IA IA - Johnny Gosch, 12, W Des Moines, 5 Sept 1982 - What happened? - #1

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cappuccina said:
...I think that Johnny's mom just "lost it" after her son was kidnapped, and in her grief concocted a fantasy world so that she could cope...One cannot be angry with her; she needs a lot of help. Unfortunately, she was not as resilient as, for example, Patty Wetterling, who channeled her grief and anger into doing some great things to help keep kids safe...

I really subscribe to the Occam's razor theory of crime solving, i.e., that the most simple, unfettered explanation for a crime, is usually the closest to the truth....I cannot say anything negative about Johnny's mom though, as it is easy to see how someone could totally lose it after their child was kidnapped and most likely murdered....
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I agree with you. I dont know all the theories in this case just the basics and it seems to me if she really knew where johnny was why not say so? I would scream it from the rooftops if that was my son that came to see me and never let him go, I feel bad for noreen. I cant imagine what her world is like now.
 
[ Does anyone know if these plastic handcuff ties were being used back in the early 80's?

mjak[/QUOTE]

According to the Flex-Cuffs web-site (originators), they became available in 1965.
 
I couldn't agree with you more Steve. I personally respect you cause you are not always to jump on the bandwagon quickly.
Amy
misterallgood said:
Hey, I've been one of those people who said things like, "fine, be a skeptic." I know that phrases like that really mean that the skeptic is perceived as needling the non-skeptic.

Please do not take my skepticism personally.

As to open mind -- after all the research I've done writing professionally and as a blogger over the last couple of years, I've found that more often than not, the more prosaic answer is the resolution of the mystery. BTK was a nebbishy dog catcher in Park City, not Hannibal Lecter.

Conversely, when the Groene children were first abducted, I just couldn't believe that family had been killed by a sexual predator so motivated to kidnap two children that he would kill three other people with exceptional violence to do so. Turns out I was dead wrong, unfortunately, and that was (allegedly) precisely what happened. I know there are exceptions to all these 'rules.'

I will say this -- one angle I can't even begin to seriously entertain is the Jeff Gannon/James Guckert/Johnny Gosch connection. Guckert is 10 years older than Gosch would have been. How much plastic surgery would Johnny have had to end up looking like Guckert? The bone structure is all wrong.

That said, I know there are a ton of people who can't stand the idea that a story like this may be simpler than it seems. I don't completely reject the idea that some sort of network of sexual predators might have been responsible for Johnny's disappearance as well as some of the photos Noreen has -- but I don't accept it at face value, is what I'm saying.

Steve
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I was lurking on this one, but wanted to chime in that, as disturbing as the photos are (I wish I had not seen them), I agree the fact that Ms. Gosch reported them turning up on her doorstep does NOT mean there is a vast conspiracy of satanic pedophiles in government. We don't know the source of the photos yet. And Ms. Gosch, who has suffered cruelly for decades, has also been the source of dubious claims in recent years, which doesn't help her credibility.

Unfortunately, conspiracy theorists are always claiming that the big proof is just around the corner. Or, that the lack of evidence is a result of how vast the conspiracy is.

I was, for most of my life, a believer in JFK conspiracies, UFOs, Bigfoot, you name it. I've turned reluctant skeptic in recent years. I still want to believe in big conspiracies and supernatural events, but as long as I don't have solid proof, I have to doubt them.

These photos, whether they are real (and they very well might be) or not (which could also be the case), are definitely the work of someone disturbed. Who that is and why they did it are still a mystery at this point.
 
It looks like the boy in the middle is wearing a t-shirt with either a snowman on it or a football player getting ready to throw the ball. What do you think?
 
Although I agree that sometimes the stories regarding Johnny Gosch, the Franklin Credit Union, the Sex ring, Offutt AFB, etc. all sound like the rantings of lunatics, there have been some very mysterious happenings surrounding all of this.

For instance, in 1990, an investigator, Gary Caridori, was killed in a still unexplained plane crash. (The plane "came apart" in mid-air). His briefcase with "key evidence" was missing from the wreckage.

There are many other things, too many to list in a post...l recommend watching the video on the website that Noreen Gosch hosts for Johnny. The website is here: http://www.johnnygosch.com the video is called "Conspiracy of Silence."

Something that wasn't in the video, but is relevent is that the Publisher of the Omaha World Herald (Omaha's only newspaper) in addition to one of it's most popular columnists, Peter Citron, was accused by the children of being part of the sex ring. (Citron was convicted of molestation, but only served a couple of years. That part IS in the video.)
 
