Found Deceased IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 #27

[sbsuzilight]

So, either she was to meet someone or someone was to come to the house to pick her up. . . . Why wasn't the alarm raised by that person?

Excellent point! I also heard or read that she a ride lined up, but sorry I cannot remember where.

 

[Deleted member 227095]

I think that picture is a little more important than they are letting on. Simply because the boyfriend and family are playing it down. Brother said he doesn't care what it said because it is private between the two and boyfriend had a dismissing answer for it too. MOO Possibly LE wants them to not speak about it's significance.

I agree. Snap could have been sent from location where she might have initially felt 'safe' but actually was not. So, the location of the picture could be key to figuring out where MT was later in the evening. I always thought it was interesting that LE took pictures of the interior of WC house/trailer. I wonder if they have searched any other local houses and taken similar pictures or if they know the location of the Snap at this point?

 

[penny99]

Maybe I am just believing what I want to but I truly believe that LE is narrowing in on something. Everything that they have done thus far leads me to believe so. I think the lack of information they have provided, though incredibly frustrating, is for the purpose of keeping Mollie alive. They don't want the perp to panic and do something rash.
I have had a gut feeling from the beginning of this that she is alive and I just pray that this is correct and they find her. What she/her family are going through is unthinkable.
JMO.

 

[Alethea]

I don't read too much into any coincidences. What happened that day is only important because that day became the day that a tragic incident happened. If she was at her mom's house we'd be saying "but she stayed with her mom all the time!" instead of "but it was only her second night alone!"

It is crazy to me how seemingly meaningless random events can change the course of a person's, family's, town's whole world. If Mollie skipped her run, would we be here talking about this case? It's so senseless, it makes your heart hurt thinking about it. At least it does for me.

 

[MassGuy]

Here’s my thinking at this point. Statistically speaking, the perpetrator should be someone known to Mollie, perhaps even close to her. The seemingly coincidental nature of her abduction, specifically that it was a situation that was unique to her experience (dog sitting with everyone being away), only furthers the likelihood of this being the case.

However, if this person was privy to her situation (home alone), I would expect there to have been some digital record of an interaction, and thus, some sort of clear direction by now. Law enforcement still isn’t using the words “this is foul play.”

So here we are, one month later, and we don’t know a great deal more than we did initially. Mollie is still missing, and we have no idea what has happened.

Because of these things, I am leaning more towards a stranger abduction. This doesn’t discount the possibility that this person wasn’t a complete stranger, and hadn’t found out some way that Mollie was home alone. But I think this explains to me why the case hasn’t moved much (atleast publicly), and that’s because this person is outside her immediate circle.

 

[NineMilly]

Some body knew where she would be and when and on what night, they knew her patterns /habit. It would also appear the the perp knew she was also alone and wouldn't be missed for a night.

Bingo! The first thing to remember about coincidence, is there is no such thing.

 

[clearskies1]

I'd be willing to bet that if a perp brandished a weapon, 99.9% of people would freeze/comply, regardless of what they say they would do.

I was present during a store hold-up (guns involved) and made a dash for the door. I guess I thought I had a better chance of surviving as a moving target, rather than complying with the perps orders to go to a back room. Dumb probably but that was my reaction.

 

[ventuc]

When I watched Dad/BF interview, it sounded as if this was her first time ever staying at the house to dog sit. She had taken care of the dogs in the past, but never stayed overnight. Something about this arrangement seems too coincidental. The odds of this happening on the very first overnight must be astronomical? Granted, she might not have made it home which may make this a somewhat moot point.

Possibly not a moot point, since someone taking her off the road while jogging might have known she was alone that night, and that would buy him more time to cover up/get out of the area. IMO, a perp who knows her or has been stalking her, and plans to abduct her, has a better chance of getting away with it out on a desolate road, instead of in a home with plenty of ways to leave evidence of a struggle.

 

[Confusion]

I'd be willing to bet that if a perp brandished a weapon, 99.9% of people would freeze/comply, regardless of what they say they would do.

I agree that you never really know until it happens. When I was 13, I woke up about 6 am to find a drunken stranger sitting on the edge of my bed. Being the extremely shy, anxious kid I was at the time, I would have been sure that I would have panicked at the very least. Instead, I sat up and talked to him for close to an hour before he finally looked away for a minute and I ran out the door to get my mother up.

