IA IA - Johnny Gosch, 12, W Des Moines, 5 Sept 1982 - What happened? - #2

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Noreen Gosch Has been a nut case for many years. That's why she herself associates with these kinds of people. I have a hard time believing that Johnny's disappearance had anything to do with Don King and the Franklin Credit Union. Omaha had thousands of little boys they could have taken. Why would somebody drive all the way to Des Moines to kidnap him? Des Moines is 140 miles from Omaha I highly doubt that somebody got up at about 4 am to drive there in hopes of finding a little boy out on the street that morning. It's sad to say but I think a pedophile got him END of story.
 
I watched the 12 part videos of Noreen on Youtube.
In that video she said that Paul Bonacci 's existence was kept from her by her husband for a long time. That the husband answered the call from DeCamp, and even visited DeCamp on a few occassions about the matter, without her knowledge. She also said he took a Noreen look alike with them, and introduce the woman as Noreen. She says all this is in her book (which I havn't read). She says there is a picture of the Noreen lookalike in the book, and that she has now learned who the woman is.

I havn't seen this bizarre part of the story posted here, and would like to see a discussion on it.

Did DeCamp mention anything about this in his book?

I really can't imagine this happening, but IF it did, how did her husband think he would get by with this? What would have been his motive?

If anyone has read Noreen's book perhaps it goes into more details about this, and would like to know what it says.

I just found this case a few weeks ago, and still trying to sort the riff from the raff.
 
If you have the chance ask Noreen about her son's trip to the church camp he went to 2 weeks prior to his disappearance. Ask her about the guy that ran the camp. I wouldn't believe anything in her book because of her bizarre behavior over the years
 
Teresa Larson, can you explain what you are hinting at regarding camp and Johnny's experiences there?

wherego, yes, in the book Noreen more than hints that her husband was in on Johnny's abduction. I remember her talking about the husband taking Johnny on a tour of Offutt AFB (I think that was the one), and when Johnny returned he was all spaced out and weird and couldn't recall details of the trip. Noreen believed this was all part of that MKUltra mind control thing, and that her husband was setting Johnny up to be abducted and used.

Regardless, no matter what you think about Noreen and her sanity issues, remember that John David Gosch was a real 12-year-old kid, he really did disappear on an early Sunday morning, and he really has not been seen since. There were sightings of him in different places around the midwest and southeast that can't be totally discounted. There was that $1 bill with his name on it that you can't say definitively wasn't written by him, because maybe it was. And while some of those pictures are clearly not Johnny, or have been proven not to be Johnny, some of them could possibly be. Maybe there is at least some truth in Noreen's claims -- that Johnny was stolen, photographed, sexually abused. That doesn't mean all the other stuff is true.

Personally, I think Johnny was stolen by a person or people who used him for child *advertiser censored* purposes, because I think some of those pictures (some of the ones that were on that horrible jacobstales website) are of Johnny. However, I don't think Johnny is alive today. I think they used him and got rid of him when they were done. People who take kids for sex are not interested in them when they are adults. Letting a person go free after that kind of abuse is just guaranteeing that there is a witness out there who can identify you, so why take the chance? It would be nice if Johnny's remains were found/identified someday so this whole mess could be at least partially put to rest.
 
Hello, This is my first time posting here on websleuths website or any other website. I wanted to respond to some of the comments on the kidnapping case of Johnny Gosch. Not to be rude or insulting to anyone here but alot of the comments about Noreen and her investigators as being "nutcases" are unfair at best. Noreen is an inspiration to those who have lost their children through kidnapping or other forms of victimization. She has spent the last 25 years working 3 jobs doing fundraisers,speaches ,hiring investigators trying to find out what happened to her son ,something the Omaha,Des Moines police and FBI have refused to do. Alot of the negative publicity Noreen has received over the years has come from the Omaha World Harold Newspaper whose chief editor at the time was Harold Anderson a suspected pedophile and friend of Lawrence King. Alot of these neagative comments come from an uninformed public who have not researched this case. I recommend that everyone listen to the radio interviews Noreen, Senator De Camp ,NYPD detective Jim Rothstein and FBI agent Gunderson have made with Alex Merklinger that can be downloaded from his website www.mysteriesofthemind.com under the archives section from march,april, 2005 and you will get a more clear understanding of this case. If you are having problems downloading them I will be more than happy to email the radio show archives in mp3 format or on cd through us mail.

Thanks,
rbeck
 
If anyone wants to find out where Larry King is now?

