IA IA - Johnny Gosch, 12, West Des Moines, 5 Sept 1982 #4

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Mr. E said:
The only information I have about John Sr. (I think he is John Leonard Gosch; he goes by Leonard and John Jr. went by Johnny) comes from Noreen's Gosch's book, so it's fairly one-sided. You have to make your own judgments about it.

I did read somewhere recently that Leonard's response to Noreen's allegation that Johnny was still alive and had been with pedophiles until his escape was that he would not want to know his son if that were the case, that he would be "ruined." Again, this wasn't a direct quote, just something I read, so I don't know if it's true.

Also, I had a friend who lived in the area at the time, and she said the family was generally regarded as "weird" altogether. Her opinion was that Johnny never made it out of the area alive, and she hinted that the parents were somehow responsible.

Again, this is hearsay and rumor. The best thing to do is read what you can and make your own decisions.

What's your opinion about the photos?
Click to expand...

Thanks for this information! The photos just ad to the mystery because some seem to look more like Johnny than others. But with the way anybody can alter photos today with their computers and software, maybe some of them were intentionally altered to keep an ongoing interest in the case.

I have doubts about his mother's story that Johnny came to visit her. This is because if he was in so much danger, as his mother claims, he would never take that visitation risk in the first place. His abductor would not let him out. I know that Johnny says that he escaped, but the risk (if her accounts are true.) of him choosing to visit would be a concern. What were the circumstances of the visitation with his Mother if true? I read that there was an unidentified man during the visit. So the whole thing is really bizarre and scary.

This is also another one of those 50/50 cases of whether or not people believe Johnnie is alive at this point in time. A person could take either position in this regard and I don't think there is enough evidence to counter one position over the other. I share my views as to the others on the forum that someone out there, or several out there, for whatever reason, do not want the truth to be known.

Satch
 
I've lived in Iowa all my life & I remember when Johnny disappeared. I was recently married & beginning a family of my own so I didn't really follow the case that closely over the years. It's really difficult for me to believe his family played a part in this. The Franklin County stories are even more difficult to believe. I can't comment on Noreen's mental state other than to say if I had been through what she had, I have no idea how I would have handled it. I believe the uncertainty of not knowing what happened to her son for so many years has left her a tortured & tormented soul. I can't criticize her in good conscience.

It's horrible to believe there are people in the world who would use & abuse children in such unthinkable ways. It does happen though. Pedophile rings have been uncovered. People can be treated & traded like commodities.

Whether that's what happened to Johnny, I don't know. There were subsequently 2 more boys who went missing in Iowa in the years following so I won't rule out the possibility. Eugene Martin & Marc Allen were their names and to the best of my knowledge, they were never found either.

I need to go back to the beginning here & read. There's so much I was unaware of that I've already read. I doubt Johnny is still alive. He most likely died many years ago. I just wanted to say thank you to those who have made such efforts over the years to bring Johnny home.
 
Satch said:
Thanks for this information! The photos just ad to the mystery because some seem to look more like Johnny than others. But with the way anybody can alter photos today with their computers and software, maybe some of them were intentionally altered to keep an ongoing interest in the case.

I have doubts about his mother's story that Johnny came to visit her. This is because if he was in so much danger, as his mother claims, he would never take that visitation risk in the first place. His abductor would not let him out. I know that Johnny says that he escaped, but the risk (if her accounts are true.) of him choosing to visit would be a concern. What were the circumstances of the visitation with his Mother if true? I read that there was an unidentified man during the visit. So the whole thing is really bizarre and scary.

This is also another one of those 50/50 cases of whether or not people believe Johnnie is alive at this point in time. A person could take either position in this regard and I don't think there is enough evidence to counter one position over the other. I share my views as to the others on the forum that someone out there, or several out there, for whatever reason, do not want the truth to be known.

Satch
Click to expand...

You're right about altered photos. There was recently a photo of Johnny (presumably) released that showed him standing in front of a semi truck. In that photo, someone had obviously taken the face of Johnny from another photo (the photo of him standing in the dark with his paper delivery gear) and spliced it onto a photo of a different boy altogether.

Another example of photo altering is the original "tied-up" photo that shows him with a brand. I'm not unconvinced that the photo shows Johnny -- it looks like him, and he's wearing the same warm-up pants as when he disappeared -- but the brand was photoshopped on.
 
