thefragile7393
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He dosn't look like an older JG to me at all.....not in the least.
IA IA - Johnny Gosch, 12, W Des Moines, 5 Sept 1982 - What happened? - #2
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thefragile7393
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Looks like on the 14th of this month Noreen posted another picture....same kid as previously pictured. Dr. Doogie makes a good case for it NOT being him, but at the same time, it really looks like him to me. So hard to tell. I'm open to the idea that some part of Noreen's thinking is right....but which part I'm not sure.
Hey thats not what i am saying ??? do you read with your eyes open? John Gosch sr thats Johnnys father looks a heck of alot like Jeff Gannon others have noticed this as well on other blog sites. look at the picture of Johnnys father from noreens book (if you bothered to even read it) taken when he was in his 40s and compare it to Gannons picture .I have shown both these pictures to people at work who know absolutely nothing about johhny gosch and 100% have told me these 2 men look related either father/son or brothers
You need to trust Noreen after all its her child she raised for 12 years I think she can recognize him.Dr Doogie never met the boy how can he or anyone else even comment about it not being him thats good enough for me and her thinking is right
In the new photo you can see a laundry bag in the background with the name "camp caribou" This is a summer camp located in Maine it is still operational today.Interesting how that debunker ex cop Nelson Zalva claims that these pictures were taken in Florida back in th 70s .why would they travel all the way to Maine to go to summer camp?
by the way Zalva has done some investigative work for Jeb Bush and now works for the DAs office in Hillsborough County Fl you know those same jerks who like to torture handicapped people in their prison. i wouldnt trust the *advertiser censored*
thefragile7393
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Oh calm down rbeck!! I wasn't making a comment towards what YOU were saying, I was making a statement that I didn't think it looked like Johnny himself!! I had never compared pictures of the two before and made a general comment; I have yet to compare pictures of dad and son to make an agreement or disagreement so I didn't allude to it in my comment. Apparently YOU don't read with your eyes open, because if you did you would remember my post that I HAVEN'T read either book yet, although I PLAN to. Don't get so bent out of shape and take things out of context!
oh ok enough with your insults i had flashbacks of the crap spewed out by other folks on here totally misinterpreting everything i said sorry now get busy with your reading assignment
Here is a really good interview with NYPD Detective Jim Rothstein talking about the new picture of Johhny on Noreens website this past week.He also talks about his older pedophile cases where he busted a guy named Ben Rose who was procuring kids for sex for diplomats and government officials at the UN building in New York it got covered up by our government. I have talked with my friend who was a detective in NYPD about this case myself its fascinating stuff but some of you still dont want to believe our government would do something like that so you may want to just skip it and pretend it didnt happen
http://arcticbeacon.com/audio/2008/2008-LRN/02-2008-LRN/0214-2008/0214-2008-LRN-Hr1-Hr2.mp3
The kid and the setting are similar to many other photos that Noreen claims are Johnny. I, too, think the boy looks like him, but there is no hard proof of that.
However, what does this photo have to do with the Florida photos debunked by former detective Zalva? The Florida photo showed three boys in a completely different setting. I don't that that photo and the other photos Noreen claim show a bound and gagged Johnny are related.
However, what does this photo have to do with the Florida photos debunked by former detective Zalva? The Florida photo showed three boys in a completely different setting. I don't that that photo and the other photos Noreen claim show a bound and gagged Johnny are related.
HUH? "a completely different setting" just how different is lying on a bed bound and gagged? The only thing different i see is the boy is flipped in the other direction and is wearing a different pair of pants .sure the background (walls,bed,furniture)is different but this photo could have been taken in the next room.
You are not going to find any "hard proof" finding out what happened to Johnny. most of the proof has either been destroyed, intimidated into silence or murdered . Like most things you have to use faith, trust and common sense and try to see through the bull *advertiser censored*. Be skeptical but not in a lazy way. dont just sit back and believe some detective when he says these photos are not kidnapped children.
