IA IA - Johnny Gosch, 12, W Des Moines, 5 Sept 1982 - What happened? - #3

[ladygator]

Thought this might help give some information regarding Noreen and Paul Bishop.....

http://www.total411.info/2005/02/franklin-cover-up-figure-arrested-on.html

From one of the links within...

I can also confirm Mr. Evans is the teacher from Hayfield. It is 79/80 when "Pappy" (George Paul Bishop) and Mr. Evans meet. Bishop was in the Coast Guard at the time, stationed down the street from Hayfield High School.

Bishop was arrested between Sept 84 & Sept 85 in Alexandra for having sex with a 12 year old boy. The crime took place at Oak Wood apartments (Duke Street & Van Dorn). He fled to California (San Francisco or San Diego). He was hiding behind a marriage, saying he and his wife (Teresa) could not have children, and being a “big brother” to children of single mothers. He fled California after charges where filed there. Returned to VA, disappeared again, and apparently returned again.

http://www.democraticunderground.co...show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3155132#3159035

Has anyone been able to find this arrest record? Or, because he fled, he was never convicted? When he was arrested in 2005, wouldn't the past charges catch up to him? Is this poster saying that charges were also filed against him in Cali which made him flee to Virgina, again?

This is the same exact time period that I know for fact, where he was working, in Fairfax.

The link provided to a news article is no longer viewable.

 

[dorca the just]

Roy, that’s true. I only speculated whether or not it disappeared by now, or rather deteriorated, because I played cassette tapes so often over the years that the next thing I knew, they had completely vanished from inside the cartridge. Again, though, a valid point: Such evidence would be invaluable in the EM disappearance, or in any potential hoaxes regarding one or both boys’ disappearances. Either way, if it exists, no one can ever say that NG is lying about that.
As for the visit in ’97, I’m not saying she lied there either, just for the record. I just wonder if it’s remotely possible that she was either duped or, somehow, whether or not she might have dreamed the whole thing and is now convinced it really did happen. However, I do applaud her efforts, as have others, with regard to missing kids and working with law enforcement and legislation that would further their cause. I do hope answers are found, however, and that she is not becoming, or already has become, a dupe to right-wing weirdoes who believe the world is only ten thousand years old. (Yes, they exist.)

 

[Roy Harrold]

From one of the links within...

I can also confirm Mr. Evans is the teacher from Hayfield. It is 79/80 when "Pappy" (George Paul Bishop) and Mr. Evans meet. Bishop was in the Coast Guard at the time, stationed down the street from Hayfield High School.

Bishop was arrested between Sept 84 & Sept 85 in Alexandra for having sex with a 12 year old boy. The crime took place at Oak Wood apartments (Duke Street & Van Dorn). He fled to California (San Francisco or San Diego). He was hiding behind a marriage, saying he and his wife (Teresa) could not have children, and being a “big brother” to children of single mothers. He fled California after charges where filed there. Returned to VA, disappeared again, and apparently returned again.

http://www.democraticunderground.co...show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3155132#3159035

Has anyone been able to find this arrest record? Or, because he fled, he was never convicted? When he was arrested in 2005, wouldn't the past charges catch up to him? Is this poster saying that charges were also filed against him in Cali which made him flee to Virgina, again?

This is the same exact time period that I know for fact, where he was working, in Fairfax.

The link provided to a news article is no longer viewable.

How about a letter to law enforcement, from one of us, raising the possibility that the recently released (yes?) GPB could be the Paul Bishop that the mother of missing boy Johnny Gosch's mother believes came into her life 6 months after his disappearance, and was in Des Moines area when Eugene Martin disappeared?

I'm suggesting it come from one of us, or at least not come from Noreen, Gunderson or Rothstein, because Noreen doesn't seem to trust legitimate law enforcement these days and they may have lost patience with her & her "investigators" a long time ago.

If there was to be such a letter, I think it would be important to acknowledge that there are a lot of wild theories about the Gosch case, but that we are only asking law enforcement to look into the possibility that GPB might have been in the Des Moines area acting suspiciously around the time that two boys went missing there.

If anyone thinks this is a good idea, I'd nominate Shadow & Lady Gator to jointly compose one. If anyone thinks this is a really bad idea, please do say so and explain why you think that.