Lawrence E King JR is working for Sterling BMW Dealership in Sterling ,Virginia a suburb of DC as a manager I believe he works for "KILE management services". Their website is http://www.bmwofsterling.com/ Sterling BMW was started by an old friend of Larrys from Omaha Nebraska named Thomas Moorehead in 2001 who also owned a car dealship there back in the early 80s heres an article about him http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1365/is_11_37/ai_n19311510.
Oh and guess what? Lawrence E King is also involved in a childrens charity in Fairfax County Virginia called MCCP Medical Care for Children Partnership. Their website is http://216.92.45.157/ if you click on their list of comitteee members at http://216.92.45.157/involved-council_members.html you will see old Larry King listed as an "Executive Committee Member" as of 2007. Also here are 2 .pdf documents from the Fairfax county office of partnerships website which list Lawrence E King as an advisory council member of MCCP http://166.94.9.135/partnerships/op_annual_report_fy2006.pdf look on page 12

http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/partnerships/partnerswinter2006.pdf look on page 4 Gala 2006 co-chair

Notice how these old pedophiles always try to find a way to be around children in some way such as school bus drivers, day care workers or involved with childrens charities??

rbeck
 
I am a good friend of one of the Private Investigators that worked on Johnny's case. There are some things about this case that have never been brought out and never will be. I do not mean to be rude about Noreen but she hindered her own son's case. I guess the best way to put it is knowing her and watching how she handled this over the years. The Omaha Police know Noreen all too well also. IF Johnny was being held captive what's keeping him from coming home? He is an adult not a child now.


We all have our own opinions I may not agree with you but I respect your opinion! :)
 
Rbeck, I have meant no disrespect by referring to Noreen as mentally ill. hell, who can blame her for being mentally ill? I can not even let myself imagine how I would feel or what it would be like to have a child abducted. IMO, i think she has dreamed up this scenario and has been manipulated in her poor mental state. I just don't belive this whole story. I think Johnny is dead and has been since the day he vanished, I cannot blame her and do not judge her at all. he was a sitting duck and a pervert saw him and an opportunity and the real abductor/murderer has gone free all this time and has likely killed and hurt and other child since then b/c of this wild story and those manipulatingand enabling her.
I agree with teresa, she has hurt this case and I am sure LE wants no involvement with her or this case now.
 
I am a good friend of one of the Private Investigators that worked on Johnny's case. There are some things about this case that have never been brought out and never will be. I do not mean to be rude about Noreen but she hindered her own son's case. I guess the best way to put it is knowing her and watching how she handled this over the years. The Omaha Police know Noreen all too well also. IF Johnny was being held captive what's keeping him from coming home? He is an adult not a child now.


We all have our own opinions I may not agree with you but I respect your opinion! :)

Teresa I have several questions here if you dont mind

What is your P.I. friends name?
How long did he/she work on this case and when?
What are the things about this case that were never brought out?
How do you know theses things?
How did Noreen "hinder her own son's case" ?
I noticed that you are from Nebraska were you living there when this whole thing happened in the 80's?
you respect my opinion about what?

to answer your questions
Johnny is not being held captive now He escaped from his kidnappers when he was 18 or 19 years old and he did come home in 1997.
The Police are the ones who "hindered her sons case" more than anyone The Omaha and Des Moines police chiefs were on the take they were being paid off by Larry King.
I highly recommend you listen to Noreens interviews with Alex Merklinger they are 3 hour interviews uninterrupted and are very informative she does not in any way sound like shes crazy.

I dont want to put you on the spot by asking so many questions i just was very curious about what you said

Thanks,
rbeck
 
Rbeck, I have meant no disrespect by referring to Noreen as mentally ill. hell, who can blame her for being mentally ill? I can not even let myself imagine how I would feel or what it would be like to have a child abducted. IMO, i think she has dreamed up this scenario and has been manipulated in her poor mental state. I just don't belive this whole story. I think Johnny is dead and has been since the day he vanished, I cannot blame her and do not judge her at all. he was a sitting duck and a pervert saw him and an opportunity and the real abductor/murderer has gone free all this time and has likely killed and hurt and other child since then b/c of this wild story and those manipulatingand enabling her.
I agree with teresa, she has hurt this case and I am sure LE wants no involvement with her or this case now.