Please dont tell me you actually believe Nelson Zalva? He is nothing but a liar. the man claims he arrested the guy taking these photos back in 1979 but now he claims he cant find any criminal records or court records about this arrest to prove it? And hes a 30 year veteran detective. Come on!!! give me 30 minutes and access to the lexus/nexis database of court records and i can find it. Zalva hasnt done a thing but try to cover this up and discredit people. These photos are of course related .The "new" photo that was released last week Feb 14 really isnt new. it was sent to noreen close to the same time the others photos were sent why she just put it up on her website i dont know but i guarantee you this Zalva character will try to blow it off and dismiss it also like he did the other pictures. I would dismiss anything Zalva says hes a shady character Hes trying to divert attention away from finding Johnny Gosch.
dorca the just
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Here are a couple more things added into the mix that I just don’t get.
First, again I’d be one helluva lot more inclined to believe Gosch was simply disposed of after his kidnapping but for all the evidence. Nothing against anyone who believes the subsequent supposed evidence about what happened to him is little more than a hoax. Trouble I have with this premise is why? Who, if anyone besides JG, wrote “Johnny Gosch was here” on that bathroom wall, and why did he do it? Are there any independent forensics experts who can even place a little doubt on that dollar bill he supposedly wrote on? If so, who are they? To my knowledge they never came forward. Could be wrong.
And who exactly was the boy in March of ’83 who begged that Oklahoma woman for help? Who, if not JG? If not JG, then why? It wasn’t as though his case was that prominent at the time, so my inclination is to believe she saw and heard what she saw and heard. Of course, this does not exclude the possibility that the woman in question was simply seeking attention to herself, but then why? Was she trying to be a hero or whatever?
But then, something’s been bothering me. I’ll spell it out for all it’s worth, and it revolves again around who is Jeff Gannon.
See, there’s no real way to prove whether JG did or did not see his mother back in ’97. Maybe we can trust her words. Maybe it all happened. But there’ve been a couple of interviews with Gannon that are still very much present on the Internet. Now, I never met JG in my life, but assuming that there’s anyone out there who knows/knew him as an adult, has there never been anyone out there who recognized Gannon’s voice as that of the adult JG? Does Noreen, for instance? If the two JG initials are one in the same, it seems to me that her memories of what her son sounded like in ’97 would have been seared into her brain never to be erased. I can tell you for sure that as a blind person, a person’s voice is the first thing I notice, and some are just too unforgettable. So given the gravity of what supposedly occurred here, I just find it a little iffy that anyone who knew his voice as an adult would have forgotten it. Ain’t saying it couldn’t happen, just doing a musing/pondering exercise, which after all is what this is all about anyway.
As for why Gannon didn’t do a DNA test, I’m thinking like an attorney here for a few moments. Someone proffered here that Gannon was outright lying about being Gosch. Sorry, but it’s my impression he denied being Gosch. But then my memory isn’t always perfect, as my wife will attest.
Let’s look at it through the eyes of someone trying to prove a child’s paternity. Nowadays you naturally do this via a DNA test. In other words, if someone slapped me with a paternity test and I knew damned straight I wasn’t the father of that child, nothing in this galaxy, real or imagined, would keep me from proving my case with a DNA test. Similarly, if I’m truly not JG, which by the way I’m not, I’ll lock horns with Satan and Christ themselves to prove I’m not. So, too, if I’m the father of the kid in question, or if I’m JG, I would be thoroughly disinclined that anyone find this out. I’d use any trick in the book I had, legally or extralegally, to ensure my anonymity.
Hence, I’m not saying Gannon is Gosch. I’ve no way of comparing the pictures at all. I will say that I have some trouble not believing Gannon is in fact not Gosch given the absence of genetic evidence — evidence that Gannon himself controls as long as he refuses to take a DNA test. Given what we know and don’t actually know, it seems to me that the only way the Gannon matter can be laid to rest firmly is simply to somehow compel or trick him into conducting the test. If he’s not JG, well, the worst that happens is that we still don’t really know where JG is or what ultimately happened to him, and all the opinions and surmises in the
world that don’t lead to hard evidence won’t buy us a thing unfortunately.
First, again I’d be one helluva lot more inclined to believe Gosch was simply disposed of after his kidnapping but for all the evidence. Nothing against anyone who believes the subsequent supposed evidence about what happened to him is little more than a hoax. Trouble I have with this premise is why? Who, if anyone besides JG, wrote “Johnny Gosch was here” on that bathroom wall, and why did he do it? Are there any independent forensics experts who can even place a little doubt on that dollar bill he supposedly wrote on? If so, who are they? To my knowledge they never came forward. Could be wrong.