Oh, and also - who to send such a letter to? Fairfax Virginia PD? The FBI?

 

[shadowraiths]

How about a letter to law enforcement, from one of us, raising the possibility that the recently released (yes?) GPB could be the Paul Bishop that the mother of missing boy Johnny Gosch's mother believes came into her life 6 months after his disappearance, and was in Des Moines area when Eugene Martin disappeared?

Great idea but do you honestly believe that has not already been done? Perhaps you missed this comment in my original post wrt GPB?

Even so, that I know of, that angle has been explored by the FBI. But that is all that I know.

 

[Roy Harrold]

Great idea but do you honestly believe that has not already been done? Perhaps you missed this comment in my original post wrt GPB?

No, I remembered that you had said: "Even so, that I know of, that angle has been explored by the FBI." but I also remembered Ladydragon correcting her assumption that Noreen Gosch had brought GPB to the attention of the FBI a long time ago.

I trust you. If you are saying that you know, definitively, that the FBI has already explored possible link between GPB & Gosch/Martin disappearances - then I believe you. But wouldn't that make him a dead end for us?

 

[Roy Harrold]

Roy, that’s true. I only speculated whether or not it disappeared by now, or rather deteriorated, because I played cassette tapes so often over the years that the next thing I knew, they had completely vanished from inside the cartridge. Again, though, a valid point: Such evidence would be invaluable in the EM disappearance, or in any potential hoaxes regarding one or both boys’ disappearances. Either way, if it exists, no one can ever say that NG is lying about that.
As for the visit in ’97, I’m not saying she lied there either, just for the record. I just wonder if it’s remotely possible that she was either duped or, somehow, whether or not she might have dreamed the whole thing and is now convinced it really did happen. However, I do applaud her efforts, as have others, with regard to missing kids and working with law enforcement and legislation that would further their cause. I do hope answers are found, however, and that she is not becoming, or already has become, a dupe to right-wing weirdoes who believe the world is only ten thousand years old. (Yes, they exist.)

I'm more concerned that Noreen Gosch might have become "a dupe" to right-wing weirdos who believe the Federal government of the U.S. should be eliminated by force so that their private 'armies' can take control of individual states.

 

[shadowraiths]

I trust you. If you are saying that you know, definitively, that the FBI has already explored possible link between GPB & Gosch/Martin disappearances - then I believe you. But wouldn't that make him a dead end for us?

Not really, imho, bc this prospect was only raised with them recently. I would assume (but could be wrong) that it will take time for them to track things down in order to rule him in/out of the Gosch equation.

 

[Roy Harrold]

Not really, imho, bc this prospect was only raised with them recently. I would assume (but could be wrong) that it will take time for them to track things down in order to rule him in/out of the Gosch equation.

Ok. Thanks for the clarification.
Wait, and see, I guess.

 

[ladygator]

It seems to me that I don’t think this was ever brought up in prior threads, so I’ll post it for consideration.
In interviews with Ted Gundersen, NG claimed to have had a tape of a conversation between herself and a guy warning of the impending abduction of another paperboy. She shopped it around to LE and the media, but no one paid her heed at the time. Then EM was abducted.
I wonder where the tape is now. As far as I know, a digital rendition was never released on her website for all and sundry to hear. I wonder why. I imagine, however, that if it ever existed at all, and I’m not saying whether it did or didn’t, it’s probably deteriorated with time over the past 24 years or so. It would boost NG’s credibility, however, if this tape could somehow be found. Or maybe it wouldn’t.

I just stumbled upon an article lastnight that talks about this tape. A Sam Soda, who was also talking with Bishop, according to Noreen.

Good question, where is the tape now?

 

[shadowraiths]

More fodder for your cannons:

October 16, 1984

​

 

[shadowraiths]

We have enough information to conclude that Noreen has been victimized by hoaxes at least three times

There's actually another case.

March 23, 1984

​

NB: I'm in the proc of compiling the news articles relating to this case. Unfortunately, photobucket (or any other image server, for that matter) is not conducive to managing the 200+ news clippings. So, I will most likely write a widget to provide various sorting/search options (i.e., by year, names, places, subjects, types of reports, etcetera). That, of course will take some time. Esp due to my present commitments. But hopefully, I'll get the thing put together in the next week or so.

