IA IA - Johnny Gosch, 12, W Des Moines, 5 Sept 1982 - What happened? - #2

[Dr. Doogie]

1. I have definatley heard of Patricia Johnson-Holms she should just be ignored all together. She is probably some opportunist trying to latch on to this story for attention or money.

I agree, but it is Noreen's lack of discernment that concerns me here. With PJH being such a whack job, Noreen proved to me that she will latch on to any possible explaination for Johnny's disappearance (even the crazy ones). If Noreen cannot or will not specifically say that she was duped by Holm, then it is hard to take anything that Noreen says as truth. If she simply said "I made a mistake", then for me, all would be forgiven and I would start to believe her again. Until then, not a chance.

 

[laini]

Teresa I have several questions here if you dont mind

What is your P.I. friends name?
How long did he/she work on this case and when?
What are the things about this case that were never brought out?
How do you know theses things?
How did Noreen "hinder her own son's case" ?
I noticed that you are from Nebraska were you living there when this whole thing happened in the 80's?
you respect my opinion about what?

to answer your questions
Johnny is not being held captive now He escaped from his kidnappers when he was 18 or 19 years old and he did come home in 1997.
The Police are the ones who "hindered her sons case" more than anyone The Omaha and Des Moines police chiefs were on the take they were being paid off by Larry King.
I highly recommend you listen to Noreens interviews with Alex Merklinger they are 3 hour interviews uninterrupted and are very informative she does not in any way sound like shes crazy.

I dont want to put you on the spot by asking so many questions i just was very curious about what you said

Thanks,
rbeck

It's not Des Moines Police Dept, it's West Des Moines Police Dept. Two totally different police departments. And I don't believe they were paid off by anyone to not solve the case. That's crazy.

 

[2sisters]

This is just all ridiculous! Come on people! Are we to belive that FBI only wants to find missing kids that are important and rich or that police depatments are being paid off not to investegate missing kids, they took money and ignored a boy being raped and molested? it is so ridiculous! A presidential molestation club? I am not buying it.
Nobody cares what Noreen has to say anymore BECAUSE of what she has said in the past, and that is too bad b/c that means this case will never be solved, we will be lucky if it is even investegated for an hour on a slow day. I wouldn't want anything to do with her or this case if I were LE, heck everyone but her has been labelled a pedophile.

 

[gidget641]

This is just all ridiculous! Come on people! Are we to belive that FBI only wants to find missing kids that are important and rich or that police depatments are being paid off not to investegate missing kids, they took money and ignored a boy being raped and molested? it is so ridiculous! A presidential molestation club? I am not buying it.
Nobody cares what Noreen has to say anymore BECAUSE of what she has said in the past, and that is too bad b/c that means this case will never be solved, we will be lucky if it is even investegated for an hour on a slow day. I wouldn't want anything to do with her or this case if I were LE, heck everyone but her has been labelled a pedophile.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: Well said 2Sisters!

I have several problems with this case. I too sadly believe it will never be solved because of Noreen's past actions.

Yes she did pioneer the movement to have missing children placed on milk cartons and that was a good thing. But some of her other actions and associations have portrayed her as someone who is not 'thinking clearly' to put it nicely.

I fully believe that 'IF' a person did visit Noreen claiming to be her son, he was not. If he was WHY is she still searching for her missing son? 'IF' this person that visited her was her son, he would be an adult, he could speak out about all the abuses he suffered. He would be such a public figure that he would essentially be safe, and not in any danger, because to hurt him would be proving the allegations to be true.

I know I have posted this before but I would like to know what Johnny's father thinks about Noreen's views on what happened to their child. Does he believe that he made a middle of the night visit to his ex wife? And why in the heck has he not been screaming for answers?

 

[mjak]

These FBI Agents were not trying to assist her at all. if you want to know the whole story what pissed off Noreen so bad when she threw her coffee cup at him was 2 or 3 years after Johhny was kidnapped another boy in iowa from a wealthy prominent family was kidnapped the FBI found him within 24 hours. Two Agents came over afterwards one sat down in johnnys chair at their dinner table and told Noreen see how quickly we found this child its because he is important and from a wealthy family She basically lost it. If he said that to me I personaly would have royally beat his you know what. I dont blame her a bit.