And who exactly was the boy in March of ’83 who begged that Oklahoma woman for help? Who, if not JG? If not JG, then why? It wasn’t as though his case was that prominent at the time, so my inclination is to believe she saw and heard what she saw and heard. Of course, this does not exclude the possibility that the woman in question was simply seeking attention to herself, but then why? Was she trying to be a hero or whatever?
But then, something’s been bothering me. I’ll spell it out for all it’s worth, and it revolves again around who is Jeff Gannon.
See, there’s no real way to prove whether JG did or did not see his mother back in ’97. Maybe we can trust her words. Maybe it all happened. But there’ve been a couple of interviews with Gannon that are still very much present on the Internet. Now, I never met JG in my life, but assuming that there’s anyone out there who knows/knew him as an adult, has there never been anyone out there who recognized Gannon’s voice as that of the adult JG? Does Noreen, for instance? If the two JG initials are one in the same, it seems to me that her memories of what her son sounded like in ’97 would have been seared into her brain never to be erased. I can tell you for sure that as a blind person, a person’s voice is the first thing I notice, and some are just too unforgettable. So given the gravity of what supposedly occurred here, I just find it a little iffy that anyone who knew his voice as an adult would have forgotten it. Ain’t saying it couldn’t happen, just doing a musing/pondering exercise, which after all is what this is all about anyway.
As for why Gannon didn’t do a DNA test, I’m thinking like an attorney here for a few moments. Someone proffered here that Gannon was outright lying about being Gosch. Sorry, but it’s my impression he denied being Gosch. But then my memory isn’t always perfect, as my wife will attest.
Let’s look at it through the eyes of someone trying to prove a child’s paternity. Nowadays you naturally do this via a DNA test. In other words, if someone slapped me with a paternity test and I knew damned straight I wasn’t the father of that child, nothing in this galaxy, real or imagined, would keep me from proving my case with a DNA test. Similarly, if I’m truly not JG, which by the way I’m not, I’ll lock horns with Satan and Christ themselves to prove I’m not. So, too, if I’m the father of the kid in question, or if I’m JG, I would be thoroughly disinclined that anyone find this out. I’d use any trick in the book I had, legally or extralegally, to ensure my anonymity.
Hence, I’m not saying Gannon is Gosch. I’ve no way of comparing the pictures at all. I will say that I have some trouble not believing Gannon is in fact not Gosch given the absence of genetic evidence — evidence that Gannon himself controls as long as he refuses to take a DNA test. Given what we know and don’t actually know, it seems to me that the only way the Gannon matter can be laid to rest firmly is simply to somehow compel or trick him into conducting the test. If he’s not JG, well, the worst that happens is that we still don’t really know where JG is or what ultimately happened to him, and all the opinions and surmises in the
world that don’t lead to hard evidence won’t buy us a thing unfortunately.
I think writing "Johnny Gosch was here" or writing Johnny Gosch on a dollar bill is exactly the type of think a mischievous kid would do. I'd be hard pressed to believe a child would beg for help as a prank though. I don't follow this story with a microscope so I admittedly don't know all of the ins and outs but are there witnesses to the incident with the child begging for help? With any luck, one way or another DNA will somehow solve this case someday. There is reasonable doubt in nearly every angle of this case regardless of where one stands.
dorca the just
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Yes, some kid might have written this message on the dollar as a prank, and that makes some sense given the time and the place the dollar bill was found. I venture to submit that JG’s case was pretty prominent in the month of July 1985, especially in West Des Moines and the cities immediately surrounding it such as Sioux City, where it was actually found. Interestingly enough, this is where NG claims her son was taken immediately after he was kidnapped. Another interesting point is that NG would not learn of this information until years after this dollar bill incident.
What disturbed me then and now when I heard about it was the fact that three forensics experts clearly identified the signature and handwriting as Johnny’s when compared with other handwriting samples his parents apparently had prior to his disappearance. I’ll allow that other experts may disagree, but I simply haven’t heard any refutation of the allegation here. In the absence of such refutation by opposing experts, I’m afraid that this particular court (me) is forced to conclude that the note is authentic and that JG did indeed write that message. The same is true for the message written in nail polish in Colorado. This Court will allow the introduction of new evidence, however, in the event that such exists.