I've lived in Iowa all my life & I remember when Johnny disappeared. I was recently married & beginning a family of my own so I didn't really follow the case that closely over the years. It's really difficult for me to believe his family played a part in this. The Franklin County stories are even more difficult to believe. I can't comment on Noreen's mental state other than to say if I had been through what she had, I have no idea how I would have handled it. I believe the uncertainty of not knowing what happened to her son for so many years has left her a tortured & tormented soul. I can't criticize her in good conscience.
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Good points here,

I can't imagine the pain and hurt that Noreen must be feeling. It may be so sad, painful, and devastating, that she may be clinging on to any hope, no matter how small it may seem to help bring her son home. And to be honest, since there is no conclusive evidence as to whether or not Johnny is alive, I would say, let her keep hoping. She needs that something to give her inner strength, something of which she can hold on to.

I agree with what Mandy says, I can't criticize someone who has gone through the insurmountable grief of losing a child or having a child gone missing and not knowing where they are, especially for years and years. I don't think there are many parents who would be able to recover from that traumatic experience.

Satch
 
OMG,

I just went back and I am listening to Noreen's 12 part interview on You Tube. I am crying my eyes out. Regardless of all of the events and turmoil of what this poor woman has been through, she is a hero and should be an icon for her work with getting legislation passed to help missing children and their families. The interview is very long and many of you have probably heard it before, but it is shattering and heartbreaking to hear what she has gone through.

Actually, to make the interview easier for everyone to see, I am removing the direct link. Just go to You Tube and if you search for "Noreen Gosch" the 12 part interview should be there. Thank you.

Satch
 
After listening to Noreen's interview in full, I find most of what she is saying to be credible, at least to the best of her recollection of things. So much pain, torment, and sadness, can be found in her voice that it is just incomprehensible to understand the hurt that she has been through and her being able to talk about this. She did a very good job of recalling the events of the case, and as stated above, her work to help other missing and abused children find courage and hope is a wonderful thing and I wish her the very best under these most painful and trying circumstances.

Now I do believe that Johnny did come to visit her on that March 1997 day, or at least someone whom she believed was Johnny. I would take her account more than that of her ex-husband, who really seems to be involved in this.

So the questions that I have are the following:

1.) Assuming the ex-husband was involved, why would he want to be? What was the motive for him wanting to do this? It is heartbreaking to see that he would put Noreen through that kind of pain, but why put his own son in the center of danger if the conflict in his view could have been a marital problem between Noreen and he? Again, we don't know what the Gosch's marriage was like.

2.) Assuming Noreen's statements about the cold, apathetic attitudes of law enforcement are true about her son's case, (and I believe they are.) Give great credit and praise to Noreen for making a difference and helping other parents of missing children throughout the country. I just don't see her as a "whack job" at all. I see a very caring, loving person overcome with incredible, grief, pain, and sadness.

3.) Going back to the photos on Noreen's website, I want to ask the community, which do you believe are real? Not real? And which photos are you unsure about? Noreen said that all of the photo's of Johnny are verified to be him, so what verification process did they use? Or is this the one area where her pain and grief may have clouded her judgments in looking at the photos? On the other hand, maternal instincts can be very strong, and I think in most cases a mother would have that "sixth sense" to recognize her child or children in an unpleasant or dangerous situation.

This is just my opinion of course.

Satch
 
If anyone could point me in the direction or supply links ... I'd like to understand why people believe his father could have been involved.

While there are many possibilities I find it hard to believe, there is one fact I find especially disturbing. I've been looking at the Iowa Cold Case website

http://www.iowacoldcases.org/cases_missing_persons.html

3 boys, same age range, went missing in Des Moines in the 80's. As far as I can tell, there has been nothing similar before or after this time period.

Johnny Gosch, 12 ... missing 9/5/1982
Eugene Martin, 13 ... missing 8/12/1984
Marc Allen, 13 ... missing 3/29/1986
 
Mandy113 said:
If anyone could point me in the direction or supply links ... I'd like to understand why people believe his father could have been involved.

While there are many possibilities I find it hard to believe, there is one fact I find especially disturbing. I've been looking at the Iowa Cold Case website

http://www.iowacoldcases.org/cases_missing_persons.html

3 boys, same age range, went missing in Des Moines in the 80's. As far as I can tell, there has been nothing similar before or after this time period.

Johnny Gosch, 12 ... missing 9/5/1982
Eugene Martin, 13 ... missing 8/12/1984
Marc Allen, 13 ... missing 3/29/1986
Click to expand...