It is stories like this one that ony add to the lack of beleivablity of Noreen. There is no way I can accept this could have happened. It is just rediculous as far as I am concerned. It is just one more tale to add the rediculous pile that has been complied by Noreen for years and years. I honeslty feel she is mentally Ill and feel sorry for her. I read her book and it shouts of mental illness. Have you read her book? the saddest part of all is that probably no one wants to look for Johnny anymore because anyone who gets involved eventually runs the risk of being labled pedafile. Dr. Doogie has complied excellent evicdence which paints the real sad picture of Noreen IMO.

mjak

 

[Teresa Larson]

Originally Posted by rbeck
These FBI Agents were not trying to assist her at all. if you want to know the whole story what pissed off Noreen so bad when she threw her coffee cup at him was 2 or 3 years after Johhny was kidnapped another boy in iowa from a wealthy prominent family was kidnapped the FBI found him within 24 hours. Two Agents came over afterwards one sat down in johnnys chair at their dinner table and told Noreen see how quickly we found this child its because he is important and from a wealthy family She basically lost it. If he said that to me I personaly would have royally beat his you know what. I dont blame her a bit.

rbeck are you a friend of Noreen's? You sure seem to think you know a lot about this case. I don't know where you got any of your information . How long have you known about this kidnapping? I have known and heard plenty about it since the day Johnny came up missing. For one thing a pedophile from Omaha Nebraska is not going to drive 140 miles to kidnap a little boy We had / have plenty of them right here. There were plenty of possibilities (suspects) in his own town. A few people that should have been investigated weren't because Noreen wouldn't allow it because of religious reasons. IMO I am not so sure Noreen shouldn't have been investigated too. There is one thing you all have to consider if you haven't already. Who ever got Johnny KNEW he would be out early that day delivering newspapers. I have always believed who ever got Johnny was an acquaintance of his.

 

[Mr. E]

I thought the father usually went with Johnny on those early morning deliveries, but that this one time he didn't. That this was the day someone was waiting to abduct Johnny seems more than a coincidence to me. I am distrustful of both parents. Noreen because she is just so out there (although I don't think she knows really what happened to her son), and John, Sr. because he has always seemed suspicious to me. Like he knew more than he was saying.

 

[thefragile7393]

If I may put in my quiet opinion, and I admit I am nowhere near on the level of those on here with their knowledge of this case......I'm not sure what to think anymore. I'm in the middle of watching Ted Gunderson's documentary on Noreen's website......and it's all just so....:waitasec:

I wouldn't be surprised if one of those boys in those pictures on her site is him,it looks, IMO, almost exactly like him!

I don't know if he's dead or alive.....I don't think he visited her that one night, and I definitely don't think there is a ring of pedophiles that goes all the way up to the US govt.

Honestly I think the truth is somewhere in between. I honestly feel that Johnny's case and Eugene Martin's case is connected, I feel a pedophile did take them. I'll go as far to say that those pictures could have been sent to her by this person. Honestly I don't think it goes any further then that, and all this other stuff, the Franklin Cover-Up, all of this got Noreen involved and now it's turned into one big crazy mess. I haven't formed an opinion about the father yet, and I haven't read her book yet...I will have to order it as no local libraries have it. It also wouldn't surprise me if there is an amount of fishy stuff going on in the White House.....but not to THIS exent!

I don't know the first things about sleuthing and finding people, so I never feel I'm very helpful on here...I usually just quietly sit back and read and watch...so if any of my thoughts don't jive, please take that into consideration.

 

[laini]

. IMO I am not so sure Noreen shouldn't have been investigated too. There is one thing you all have to consider if you haven't already. Who ever got Johnny KNEW he would be out early that day delivering newspapers. I have always believed who ever got Johnny was an acquaintance of his.

And the first time he would be alone - that morning when he picked up his papers was the first time ever without his dad. Something fishy there. You're right - seems only someone close would know that.

Can you say more about Noreen not wanting some investigated because of religious beliefs? I don't recall that.

The fact Noreen threw coffee at FBI agents means absolutely nothing IMO. I can't say I would or wouldn't do that in frustration, but it's really beside the point. It doesn't do anything to prove her story is true.

 

[laini]

If I may put in my quiet opinion, and I admit I am nowhere near on the level of those on here with their knowledge of this case......I'm not sure what to think anymore. I'm in the middle of watching Ted Gunderson's documentary on Noreen's website......and it's all just so....:waitasec:

I wouldn't be surprised if one of those boys in those pictures on her site is him,it looks, IMO, almost exactly like him!

I don't know if he's dead or alive.....I don't think he visited her that one night, and I definitely don't think there is a ring of pedophiles that goes all the way up to the US govt.

Honestly I think the truth is somewhere in between. I honestly feel that Johnny's case and Eugene Martin's case is connected, I feel a pedophile did take them. I'll go as far to say that those pictures could have been sent to her by this person. Honestly I don't think it goes any further then that, and all this other stuff, the Franklin Cover-Up, all of this got Noreen involved and now it's turned into one big crazy mess. I haven't formed an opinion about the father yet, and I haven't read her book yet...I will have to order it as no local libraries have it. It also wouldn't surprise me if there is an amount of fishy stuff going on in the White House.....but not to THIS exent!

I don't know the first things about sleuthing and finding people, so I never feel I'm very helpful on here...I usually just quietly sit back and read and watch...so if any of my thoughts don't jive, please take that into consideration.