Hi, thanks for replying .Im not sure what you mean when you say LE wants no involvement with her what does LE stand for?
I was wondering who are these people that you think are manipulating Noreen? From what I have seen and heard over the years Noreen is not the kind of woman that can be manipulated she seems to really stand up for herself. I mean she threw a coffee cup at an FBI agents head and ran them out of her house once I wouldnt mess with the lady to be honest with you.

Thanks,
rbeck
 
LE is short for law enforcement.
Like i said, it was all my opinion. i think these whackos have gotten ahold of her (for example, Patricia JohnsonHolm) and have manipulated her. i have no inside info, my opinion is just based on feeling, that's all. throwing stuff at FBI angents trying to assist you is why people think she is mentally ill and hindering the case.
 
I was wondering who are these people that you think are manipulating Noreen?

The most obvious nutcase is Patricia Johnson-Holm who claims that it is her son David in the picture of the three boys that Noreen believes includes Johnny. For a complete list of her lunacies, I would suggest that you go to her forum and see for yourself what a kook she is, but here is a little taste: She believes that blood banks are not using their supplies for medical emergencies, but are using it to feed reptilian aliens who survive on human blood.

When Noreen was informed of exactly what sort of nonsense PJH was promoting, she never distanced herself from her. Instead, Noreen accused those who were trying to warn her of potential damage to her reputation of harrassing and threatening her. She never recanted her statements about the boy being David Johnson, even after it was shown that David was alive and well - his "abduction" (if it happened at all) was a three hour event that ended when David came out of a neighbor's house. PJH has concocted an elaborate hoax saying that this boy who claimed to be David was not him, but his twin who was stolen at birth and was raised for the purpose of making the switch (for what purpose, only a crazy person could imagine). And Noreen still stands by this woman.

Another example is Jim Rothstein who breathlessly announced that he had a picture of an older Johnny Gosch with George HW Bush that would blow the lid off of the Franklin conspiracy. When the picture was finally released, it was a ridiculous forgery that someone had Photoshopped into Johnny standing behind Bush during a "meet and greet" campaign stop. Now if Johnny was being held captive as a sex slave to Bush Sr., do you think that Bush would parade him around during public campaign stops?

I could go on down the list. Gunderson? Claims that the abducted children are being used as slave laborers at underground bases for the reptilians. Tim White? A homeless transvestite who never met a conspiracy theory that was too far out. The only big player in this case that does not stand out as a loon is DeCamp. He may be legit or he may just be smarter than these other clowns and does not leave a paper trail of craziness. For me the jury is still out on him.

These are the people that have ruined Noreen's reputation - at least in my eyes. Noreen accomplished great and valuable things as an advocate for changing the way that our law enforcement (LE, by the way) investigates missing children. But when she joined up with these clowns, she cannot be surprised when people begin to assume that she is a clown too.
 
Teresa I have several questions here if you dont mind

What is your P.I. friends name?
How long did he/she work on this case and when?
What are the things about this case that were never brought out?
How do you know theses things?
How did Noreen "hinder her own son's case" ?
I noticed that you are from Nebraska were you living there when this whole thing happened in the 80's?
you respect my opinion about what?

to answer your questions
Johnny is not being held captive now He escaped from his kidnappers when he was 18 or 19 years old and he did come home in 1997.
The Police are the ones who "hindered her sons case" more than anyone The Omaha and Des Moines police chiefs were on the take they were being paid off by Larry King.
I highly recommend you listen to Noreens interviews with Alex Merklinger they are 3 hour interviews uninterrupted and are very informative she does not in any way sound like shes crazy.

I dont want to put you on the spot by asking so many questions i just was very curious about what you said

Thanks,
rbeck


First of all I would NEVER reveal the Private Investigators names that I know. Besides what difference does knowing their names make? I will tell you they worked on this case for a long time. I have lived in Nebraska my whole life so yes I was living here then. I didn't mean my statements as questions literally Think about what I stated. IF Johnny got away then why is Noreen still searching for her missing child? The police did NOT hinder this case I have no idea where you got any of this information from but it's not correct. I'm sorry but I wouldn't listen to anything Noreen has to say this many years later WE here in Omaha have heard plenty of her BS for years. IF Johnny came home in 1997 then where is he now?
 