Yes, I too believe there is some relationship between these three missing children, I just don't know what the relationship is. I don't think that they were necessarily kidnapped by the same person or persons. But, I think that whoever knows whatever he/she knows about one child, could know about the other, or all three children. And if it is the same person, he/she could have been involved with this same type of sex/prostitution kidnapping ring, whom Ms. Gosch believes took her son, Johnny. Maybe each kidnapper in the case, could have belonged to this pedophile group,

You look for little similarities here, like the ages are near identical, and there is a general two-year gap between each abduction.

Satch
 
I started in Thread #1, made it to Post #108 (or close to that), and developed a massive headache. I want to learn more about this case . . . so I'll be reading from this point and working my way back. I quickly perused what was written recently, and there seems to be less arguing, finger pointing, and (I would hope) bad links.
 
Mandy113 said:
If anyone could point me in the direction or supply links ... I'd like to understand why people believe his father could have been involved.

While there are many possibilities I find it hard to believe, there is one fact I find especially disturbing. I've been looking at the Iowa Cold Case website

http://www.iowacoldcases.org/cases_missing_persons.html

3 boys, same age range, went missing in Des Moines in the 80's. As far as I can tell, there has been nothing similar before or after this time period.

Johnny Gosch, 12 ... missing 9/5/1982
Eugene Martin, 13 ... missing 8/12/1984
Marc Allen, 13 ... missing 3/29/1986
Click to expand...

Was it true that Noreen alerted the local authorities before at least one of the boys disappeared? While it would have been impossible to protect every child in the age range, you would think LE would have been on high alert or at least attempting to watch out for suspicious activity.

I have thought the whole time I have been aware of Johnny and Noreen, that she was at least disrespected by LE, more likely out and out treated like a nut case. The whole case is a travesty, if what she has found is true, yet nothing has been done.
 
LCoastMom said:
Was it true that Noreen alerted the local authorities before at least one of the boys disappeared? While it would have been impossible to protect every child in the age range, you would think LE would have been on high alert or at least attempting to watch out for suspicious activity.

I have thought the whole time I have been aware of Johnny and Noreen, that she was at least disrespected by LE, more likely out and out treated like a nut case. The whole case is a travesty, if what she has found is true, yet nothing has been done.
Click to expand...

Before Eugene Martin disappeared, Noreen was contacted by Sam Soda and told that there would be another kidnapping in a couple of weeks, and that it would be a paperboy. Noreen went to the police, but they refused to listen to her.

This is all according to her book. I don't think her accusation has been verified in any way, not that I'm aware of.
 
I've been lurking on this site for a while now witout posting, and I admit that Johnny's case is one of the most tormenting ones for me, as for many of you. I've read through many of the threads, and I noticed that the question was posed here and there that if-IF-Johnny is alive presently, and was indeed inducted into a pedophile network, why would he choose to stay missing, particularly because
1) His mother's pain is immense and never ending
and 2) he could be harming other children by not exposing the truth about these "rings."

Having worked as a teacher of sexually, emotionally and physically abused children for years, in a private school setting, kids that have been through more hells than you or I could imagine, my theory on his silence, should he be alive, is based on the victim/perp legacy. Children who are viciously abused over extended periods of time internalize that abuse, and often become victimizers themselves. It's cut and dry. This is no to say that ALL child rape and molestation victims become abusers. Of course not. But some do. It's a terrible, unavoidable truth. Many of these adult perps who go after kids- I'll venture to say "most," actually- were violated as children. The abuse becomes love becomes prurient interest in kids down the road... it's one of the most horrible truths that I have seen first hand in my work as a teacher with these child victims.

I don't feel in my gut that johnny is alive, but there is a small hope inside of me that he is, and that he is free and living unencumbered by his demons somewhere. But this is just my own childlike innocence speaking. If the stories about the upper echelon pedophile ring are true, and Johnny was kept alive, he may have a very sad and very solid reason for not coming forward.

I hope this is not true. I just wanted to throw my two cents in about why he may never resurface if he is indeed alive. Only tremendous fear and splintering could keep him in the shadows, IMHO. I don't believe that it would simply be a case of him wanting to "avoid the inevitable media circus that would occur should he resurface," as one post read.