 

[shadowraiths]

Here's the bit about the DMR employee:

October 17, 1984

​

 

[Roy Harrold]

Much appreciated, Shadow!
Keep 'em coming.

 

[shadowraiths]

Who is Frank Sykora and why might we care? I threw his name into Google for the hallibut. Interestingly (or perhaps not so), a myspace page, bearing same said name shows as the first entry. Is this the Frank Sykora who allegedly confessed to sexually abusing at least 7 boys during his employment with the Des Moines Register? It seems so, as per the info this individual has on his page:

Frank Sykora's Schools
Iowa Lakes Community College South Cam
Emmetsburg,IA
Graduated: N/A
Degree: In Progress
Major: Accounting Specialist
2005 to Present

Iowa Lakes Community College
Estherville,IA
Graduated: 1992
Student status: Alumni
Degree: Associate's Degree
Major: Electronic Technology
1989 to 1992

East High School
Des Moines,IA
Graduated: 1965
Student status: Alumni
1962 to 1965
Degree: High School Diploma

(emphasis added, mine)​

Very odd, imho. Just as it is odd that Noreen Gosch states the following in her deposition before the court:

June 13th of 1984 1 was contacted by a man in Des Moines, Iowa by the name of Sam Soda. He was a private investigator. He told me, and I taped the conversation, he told me that there was going to be a second kidnapping in Des Moines. That it would be the second weekend of August, it would be another paperboy, and that it was already in the works. And I asked him why he was telling me and he said, well, you seem like the type that would do something about it. So I took my tape recording and I went to the Des Moines Police Department. They laughed at me. They wouldn't even listen to my tape. So then I went to the TV stations and I played it for them. As a matter of record. So it was on record. The other person I told was Karen Bums with ABC 20-20, because 20-20 came to Des Moines to do our story. The second weekend in August came and, sure enough, Eugene Martin was kidnapped. From the south side of Des Moines just as the informant had said. That man still walks the streets. The Des Moines police were not all that interested in why he was giving me the information. What they did to me instead was put a gag order on me so I couldn't talk about it at that time. They had forewarning that Eugene Martin was going to be taken and they did nothing. It was a planned kidnapping just as my own son's was.

Full article: click here

And yet, much later Paul Bonacci is to allege that Sam Soda was involved in Johnny's abduction.

"At a later time, Bonacci correctly identified a picture of Sam Soda of Des Moines, Iowa, from a line-up of 20 photographs, as the man who brought the photograph of Johnny to the motel. Bonacci also indicated Sam was there watching as Johnny was repeatedly sexually abused while being photographed. (Rusty Nelson reported Sam Soda as the man who introduced him to Larry King.)"

Full article: click here

Recall, this is the same Sam Soda who uncovered the sex offender, Frank Sykora, working at the Des Moines Register. Ignoring the obvious question, why the heck didn't they arrest and convict Sykora, there does appear to be a repetitive theme. One that certainly seems to suggest some sort of coverup.

 

[Roy Harrold]

Very odd, imho. Just as it is odd that Noreen Gosch states the following in her deposition before the court:


Full article: click here

And yet, much later Paul Bonacci is to allege that Sam Soda was involved in Johnny's abduction.

Full article: click here

Recall, this is the same Sam Soda who uncovered the sex offender, Frank Sykora, working at the Des Moines Register. Ignoring the obvious question, why the heck didn't they arrest and convict Sykora, there does appear to be a repetitive theme. One that certainly seems to suggest some sort of coverup.

Do we know that Sykora was never arrested or convicted? The article you posted only says that, at that time, they had no victim statements to proceed from.

A good question is - who was Sam Soda working for? If he's a private investigator, he's probably not doing this work for free! In the first article you posted about Sam Soda & Sykora, Soda is described as living in Omaha, Nebraska - not in Des Moines Iowa as Noreen seems to be saying.

The logic of Noreen's analysis is faulty, also. As previously stated, Eugene Martin being alone on the day of his abduction was a random, unpredictable event. Therefore, Martin couldn't have been specifically targeted for abduction in advance. The purpose of someone "leaking" information about an abduction, to someone like Noreen rather than directly to law enforcement, and then having the prediction come true but involving a randomly targetted boy, seems more likely to have to do with generating credibility for the source of the prediction than anything else.