Long story short... we lived in a lower duplex and my bed was in front of the door that led to the inside door to the upstairs. He had just gotten out of prison (for assaulting his mother), and was there to kill his ex-wife who lived upstairs. My mother was a basket case, and kept telling me I should have screamed. About 7 that night, I had a brilliant thought and said to her "Maybe it's a good idea that I didn't scream. He had to have a knife if he cut the screen to get in." We found out later that he had also broken into the sporting goods store around the corner and stolen a gun and ammo.

I really do believe that if someone were to pull a gun on me today and tell me to get into his car, I'd probably just tell him that he might as well shoot me because I'm not going with him. Of course, I also believe that I'll never know if that's true or not; I'm forever the optimist!

 

[No_Digital_footprint]

I was present during a store hold-up (guns involved) and made a dash for the door. I guess I thought I had a better chance of surviving as a moving target, rather than complying with the perps orders to go to a back room. Dumb probably but that was my reaction.

Always fight back...

 

[MassGuy]

I'd be willing to bet that if a perp brandished a weapon, 99.9% of people would freeze/comply, regardless of what they say they would do.

Which is something people should never do in a kidnapping situation where there is an opportunity to run away. Get in the car, and you are in big trouble.

 

[Alethea]

I was present during a store hold-up (guns involved) and made a dash for the door. I guess I thought I had a better chance of surviving as a moving target, rather than complying with the perps orders to go to a back room. Dumb probably but that was my reaction.

I think that's a natural reaction too. I think there are many completely reasonable natural reactions that will be guided by your personal past experience, your knowledge, and your physical (and mental) reaction speeds.

The whole "she would have fought" thing to me just reminds me a little of the rhetoric around cancer. I don't like the battle euphemisms there either. When you say someone "lost the battle with cancer" makes it seem like if the person just tried harder, they could have won. Or "won their battle" makes it seem like the thousands of people who die from these awful diseases just didn't try hard enough to fight and live. I think at base we're never comfortable when we're not in control of a situation and no one wants to admit we're powerless over a disease (or an attack).

I'm being really depressing tonight, I need Otto to come tell me to get back on track.

 

[Deleted member 227095]

I would wonder about local hunters/trappers who might know those back roads, as well as be familiar with the layout of the properties they hunt/trap. Does anyone have hunting rights around the pig farm or neighboring properties? Also delivery/service/propane/etc. people who might be familiar with the back roads? And most likely someone with a pickup vs a car, because of the dirt roads.

In an earlier thread we checked hunting season timing and nothing is currently in season for legal hunting. Local farms do lease out hunting rights but nothing about hunting connection has surfaced in MSM for this case. However, local reports from as far away as Iowa City have reported that local delivery from UPS/FedEx are being outsourced to unmarked vans/delivery trucks and drivers don't wear typical uniforms. One woman in Iowa City said she wouldn't open her door for a package as the person had no uniform and was in an unmarked rental truck. The article I saw from DM Register explained that rural routes are more typically outsourced and so its not unusual to have an unmarked van or truck show up in your driveway to deliver a package. I would think that on any given day that there would be at least a few of these trucks in the County delivering packages. Also if locals are used to these unmarked vans and trucks delivering their packages they probably wouldn't think twice about opening the door to one of these people. Some in an earlier thread posted about the avg. income in Brooklyn and based on that I am not sure if they are active users of home delivery for food and supplies but I might be wrong.

 

[No_Digital_footprint]

I agree that you never really know until it happens. When I was 13, I woke up about 6 am to find a drunken stranger sitting on the edge of my bed. Being the extremely shy, anxious kid I was at the time, I would have been sure that I would have panicked at the very least. Instead, I sat up and talked to him for close to an hour before he finally looked away for a minute and I ran out the door to get my mother up.

Long story short... we lived in a lower duplex and my bed was in front of the door that led to the inside door to the upstairs. He had just gotten out of prison (for assaulting his mother), and was there to kill his ex-wife who lived upstairs. My mother was a basket case, and kept telling me I should have screamed. About 7 that night, I had a brilliant thought and said to her "Maybe it's a good idea that I didn't scream. He had to have a knife if he cut the screen to get in." We found out later that he had also broken into the sporting goods store around the corner and stolen a gun and ammo.

I really do believe that if someone were to pull a gun on me today and tell me to get into his car, I'd probably just tell him that he might as well shoot me because I'm not going with him. Of course, I also believe that I'll never know if that's true or not; I'm forever the optimist!

When someone pulls a gun everything changes...

