you.

Sincerely

KCJONES

we'll see if she'll respond.

 

[cappuccina]

...help to bring her back to reality as well...

Please keep us posted...

docwho3 ... LOL...but I also have the chills from what you wrote

 

[Dr. Doogie]

If I were writing a fiction book about a case similar to this one I might well have the perp be a stranger who later interjected himself into the case on the excuse of writing a book loosely based on the case. He would push the conspiracy issue very hard and interject himself into forums on the subject in an attempt to both shape public opinion away from the single perp theory and to keep his ears open to learn what was known about the case and to learn if anyone was getting too close to the truth.

We should be careful that we don't fall into the equivalent of "Everybody who doesn't believe in a conspiracy must be part of the conspiracy" level of thinking - "Anybody who promotes the conspiracy must be a lone perp covering his tracks".

That being said, there definitely was some sort of agenda beyond the honest view of the facts that seemed to motivate Mr. Thomas. What that motivation was, I have no idea.

And since William is no longer here to retort this suggestion, let me take this opportunity to tell myself: "GFY!"

 

[docwho3]

Interesting that you say this. I have a friend who lived in the area at the time of Johnny's disappearance. My friend told me that she lived in the area at the time of Johnny's abduction; she said the Gosch family was "weird," but she never elaborated as to what that meant. She said she believed that Johnny never made it out of Des Moines alive. I don't know what to think, with all the theories and sightings that are and have been out there, but from what I've read about Noreen and John, Sr., maybe there is some truth in what my friend said.

I wish we knew more about why your friend said what she did, sounds interesting.

 

[docwho3]

We should be careful that we don't fall into the equivalent of "Everybody who doesn't believe in a conspiracy must be part of the conspiracy" level of thinking - "Anybody who promotes the conspiracy must be a lone perp covering his tracks".. .

I agree and that's why I separated the fiction part of the post from the "real life" case part of the post:

. . . However, in this real life case I have no clue what the guy's real motivations are or how he fits into things. Maybe he just wants to take part in a forum and sell a book - who knows. . . .

 

[Dr. Doogie]

I agree and that's why I separated the fiction part of the post from the "real life" case part of the post:

I understand that, my fellow doctor. No one had made an actual statement that William might be the perp, I just wanted to head it off before someone possibly went there.

It will be interesting to see NG's reaction to the email that has been sent. I think this whole thing is about to fall apart...

 

[2sisters]

It will be interesting to see NG's reaction to the email that has been sent. I think this whole thing is about to fall apart...

I hope so, b/c the sooner it does, the investigation might actuall go somewhere.
maybe W.T. is involved with the Holmes lady? I mean he leaves here after saying somehing big was coming and this happened. i am in no way accusing him of anything but it all seems odd...

 

[2sisters]

It will be interesting to see NG's reaction to the email that has been sent. I think this whole thing is about to fall apart...

Her reaction sadly will probably be that kcksum is involved in the ring b/c it seemsthat everyone who has questioned her has been labeled that way.