First of all I would NEVER reveal the Private Investigators names that I know. Besides what difference does knowing their names make? I will tell you they worked on this case for a long time. I have lived in Nebraska my whole life so yes I was living here then. I didn't mean my statements as questions literally Think about what I stated. IF Johnny got away then why is Noreen still searching for her missing child? The police did NOT hinder this case I have no idea where you got any of this information from but it's not correct. I'm sorry but I wouldn't listen to anything Noreen has to say this many years later WE here in Omaha have heard plenty of her BS for years. IF Johnny came home in 1997 then where is he now?


exactly, and if Johnny were still alive he could contact his mom without anyone in the world knowing it and end her sorrow and paranoia once and for all.There is only one reason he hasn't....he's gone. He met the same fate as many other sad little boys and girls have over the past century.
Did some people at the Franklin credit union get their rocks off looking at kiddie *advertiser censored* and molesting boys? maybe. Was it a national conspiracy involving everyone from George Bush to Richard Nixon to Bill Clinton?......not hardly.I think her intentions are golden, however, I think her broken heart led to denial which has led to delusion.:(
 
The most obvious nutcase is Patricia Johnson-Holm who claims that it is her son David in the picture of the three boys that Noreen believes includes Johnny. For a complete list of her lunacies, I would suggest that you go to her forum and see for yourself what a kook she is, but here is a little taste: She believes that blood banks are not using their supplies for medical emergencies, but are using it to feed reptilian aliens who survive on human blood.

When Noreen was informed of exactly what sort of nonsense PJH was promoting, she never distanced herself from her. Instead, Noreen accused those who were trying to warn her of potential damage to her reputation of harrassing and threatening her. She never recanted her statements about the boy being David Johnson, even after it was shown that David was alive and well - his "abduction" (if it happened at all) was a three hour event that ended when David came out of a neighbor's house. PJH has concocted an elaborate hoax saying that this boy who claimed to be David was not him, but his twin who was stolen at birth and was raised for the purpose of making the switch (for what purpose, only a crazy person could imagine). And Noreen still stands by this woman.

Another example is Jim Rothstein who breathlessly announced that he had a picture of an older Johnny Gosch with George HW Bush that would blow the lid off of the Franklin conspiracy. When the picture was finally released, it was a ridiculous forgery that someone had Photoshopped into Johnny standing behind Bush during a "meet and greet" campaign stop. Now if Johnny was being held captive as a sex slave to Bush Sr., do you think that Bush would parade him around during public campaign stops?

I could go on down the list. Gunderson? Claims that the abducted children are being used as slave laborers at underground bases for the reptilians. Tim White? A homeless transvestite who never met a conspiracy theory that was too far out. The only big player in this case that does not stand out as a loon is DeCamp. He may be legit or he may just be smarter than these other clowns and does not leave a paper trail of craziness. For me the jury is still out on him.

These are the people that have ruined Noreen's reputation - at least in my eyes. Noreen accomplished great and valuable things as an advocate for changing the way that our law enforcement (LE, by the way) investigates missing children. But when she joined up with these clowns, she cannot be surprised when people begin to assume that she is a clown too.


Hi, thanks for replying and thanks for your opinion.
1. I have definatley heard of Patricia Johnson-Holms she should just be ignored all together. She is probably some opportunist trying to latch on to this story for attention or money.

2. Tim White? never heard of the guy how is he involved with Noreen?

3. Ted Gunderson has been had been attacked , sued ,threatened with murder of himself and his daughter ,intimidated for years ever since he has been trying to expose violent satanic cult activity in the US particularly in southern California I wish you could post a link or quote something where you claim FBI agent Gunderson mentions reptilian aliens? very bizarre. I know he does lectures at conspiracy conventions where some other speakers might talk about this subject and he used to host a radio show in the 1990s which dealt with conspiracy theories maybe he had a guest on the show that talked about reptilians but does that mean the radio host agrees with this theory also? Here are some facts not opinions about Ted. He was one of the youngest agents in the history of FBI back in the 50s. He was head of the Memphis, LA FBI field offices. worked with FBI counter intelligence during the wategate scandal. Received 1977 Law Enforcement Officer of the Year Award from the AFL-CIO ,1979 Distinguished Alumnus Award from the University of Nebraska in Recognition of Distinguished and Devoted Service to His Country,PAN AMERICAN GAMES San Juan, Puerto Rico - Security Coordinator,Anti Terrorism Consultant Los Angeles Olympics 1984.Consultant for California Narcotics Authority

4.Noreens other P.I. NYPD detective Jim Rothstien did mention a picture of President Bush that was sent to him at a meet and greet with several young people shaking hands with a boy in the background that kind of looks like Johhny Gosch but how does that discredit Jim?? detectives get sent false leads and bogus information all the time so what? .My friend Michael "Augie" Augustine who is a former Bronx NYPD detective remembers Jim very well from his days with NYPD in the 70s Jim is a respected vice detective with 25 years experience busting pimps, extortionists and pedophile groups in some of the worst slums of New York.