I followed a man driving the wrong way through ft. Myers FL streets after I watched him punch her at least 5 times while driving... He pulled into a check cashing place parking lot and I pulled behind him while calling 911... He yelled at me and said all kinds of hateful things... I drew...he kept saying yes sir, sorry sir... Then he pushed her out of the car as he sped away ... She yelled at me for making it worse with her BF... When the cops finally arrived I was helping her clean the blood from her face and she refused to press charges... I just left ... I look for that guy when I'm in that area...

 

[Poppyflower]

Has anyone watched Cold Justice: Sex Crimes? It is interesting from a sleuthing perspective and I kept on thinking about if this happened to Mollie. It was very revealing about the mindset of perps. I recommend it.

 

[Jaclin]

I'm torn between younger guy and middle-aged guy.

I'm leaning a towards younger guy because I think Mollie would be more likely to talk to a younger guy. Doesn't mean that a dirty old man didn't corner her, which I think is more likely than middle aged, but what do I know. When I pushed carts at a grocery store, we had a guy that came by and swept the parking lot with a machine. At first, he was friendly and I didn't mind him, but things gradually got weird. He started getting personal asking if I had a boyfriend. I was 22, and he was like 70 or so. He told me he sometimes found jewelry in the parking lots and if he found anything good he would bring it to me. Every time he was there the guy would come talk to me while I was pushing carts. I parked on the side of the building because they generally didn't like employees to park in the front where the good spaces are. One night I thought he was already gone because I didn't see him sweeping, and his sweeper truck was parked between the building and my car. He was clearly waiting on me. Even seem to remember him asking me if I wanted to go for a ride. I told him I was in a hurry. I didn't report him for harassment, since I hadn't really told him to leave me alone. You know how nice girls are. We just want people to take the hint. I think I told a couple people that he was creeping me out. I gave notice at work that I would no longer be available to work the nights I knew he was going to be there. Didn't see him after that, thankfully.

 

[Deleted member 227095]

Long time lurker...first post. I’ve gone through most of threads as best I could looking for this answer. On MT FB page the day after she went missing two neighbors said they saw her jogging past their homes around 5-5:30ish. Why are most of the other sightings later that evening around 7-9pm time range? How accurate is the timeline?

We don't really have a timeline, just a guesstimate based on very weak witness statements.

 

[bernie78]

"My son, Scott, he gave me a call about 5:15 p.m. saying, 'Mom, did you know Mollie didn't go to work?' At which point I said, 'I will be right home," Calderwood said.



After 26 threads of mostly productive discussion my sense is we have a few viable theories but I think its safe to say we honestly have many more questions than answers at this point nearly 1 month after the disappearance. However due to absence of substantive new information from LE to confirm any theories its impossible at this point to assess the likihood of any of these theories IMO. In the last 3 threads it seems like we are increasingly spinning our wheels around the same information we have now had for weeks. We have all been working so hard to put together a timeline of events around the disappearance of MT but we still can't figure out what her jogging route was and whether she ever made it back to BF house. Eyewitness reports have been less than useful in our efforts to put it mildly.

I decided to go back to the beginning to figure out the early hours and days of the local LE effort to find MT and in many respects its more than a bit confusing to say nothing of being quite upsetting. It is quite disheartening to learn of the lag time in this case being reported to local LE and the slow response from local LE being what it was and the fact that DCI seemed to be brought in not be local LE but friend of the family. I am not saying any of this with a sense of blame but rather just putting the timeline out there to make it clear that if MT was taken from Brooklyn via car or truck when LE now says that she disappeared that the perp would have had at least a 12 hr jump on LE. I am still baffled about the extent of FBI involvement in this case but I am not at all certain that even the FBI resources can overcome the sizable time and information gaps that sadly seem to be present in this case from its inception.

In trying to understand why we haven't advanced much from where we started I went back to when and how the family figured out MT was missing and what the early local LE response was to locate MT. I keep reading and re-reading about how the family and eventually LE figured out MT was missing and have to admit I'm a bit baffled. Early hours in any case are crucial and the more I tried to figure out what had happened in the early hours of this case the more confused I became. What is so disheartening about the first few days of the case is that it is during this period when the digital devices might still have been active and of great use to investigators and CCTV/Video would have been most available and accessible. As time went on in the early search it became clear that friends of MT were very concerned and that searches were initiated before local LE even seemed to have a plan to search. Locals wanted to help and turned up to do so in large numbers which was so encouraging. There was also a report of members of the family trying to access fitbit data to find MT and were told by local LE to stop. Local LE did initiate some searches using local citizens but these were called off and people were sent home. Why?