Of course, we only have Noreen's statements about all of this. We don't have confirmation of the existence of the tape, her playing it to anyone, or even the alleged gag order, from any other sources. Do we?

 

[Roy Harrold]

As previously noted, a similar problem exists with Bonacci's statement about Sam Soda ( on top of the fact that Bonacci is himself a convicted child molestor & perjurer) - Johnny Gosch was never alone delivering his papers except for the day that he went missing. Therefore, he seems unlikely to have been "targetted in advance".

Also, if Sam Soda was part of a conspiracy to kidnap boys as Bonacci claims, why is he trying to turn in a confessed molestor of newsboys, and why would he give Noreen advance warning of a kidnapping plot?

Similarly, if "Paul Bishop" was involved in a conspiracy to kidnap boys, why would he go to Noreen Gosch and tell her that her son was tagetted by exactly such a conspiracy?

If there was some kind of "cover-up" going on, it can't have been a cover-up of child abduction rings - since there seem to be very suspicious persons running around telling people that there was a child abduction ring at work in the area. That's not "covering-up", that's "spilling the beans" - if it were true.

 

[shadowraiths]

If there was some kind of "cover-up" going on, it can't have been a cover-up of child abduction rings - since there seem to be very suspicious persons running around telling people that there was a child abduction ring at work in the area. That's not "covering-up", that's "spilling the beans" - if it were true.

C'mon, Roy. Think about it. You have two convicted sex offenders (albeit, one was convicted 20 some odd years after the fact) telling Noreen Gosch that Johnny was the victim of a national sex ring. And one (Bonacci) implicating the very person (Soda) who allegedly oopsed upon a child sexual predator working for the DMR. And same said individual is alleged to have told Ms. Gosch that Eugene Martin was targeted to be abducted.

Did he really tell her this? And if so, how might he have come about the information? Within two months after Eugene's abduction, the revelation about Sykora is leaked to the press, with a later confirmation that the guy admitted to sexually abusing boys, and per his videotaped statement (that was turned over to LE), admitted to having "fondled 'almost all the boys.'"

Furthermore, you claim there is no way anyone could have known that Johnny or Eugene would be alone the morning they were abducted. I concur. However, if someone was aware of all of the paper route schedules, it would only be a matter of time. I do however agree that Soda contacting Noreen of the "pending adbuction" as opposed to contacting LE, seems more than a little suspect.

So, what, exactly, was going on? How about smoke and mirrors? How about some diversions to get people (specifically, Noreen, who has been very vocal about missing kids) barking up the wrong tree? I'm just sayin....

 

[CrimeSolver]

Judging by the Myspace page, the Sykora guy sounds like a bit of a creep. If I were investigating the paperboy disappearances, I would be taking a very close look at this guy.

 

[shadowraiths]

Judging by the Myspace page, the Sykora guy sounds like a bit of a creep. If I were investigating the paperboy disappearances, I would be taking a very close look at this guy.

 

[Roy Harrold]

"So, what, exactly, was going on? How about smoke and mirrors? How about some diversions to get people (specifically, Noreen, who has been very vocal about missing kids) barking up the wrong tree?"

I totally agree! But, what tree is someone trying to get her to bark up? Apparently, the tree of "there's a child abduction ring at work in this area" - that is what the suspicious people are feeding her, isn't it?

Ladydragon tells us that George Paul Bishop has a history of feding parents of his victims misleading bull* stories - correct? So, logically, what he's feeding Noreen is misleading bull* - yes? And what is he feeding her - "your son was abducted by a child abduction ring".

Doesn't it seem more logical that he's trying to use her to distract attention from solitary predators, perhaps himself? And onto an imaginary abduction ring that will keep police on wild goose-chases for decades?
How do we know that Paul Bishop wasn't the source of the info Sam Soda passed to Noreen? Would that make sense - setting up Noreen & the "organized ring" theory she has already testified about before the senate, with Bishop's help, with an apparent ability to predict the actions of...an organized abduction ring?

Is it possible that Bishop might have been working with someone like Sykora? Absolutely! But a pair of predators working together is miles away from a "national pedophile & child *advertiser censored* ring controlling police, politicians and businesspeople across the USA".