5.As far as senator de camp . John is a Vietnam vet former infantry captain worked with Army intel with William Colby who went on to be head of the CIA, ran for nebraska state senate from vietnam and won .his opponents even called him one of the most effective legislators in nebraska history.He lead the nebraska republican party during the GOP convention in 84. he also helped with forming operation baby lift which rescued hundreds of vietnamese orphans from south vietnam during the fall of saigon in 1975.and most people dont know that John was an orphan himself raised in a catholic orphanage and was a victim of sexual abuse at a young age .John actually traveled to Rome and met with then Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger in the vatican during the late 80s to discuss sexual abuse in the American RC church and trying to get the vatican to do something about it. if "the jury is still out on him" I vote He is a very accomplished man who really wants to help victims.Some of these people are not "clowns" they have devoted much of their life trying to help victims like Noreen and to expose corruption in government

by the way Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger is now know as Pope Benedict XVI
 
LE is short for law enforcement.
Like i said, it was all my opinion. i think these whackos have gotten ahold of her (for example, Patricia JohnsonHolm) and have manipulated her. i have no inside info, my opinion is just based on feeling, that's all. throwing stuff at FBI angents trying to assist you is why people think she is mentally ill and hindering the case.

These FBI Agents were not trying to assist her at all. if you want to know the whole story what pissed off Noreen so bad when she threw her coffee cup at him was 2 or 3 years after Johhny was kidnapped another boy in iowa from a wealthy prominent family was kidnapped the FBI found him within 24 hours. Two Agents came over afterwards one sat down in johnnys chair at their dinner table and told Noreen see how quickly we found this child its because he is important and from a wealthy family She basically lost it. If he said that to me I personaly would have royally beat his you know what. I dont blame her a bit.
 
Rbeck, I am sorry and I mean no disrespect but I do not belive a word of that. That is such BS. I am not saying you are lying but you were definetly mislead. There is no way 2 FBI agents came to her house and told her her son was not important b/c they were not wealthy and thay they do not try hard to aid familys that are not wealthy. I do not belive that. FBI agents search for missing kids daily whether they are black, white, rich or poor.
 
4.Noreens other P.I. NYPD detective Jim Rothstien did mention a picture of President Bush that was sent to him at a meet and greet with several young people shaking hands with a boy in the background that kind of looks like Johhny Gosch but how does that discredit Jim?? detectives get sent false leads and bogus information all the time so what? .

Most detectives (private or otherwise) would quadruple check their facts before going on a mass media outlet and accuse a former president of the United States of buggering kidnapped children. Rothstein below vouches for the photograph and his source.

Source of below quote: http://www.freedomunderground.org/view.php?v=3&t=3&aid=23079

The ArcticBeacon website is reporting that a picture showing Poppy Bush with John Gotch has shown up recently through the private investegations of Jim Rothstein. the former New York City police detective that headed up the pedophelia investegations tied to the John Gosch kidnapping. Rothstein announced on Greg Szymanski's Investagative journal Internet and shortwave radio show of which ArcticBeacon is a part:



"We haven't gone public with the photo but it was sent to Noreen Gosch, Johnny's mother, who has been trying to find her son since 1982," said Rothstein Tuesday when he appeared as a guest on The Investigative Journal. "I have been helping her try to uncover the huge pedophile ring which took her son for the last two years and the recent photos that surfaced showing Johnny and other kids bound a gagged was a big break-thru.

"The one picture definite shows Bush Sr. and I know they will try to hit us hard and discredit us once we go public with it. The source is credible and connate be revealed for obvious reasons, but the Noreen is being discredited by the media while the FBI is in charge of protecting the high level officials involved instead of trying to help Noreen find out what happened to her son, Johnny, who was caught up in the biggest pedophile ring in our country involving our top leaders.
 
2. Tim White? never heard of the guy how is he involved with Noreen?

Tim White is an associate/defender of Ted Gunderson. He also is in direct contact with Noreen.

There are numerous posts on the web for and about Tim White and his involvement with Noreen. He is a link that reposts a message from Tim White were he mentions being in contact with Noreen:

http://barbarahartwell.blogspot.com/2006/11/open-letter-to-noreen-gosch.html

It is quite a ways down on a very long page (sorry!).
 
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