Steve, I was impressed with your work on the Groene case, but your belief in absolute Ramsey innocence leads me to not trust your instincts. On that score, I suggest you read the 2000 interviews up at forumsforjustice.org or spend some more time with Tricia.

I don't know if Mrs. Gosch is right about the conspiracy or is being led horribly astray. But since she now is in possession of photos of her son in bondage together with other children, it's clear that this was not the work of a simple garden-variety pedophile.

Either way, she deserves our support and respect as a crime victim. And I have no idea why it confounds you so much that the perp would have changed his clothing. The Austrian girl and Elizabeth Smart should have been dead, but they're not.
 
You know it is going to be hard for LE to say this is a photoshopped pic. First of all the age of the pic should be easy to determine. Second, there are kids there who are tied up, and it will be hard for the public to dismiss that. I wonder if they have sent it in to missing and exploited kids yet?
 
LovelyPigeon said:
Since Noreen claims that Johnny came to see her in 1997, and if the photos are 'real', she might have had the photos since 1997.

In this linked interview, Noreen apparently said that Johnny is going by the names of Jeff Gannon and James Guckert as a blogger or bloggers, working as a reporter "around George Bush": http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2005/03/313178.shtml
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So now we know what name this guy is going by or what names and who he is working around yet he still hasn't ever stopped by to see his mother since he was 24 yrs and hasn't made any phone calls to her. Why? His story is out now and if the bad men were going to do something to him wouldn't you think that they would have done it by now? This just doesn't make any sense to me. After 15 yrs Johnny just casually drops by to talk to his mother and stays for 1 1/2 hours talking and then no more contact. That is what bothers me the most.
 
twinkiesmom said:
But since she now is in possession of photos of her son in bondage together with other children, it's clear that this was not the work of a simple garden-variety pedophile.
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That would assume that the photo is real and, if so, that her son is in the photo.
 
Wow. I have tried not to get sucked in, but I can't help myself.

Many questions come to mind about this story. Some of it seems too out there to be true, but I don't know how much of that is me not wanting to believe something so horrific and frightening.

The one that is really bugging me (at the moment) is from the Educate Yourself link.

http://educate-yourself.org/tg/goschcradiointerview19aug03.shtml

AFP: You also had a mysterious visitor from Washington. Are you still in touch with this person?

NG: Nobody has been able to find him. I have had people looking for him for the last 10 years. He knew a tremendous amount and he was part of the CIA. I think he was sent here to do a job, find out what I knew and how I was proceeding on the case. He was also right by my side when I testified in Washington. About three or four months later he vanished.

AFP: Do you think he had a connection with former CIA Director William Colby who helped his longtime protegee, John DeCamp, in the Franklin affair?

NG: Yes, I think he did have a connection with Mr. Colby.

He had with him-and this is what convinced me-a complete dossier on every member of my family, even those who were deceased. He had information about their lives that could have never been public.

How is it possible that she testified in Washington and this person was right by her side, but no one remembers or knows who this person is? How is there no footage (from CSPAN?) or photos to identify him? You don't just stroll onto the floor of Congress to testify without showing some ID. Ten years they've been looking and can't come up with a picture or a sketch or something?
 
I hate to say this but I think these photos might be doctored...look at the boy on the left...remember that one case where they found photos of a boy and teenage girl bound and gagged missing from New Mexico..............that boy on the left looks like the boy from that photo- the original photo was probably very real............what do you think?
 
kylie said:
I hate to say this but I think these photos might be doctored...look at the boy on the left...remember that one case where they found photos of a boy and teenage girl bound and gagged missing from New Mexico..............that boy on the left looks like the boy from that photo- the original photo was probably very real............what do you think?
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See the postings about this on the first page.
 
I don't think the pics look doctored because the bedcover is messed up in places from the boys laying and moving around, but I did notice that the quilt on that bed is exactly like several that I bought last year at Walmart. I don't remember these type covers being popular at all back in the 80's.
 
Marie said:
That would assume that the photo is real and, if so, that her son is in the photo.
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I agree. There's a lot of assumptions being made. Ms. Gosch claims these photos were delivered to her door. That's entirely possible, maybe even likely, but that's really all that is known. We don't yet know who is in the photos, where they came from, and if they are authentic.

There's a sick mind at work, that much is sure. Everything else is a guess. Unless I missed some hard evidence? :waitasec:
 
Just want to add, now that I've stated my intellectual reaction, my emotional one is, real or not, those pictures creep me out more than I can comprehend.
 
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