We talked endlessly about this early period of the disappearance in earlier threads but I still don't understand how a non-family member appeared to be the typical work 'emergency contact' to get the call that MT didn't show up for work at 8 am and that this message somehow filtered through the various people in the family to eventually get to Mom at 5:15 pm? Given the small staff of the camp and the fact that they were going on an outing where staff/camper ratios were important, I would have thought that they would have kept calling and calling to figure out where MT was that day especially as she didn't call in sick? Knowing what we know now MT might have already been missing for 12 hrs before the 8 am work start time was missed. Even with the manpower and resources of the FBI how is it possible to overcome a sizable information gap during such a crucial stage of the case?

I don't understand why MT Mom wasn't the designated emergency contact to get the call and why the employer didn't contact her directly much earlier in the day? At any camp I worked at while MT's age attendance of staff and campers was a very big deal and phone calls would be made immediately to figure out why people were not present and accounted for as security of camers and staff was important. The idea that almost an entire working day goes by before a person such as the Mom with the legal authority and ability to file a missing persons report on behalf of her daughter is something that doesn't make sense to me at all. By all accounts the camp called the BF to ask about MT. Did BF call Mom if he for some reason was contacted by camp? The BF had the disadvantage of being out of area due to work so maybe work left him a voicemail and he wasn't able to access it until mid-day or later? Other brother was supposedly at the movies with a cousin later in the afternoon when they received multiple texts/contacts via SM that MT wasn't at work. Did they call Mom at any point? Why did she just find out at 5:15-5:30 pm? Where did the family think that MT could possibly be if she wasn't at work? In everything I've read I didn't get the sense of much urgency on the issue of MT location until over 8 hrs after she was reported to not have shown up at work. Why? Local LE by all accounts didn't start thinking about what to do until the following day after local citizens had already begun to search. Why?

I am posting this because I believe that even with the vast resources of the FBI that very sadly too much time was lost at the front end of the investigation to ever find out what happened or to gather the necessary evidence and eyewitness accounts needed to locate MT or make a conviction. The nearly 2" of rain in the area also probably ruined the possibility of obtaining much forensic evidence outside if this was where she went missing. Early on I was very optimistic that the digital footprint would be large enough to locate MT. It seems this was not at all the case. I am also not completely convinced that people in Brooklyn will remember much 3 weeks after the fact and will come forward with solid recollections for the FBI to work with (Question the red dots on the map process and asking people to remember what they saw 3 weeks after the fact?). I have great respect for the LE professionals that have been working this case and I hope that they are able to find MT with the information that is available. But when I look at the timing of their involvement and what information seemed to be available to the DCI and FBI when they entered the case on their back feet I am sadly not at all optimistic we will see a break in this case anytime soon. I wish I shared the optimism of MT Dad and I do hope he has some information that we don't have because based on what we have I cannot share his optimism and this makes me extremely sad.

"My son, Scott, he gave me a call about 5:15 p.m. saying, 'Mom, did you know Mollie didn't go to work?' At which point I said, 'I will be right home," Calderwood said.



After 26 threads of mostly productive discussion my sense is we have a few viable theories but I think its safe to say we honestly have many more questions than answers at this point nearly 1 month after the disappearance. However due to absence of substantive new information from LE to confirm any theories its impossible at this point to assess the likihood of any of these theories IMO. In the last 3 threads it seems like we are increasingly spinning our wheels around the same information we have now had for weeks. We have all been working so hard to put together a timeline of events around the disappearance of MT but we still can't figure out what her jogging route was and whether she ever made it back to BF house. Eyewitness reports have been less than useful in our efforts to put it mildly.

I decided to go back to the beginning to figure out the early hours and days of the local LE effort to find MT and in many respects its more than a bit confusing to say nothing of being quite upsetting. It is quite disheartening to learn of the lag time in this case being reported to local LE and the slow response from local LE being what it was and the fact that DCI seemed to be brought in not be local LE but friend of the family. I am not saying any of this with a sense of blame but rather just putting the timeline out there to make it clear that if MT was taken from Brooklyn via car or truck when LE now says that she disappeared that the perp would have had at least a 12 hr jump on LE. I am still baffled about the extent of FBI involvement in this case but I am not at all certain that even the FBI resources can overcome the sizable time and information gaps that sadly seem to be present in this case from its inception.