As for the Oklahoma incident, I don’t know of any witnesses other than the woman who reported the incident to authorities in or about Oct. of 1983. But if it’s true that the incident itself occurred in March of that same year, it would only have been six months since the disappearance, and at a time when the case hadn’t yet become overly prominent, though I myself first saw a news article about it in December of 1982. That’s what started me obsessing over it as long as I have. Either way, though, I agree with you that a DNA test of Gannon would be a step in the right direction, at the very least. If he’s not JG, then we won’t know anything more once the results are in than we did before the test was taken. As long as there’s no cooperation on Gannon’s part where this test is concerned, though, I remain suspicious of the possibility that he could in fact be JG. If he is, somebody ought to pay dearly for the things they’ve done.
What disturbed me then and now when I heard about it was the fact that three forensics experts clearly identified the signature and handwriting as Johnny’s when compared with other handwriting samples his parents apparently had prior to his disappearance. I’ll allow that other experts may disagree, but I simply haven’t heard any refutation of the allegation here. In the absence of such refutation by opposing experts, I’m afraid that this particular court (me) is forced to conclude that the note is authentic and that JG did indeed write that message. The same is true for the message written in nail polish in Colorado. This Court will allow the introduction of new evidence, however, in the event that such exists.
As for the Oklahoma incident, I don’t know of any witnesses other than the woman who reported the incident to authorities in or about Oct. of 1983. But if it’s true that the incident itself occurred in March of that same year, it would only have been six months since the disappearance, and at a time when the case hadn’t yet become overly prominent, though I myself first saw a news article about it in December of 1982. That’s what started me obsessing over it as long as I have. Either way, though, I agree with you that a DNA test of Gannon would be a step in the right direction, at the very least. If he’s not JG, then we won’t know anything more once the results are in than we did before the test was taken. As long as there’s no cooperation on Gannon’s part where this test is concerned, though, I remain suspicious of the possibility that he could in fact be JG. If he is, somebody ought to pay dearly for the things they’ve done.
You are just a bit confused. Gannon never claimed to be Gosch. In fact, he said he was NOT Gosch. Noreen and her handlers made the claim, not him.
It is well documented that he is who he says he is, a guy named Jeff Gannon, who went to high school (well documented) and college (well documented) under his real name, Jeff Gannon. You can research all of this if you will take the time to find it. You can even research his activities during his fraternity days if you are interested.
Where in the world did you get the understanding that he claimed he was Gosch? He has no interest in a DNA test because he thinks the whole thing is assinine.
Then where did people get the theory that they were the same? I am not the only one asking about the DNA so why single me out and act like I am a moron?
You are right, I am confused. Are they saying Johnny is someone else or not?
You are right, I am confused. Are they saying Johnny is someone else or not?
I have been looking at the new picture posted by Noreen Gosch and I have a few thoughts on it. It looks to be the same boy as pictured in the older pictures posted by Noreen. Since he is facing the opposite direction I think it could very well be the same location. We are just seeing another part of the room. The bag from a Maine camp does not mean the photo was taken in Maine. Lots of children travel to go to sleep away camps. Lots of people, myself included have bags from all over the place in their homes. I noticed the back of the head by the neck area and it looks like it has been photoshoped or altered in someway. I am no expert on this so take my observation wtih a big grain of salt. I do not think this p hoto or the earlier ones show boys playing around. The look, scared, dirty and maybe even drugged to me. I do think this boy resembles Johnny Gosch but I deffinitly do not think the resemeblence is such to idenitfy this boy as Johnny.
mjak
mjak
AussieLela
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Jeff Gannon is only a THOUGHT TO BE JOHNNY because of all the things people have added.. Like the J G initials.. Its said that Jeff often went by alias with the J G names.. When he was in the presidential mess people were just putting 2 and 2 together .. Personaly I don't think they are one in the same .. As Noreen herself stated on the stand once -- Johnny visited her in the early hours years ago and verified what Paul Bonacci had said.. Then Noreen herself would know if Jeff was Johnny . Johnny told her he could not come out of hidding because he knew to much..- Places and faces............
2 Sisters - Sorry for my tone....I didn't mean to single you out at all. For some reason there are several posters that have posted somewhat recently, that are under the impression that Gannon claimed to be Gosch.