Hey fragile, I agree with your thoughts! I think Eugene and Johnny may be connected and a pedophile, and the photos look real. I also don't think the pedophile ring goes all the way up to top of the government. Yeah, we know there are pedophiles at the top of the government (who was that senator last year?), but they can get their fixes in other secret ways - the less people that know what they do the better, so I don't believe they are in a huge government pedo ring. (now am I making sense? LOL).

You will definatley have to read Noreen's book. It is really something. I laughed a lot at the things she said, but it is sad to read, too.
Please don't sit back and hesitate to post! Your thoughts make a lot of sense.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

thefragile7393:

Thanks for posting. I also agree with most of your post. The one exception would be that I disagree that Johnny may be one of the children in the photos. Notice the long series of photos of the one boy that Noreen believes is Johnny. Then notice the one photo posted of an unknown boy that she asks if anyone recognizes. To me, they look the the same child, just that the "unknown" picture is him at a younger age. And, most importantly, that younger age is too young to be Johnny. (I believe that this is the reason that Noreen does not see the similarity in the "two" boys - it would require her to admit that this is not Johnny.) I have recently obtained Photoshop and will isolate the faces of all the pictures and lay them side-by-side, rotated to the same perspective. I belive that then it will be obvious that they are all the same child...and not Johnny.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

BTW: I want to thank everyone who has posted so far at the level of politeness and respect that they have shown. This case, far more than any other that I have seen, brings out passions and strong opinions and it can easily degenerate into name-calling and flames. Good job everybody! Lets keep it up! :clap:

 

[2sisters]

BTW: I want to thank everyone who has posted so far at the level of politeness and respect that they have shown. This case, far more than any other that I have seen, brings out passions and strong opinions and it can easily degenerate into name-calling and flames. Good job everybody! Lets keep it up! :clap:

You are so right. This case is a hard one to remain civil over and i think we should all be proud. Although my last few posts may have been a little rude the rudness wasn't directed at the poster I replied to.

 

[2sisters]

Here's a thought: IF there is this huge geovernment conspiracy with George Bush other presidents, government agencies and other government officials molesting kids and Noreen has uncovered this and is letting it be known what is going on, why hasn't she been silenced yet? You would think if she had ousted the government for being elected pedophiles then the government would have "disposed" of her.

 

[Teresa Larson]

Here's a thought: IF there is this huge geovernment conspiracy with George Bush other presidents, government agencies and other government officials molesting kids and Noreen has uncovered this and is letting it be known what is going on, why hasn't she been silenced yet? You would think if she had ousted the government for being elected pedophiles then the government would have "disposed" of her.

Noreen didn't uncover anything. She's a kook!! Government officials know they have nothing to worry about. You are getting a little carried away here. It was a boy from Des Moines Iowa that got kidnapped not 100 kids. I highly doubt elected officials had anything to do with this. This is a very simple case A pedophile from the area kidnapped him PERIOD!! I also think it was somebody he knew!! IMO

 

[2sisters]

Noreen didn't uncover anything. She's a kook!! Government officials know they have nothing to worry about. You are getting a little carried away here. It was a boy from Des Moines Iowa that got kidnapped not 100 kids. I highly doubt elected officials had anything to do with this. This is a very simple case A pedophile from the area kidnapped him PERIOD!! I also think it was somebody he knew!! IMO

I think you misunderstood, I don't belive what she says at all. I think he has been dead since the day he vanished or shortly after. That was my point, if she had anything wouldn't they have gotten rid of her?

 

[Dr. Doogie]

I think that both of you are in complete agreement. I just think that Teresa may have missed the "IF" in your rhetorical statement.

 

[2sisters]

I think that both of you are in complete agreement. I just think that Teresa may have missed the "IF" in your rhetorical statement.

Correct, I belive everything she has brought to this discussion.
Theresa, is it possible for the investegator you know to come join us or no? I am sure he can't but it would be interesting.

 

[Teresa Larson]

[SIZE=
3]I am sorry 2sisters You are correct I did misunderstand you. I will ask my P.I. friend some more questions about when he worked on this case and see what other information I can post. He did say that he wanted to investigate the counselor at the church camp that Johnny had been to 2 weeks prior to him being kidnapped but Noreen wouldn't allow them to. I guess she didn't believe that a religious person could be a pedophile. [/SIZE]

 

[Teresa Larson]

[SIZE=]A few more things.... There was a P.I in Des Moines that was a suspect at one time in Johnny's kidnapping. Has there ever been any mention of him? Also I think the Franklin Credit Union ordeal was more about gays than pedophiles. Another thing does anybody know what happened to all of the money they got from the candy bars etc??? I would imagine there was a lot $$ made off of that. Did the deceased P.I. from Omaha get most of it? [/SIZE]