This case simply breaks my heart into bits. They all do. But this one also makes me angry. The fact that these perps don't drop an anonymous tip, even years later, to end the pain of a mother, a father, is the single biggest indicator to me that true evil not only exists in our world, but is thriving. It horrifies me to my core.
 
hi, i'm new to websleuths, but i have been following several threads on the site for a long time. hope i can help add to the mysterious johnny gosch case
 
what i have to offer so far is this (if any of it has already been mentioned): a few things... i find it strange that the initial composite sketch of who investigators thought to be Michaela Garecht's abductor, might also be "Tony", according to Noreen Gosch. NG basically felt she couldn't trust Mr. Gosch because she claimed that not long before JG disappeared, Mr. Gosch took JG to Offuit Air Force base in Omaha, NE. 1. Offuit is brought up as a key location in Paul Bonacci's account of his years in this supposed pedophile ring, 2. oddly enough, investigators said "Tony" was in Omaha when JG was abducted (as well as Paul Bonacci) and 3. I find it interesting that John Joubert, who I hadn't heard of until recently, was stationed at Offuit while enlisted in the Air Force, and also drove around Omaha in the early 80s picking up young paperboys - coincidentally. Garecht was abducted in 1988, though far from Iowa, it is 6 years later. Additionally, Garecht was abducted in Hayward, CA, which doesn't happen to be too far from Bohemian Group, a camp ground located in Sonoma County, which is where Paul Bonacci claimed he had been taken, subjected to ritual sexual abuse, and where kiddie snuff films were created. He also says he saw JG here after he was first abducted. Apparently, there is a private airport, possibly even a base, where he claimed kids could be transported to, some even from Offuit - as he explained this is how JG got out to Bohemian Grove. Obviously some of this is extremely far-fetched, but it all seems to relate even in the most minute way. Something to possibly worth looking into I think...
 
Exactly. How can it all be connected/make sense? Guess there's just a few good coincidences...
 
It has been awhile since I posted to this thread, I believe it was back in No. 2 edition of Johnny Gosch thread.

I have been a supporter of Noreens theory all along and have checked back on her site for updates off and on over the years. Having lived close to where this happened and visiting their often as a child the case just stuck in my mind. After I started researching it in 2004 I found all these new developments that just seemed crazy. If Noreen is to be believed that her son actually visited her as an adult then I think the rest of it bears consideration at the very least.

I wonder why all these people who are coming forward about the Franklin Credit Union scandal and the pedophile rings and missing paperboys in Des Moines Iowa aren't being taken serious by mainstream media? Is it too much for us to swallow?

Noreen Gosch gets lumped in with the 9/11 Conspiracy Theorists at this point, in the eyes of the mainstream anyway.

As I get older and find myself laughing off 9/11 and JFK conspiracies I wonder to myself why I still believe this woman. I think because she has always just wanted to find her son, I don't see or believe that she has profited in any way from this event, in fact it seems to have ruined her family. I think I would know my adult son if he was 12 when he disappeared. I remember him showing her a birthmark for proof or something when he allegedly visited her.

9/11 - terrorists
JFK - Lee Harvey Oswald
Johnny Gosch - ? Well the jury in my mind is still out on this one. A part of me believes they will find his remains locally some day. But I still at least partially believe Noreen Gosch. Even if it turns out Johnny was killed the day he was taken, she hasn't harmed anyone with her crusade, and in fact has helped bring awareness to the very serious problem of child abduction.

Sorry I rambled, first post in quite some time.
 
I don't fault Noreen for anything she's said or done in her efforts to find her son. I don't believe she's ever operated under any agenda other than to find Johnny and bring him home. Her willingness to come forward and tell Johnny's story, over & over again, has undoubtedly done some good to raise awareness and cause us all to watch our children a bit more carefully.

Having said that, I also believe Noreen may have been taken advantage of by some people. I don't know what their motive would be. But I do think she may have received at least some information which was false. I certainly don't blame her for believing them or pursuing every potential lead. What else could a mother do?

Air Force bases, Bohemian Grove ... it's a real stretch for me to see all those connections. However, pedophile rings ? I can't discount the similarity of Eugene Martin's disappearance. And possibly Marc Allen's as well. We know pedophiles exist. The idea there could be an organized ring? Definitely a distasteful topic for the mainstream press to cover.

Lately I've been following the Jacob Wetterling thread. There was mention there of over the road truckers kidnapping children around that same time period ... late 80's, early 90's. Has anyone else ever heard this about truckers? I don't recall seeing it elsewhere.
 
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