The theory that Gannon might be Gosch did start back when Gannon got caught up in the whitehouse mess. But Gannon did not start it. As someone just pointed out correctly, it was started by others, Noreen bought into it a bit (i think now she has backed out), and Gannon thought it was absurd.
I myself have researched this along with many others on here (months back- see the posts), and there is much evidence of Gannon's family, his friends that grew up with him, etc.....His age is also off. He is from PA if i remember correctly.
I have no idea why recently several of the members have been led down the path recently that Gannon claimed to be Gosch.....
No worries! I appreciate the apology.
I have a question that maybe is meaningless, but did he deliver any papers that morning at all? I was just curious if he immedialty dissappeared upon leaving his home.
This case caertanly is a confusing one. I am thinking about making a thread that soley list facts to catch newer folks up, but I realized there really aren't any it seems. The only concrete thing anyone has is that he hasn't been seen since delivering papers that morning.
Not sure if this has been posted before, I found this googling Johnny.
http://www.infowars.com/articles/media/gannon_is_he_johnny_gosch.htm
boy are you way off .there are plenty of concrete facts out there. to answer your question Johnny didnt get to deliver any papers before he was kidnapped and thrown into the car. He was walking with his wagon to the paper drop on the corner where the other boys were getting their papers ready to deliver. a man stopped asked directions. Johnny didnt like him and told the other boys "im going home somethings not right about him". The man followed johnny and snatched him somewhere between there and his home.
If some of you were wondering about how this whole "Jeff Gannon maybe Johnny Gosch" thing first started was back in Feb 2005 at one of W Bushs press conferences. Gannon (then an unknown reporter) started asking Bush softball easy to answer questions almost like he was a plant. Some of the other liberal reporters were getting upset at Gannon and started posting messages on a website called democraticunderground.com and americablog.com asking who is this Gannon person. the people on these websites started researching and theorizing who he was and started looking up info on him. they found out that he was a male escort, doesnt have a journalism degree and supposedly graduated from west chester univeristy under the name James Guckert and was in the tau kappa epsilon fraternity.doing some research i found a .pdf document of minutes of a tau kappa epsilon alumni meeting mentioning "JD GUCKERT"
here is the link http://www.tkema.com/minutes/Minutes-2003 Aug 24.pdf . Look on Page 7 of the pdf document where it says
Jody Yozviak was absent but sent a report and JD Guckert was busy entertaining the Prime Minister of Great Britain (not a joke).
Also researching court records on him I have found lawsuits out there from the 90s where a defendant named "James D Guckert" owned 2 liquor distribution businesses in pennsylvannia and was being sued .You can still go to the democraticunderground.com website archives and view all the posted messages. there are literally thousands from feb 2005 to march 2005 everyone including the media was trying to findout who Gannon was. Some anonymous post on there claimed he was "kidnapped paperboy Johnny Gosch" and the news media first picked up the story from these 2 websites.
AussieLela
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I know that this link may have been added here a million times but I think it is realy useful in understanding the BIG PICTURE....
http://johnnygosch.com/
This is Noreens personal page and goes into great details of the whole event. Also has many links to different things outlining the events and so. Please be aware it does contain pics that are quite disturbing ( NOTHING OF A SEXUAL NATURE) . Many people have said how they think Noreen is a little crazy but personaly I think she is a wonderfuly strong women who has put herself at risk to uncover what realy happend. And who wouldnt be a little messed up knowing this happened to their own child..
I often hear people make comments like " What a spaced out theory she has " But HELL, ALL OF US HERE KNOW WHAT HORRID THINGS CHILDREN SUFFER AT THE HANDS OF MUNGRELS LIKE THIS.. And when you get alot of them together anything is possible...
GOD BLESS YOU JOHNNY , WERE EVER YOU ARE....
IMO I am not WAY OFF as you put it. The only solid facts are in that he dissppeared delivering papers. That's it. This pedo ring, etc is not a fact at all.
No offense but do you really have to be so condesending and rude to posters who do not agree with your theory? I am so tired of reading your snarky comments to other people who are just trying to make sense of this. I understand you are very close to this case someway or another but try to talk to other posters with some respect please. Thanks! have a great day!:blowkiss:
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