In trying to understand why we haven't advanced much from where we started I went back to when and how the family figured out MT was missing and what the early local LE response was to locate MT. I keep reading and re-reading about how the family and eventually LE figured out MT was missing and have to admit I'm a bit baffled. Early hours in any case are crucial and the more I tried to figure out what had happened in the early hours of this case the more confused I became. What is so disheartening about the first few days of the case is that it is during this period when the digital devices might still have been active and of great use to investigators and CCTV/Video would have been most available and accessible. As time went on in the early search it became clear that friends of MT were very concerned and that searches were initiated before local LE even seemed to have a plan to search. Locals wanted to help and turned up to do so in large numbers which was so encouraging. There was also a report of members of the family trying to access fitbit data to find MT and were told by local LE to stop. Local LE did initiate some searches using local citizens but these were called off and people were sent home. Why?

We talked endlessly about this early period of the disappearance in earlier threads but I still don't understand how a non-family member appeared to be the typical work 'emergency contact' to get the call that MT didn't show up for work at 8 am and that this message somehow filtered through the various people in the family to eventually get to Mom at 5:15 pm? Given the small staff of the camp and the fact that they were going on an outing where staff/camper ratios were important, I would have thought that they would have kept calling and calling to figure out where MT was that day especially as she didn't call in sick? Knowing what we know now MT might have already been missing for 12 hrs before the 8 am work start time was missed. Even with the manpower and resources of the FBI how is it possible to overcome a sizable information gap during such a crucial stage of the case?

I don't understand why MT Mom wasn't the designated emergency contact to get the call and why the employer didn't contact her directly much earlier in the day? At any camp I worked at while MT's age attendance of staff and campers was a very big deal and phone calls would be made immediately to figure out why people were not present and accounted for as security of camers and staff was important. The idea that almost an entire working day goes by before a person such as the Mom with the legal authority and ability to file a missing persons report on behalf of her daughter is something that doesn't make sense to me at all. By all accounts the camp called the BF to ask about MT. Did BF call Mom if he for some reason was contacted by camp? The BF had the disadvantage of being out of area due to work so maybe work left him a voicemail and he wasn't able to access it until mid-day or later? Other brother was supposedly at the movies with a cousin later in the afternoon when they received multiple texts/contacts via SM that MT wasn't at work. Did they call Mom at any point? Why did she just find out at 5:15-5:30 pm? Where did the family think that MT could possibly be if she wasn't at work? In everything I've read I didn't get the sense of much urgency on the issue of MT location until over 8 hrs after she was reported to not have shown up at work. Why? Local LE by all accounts didn't start thinking about what to do until the following day after local citizens had already begun to search. Why?

I am posting this because I believe that even with the vast resources of the FBI that very sadly too much time was lost at the front end of the investigation to ever find out what happened or to gather the necessary evidence and eyewitness accounts needed to locate MT or make a conviction. The nearly 2" of rain in the area also probably ruined the possibility of obtaining much forensic evidence outside if this was where she went missing. Early on I was very optimistic that the digital footprint would be large enough to locate MT. It seems this was not at all the case. I am also not completely convinced that people in Brooklyn will remember much 3 weeks after the fact and will come forward with solid recollections for the FBI to work with (Question the red dots on the map process and asking people to remember what they saw 3 weeks after the fact?). I have great respect for the LE professionals that have been working this case and I hope that they are able to find MT with the information that is available. But when I look at the timing of their involvement and what information seemed to be available to the DCI and FBI when they entered the case on their back feet I am sadly not at all optimistic we will see a break in this case anytime soon. I wish I shared the optimism of MT Dad and I do hope he has some information that we don't have because based on what we have I cannot share his optimism and this makes me extremely sad.

Extremely well stated. I have worked for many youth summer camps as an administrator. Common procedure if an employee is a no show would be to call emergency contact. The way I read the quotes seemed that BF was called bc someone she works with happens to have his number but not necessarily because he’s the emergency contact. I don’t mean to pass judgement by saying this but in a small town where everyone knows everyone I could see this happening rather than follow proper procedure. I am questioning the 8 hour lag time myself.

 

[Deleted member 227095]

Investigators focus on 5 areas in search for Mollie Tibbetts

Interesting that LE will not say what the last two dots mean, according to the reporter.

More mental gymnastics IMO as the red dots will no doubt mean something to the person/people they are meant to mean something to. Its on a need to know basis!

 

[roadrunnermt]

With MT's schooling in psychology, I wonder if she has had to do any training or shadowing in the field that might have exposed her to risky people or situations. I have 2 in college and they have had to do a lot of shadowing even before applying to their program of choice.

I think they believe the perp is local or familiar with the area based on the 2 dots on the map that appear with nothing existing there. The perp had to know those areas if he indeed took Mollie there, which I believe he did because I feel those 2 particular red dots are spots where her phone pinged.