Found Deceased IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #45

[Al Hoffman]

After rereading it, I'm wondering if it's not more that they're trying to figure out which bacteria attack the body at which point in decomposition. That way, they can extract bacteria and compare it to their records/catalog/whatever and be able to get a better idea what stage the decomposition is at. Say (bacteria) A is usually found within the first 36 hours; B is usually found after 24 hours but up to 72 hours; C is found from 48 to 72 hours; D is from 4 to 8 days; E is from 6 to 9 days, etc. If they find only A on a body, it has only been 24 hours or less; if there are both A & B, it's been 24-36 hours; D & E, it's been 6-8 days. I'm sure there are many more there that could give a much tighter time line if they get them all figured out and cataloged. MOO

By Jove, I think she got It!

 

[otto]

I think???the dna 48 hours on the bacteria has something to do with the time that bacteria is observed after it is gathered?? not 48 hours from time of death??? confused.

or maybe it is from time of death? I am trying to understand but maybe not doing to great of a job at it.

looking back at the last post before we changed to a new. I think I maybe can understand it more if I look at it like growing a culture?

Sorry. I thought the 48 hours was related to the lifespan of the foreign DNA. Maybe I misunderstood, but my impression is that there is a half-life on foreign DNA in a dead body.

Dead bodies deteriorate irregularly, where some cells die faster than others? I don't think I want to know how long that lasts, but best guess is a day or so.

So, we have DNA that lasts 48 hours with a half-life decay rate in a body with a rapid decay rate. After 33 days, it must be factor of DNA half-life decay and human body decay.

I can't imagine that foreign DNA would last more than a couple of days in a dead body. My guess is no DNA connection between Mollie's body and the suspect, but there is evidence of Mollie's DNA in the suspect's car, connecting him to the "accidental" abduction/murder.

 

[otto]

I think so

Or maybe some like the 54 year old who threw herself at him?

I read that, but it seemed so bizarre I thought it was ridiculous gossip. Why would a 50 year old woman more or less sexually bother a 20 year old man? Was she mentally ill?

 

[Confusion]

Sorry. I thought the 48 hours was related to the lifespan of the foreign DNA. Maybe I misunderstood, but my impression is that there is a half-life on foreign DNA in a dead body.

Dead bodies deteriorate irregularly, where some cells die faster than others? I don't think I want to know how long that lasts, but best guess is a day or so.

So, we have DNA that lasts 48 hours with a half-life decay rate in a body with a rapid decay rate. After 33 days, it must be factor of DNA half-life decay and human body decay.

I can't imagine that foreign DNA would last more than a couple of days in a dead body. My guess is no DNA connection between Mollie's body and the suspect, but there is evidence of Mollie's DNA in the suspect's car, connecting him to the "accidental" abduction/murder.

There could be some of his incriminating DNA on her clothes, depending on exactly what happened that night/day. MOO

 

[Confusion]

I read that, but it seemed so bizarre I thought it was ridiculous gossip. Why would a 50 year old woman more or less sexually bother a 20 year old man? Was she mentally ill?

A lot of aging women have a hard time accepting the fact that they're getting too old for 20 year olds, just like a lot of aging men do. MOO

 

[kpm]

Yeah, somehow she didn't look quite like his type. That sure didn't stop her from trying! She didn't seem to be bothered by what he had done at all.

Well, lol no she seemed more bothered that he blew her off

But my reasoning is that maybe he was been with, shall we say unsavory types who were doped up or possible some others in the same position he was in.

He didn’t just go from being a BF and father to abduction and homicide

 

[Jaclin]

I read that, but it seemed so bizarre I thought it was ridiculous gossip. Why would a 50 year old woman more or less sexually bother a 20 year old man? Was she mentally ill?

it happens, no doubt. they're called cougars. the opposite probably happens a lot more, though.

 

[kpm]

I read that, but it seemed so bizarre I thought it was ridiculous gossip. Why would a 50 year old woman more or less sexually bother a 20 year old man? Was she mentally ill?

She gave a very detailed interview, lol

My point is maybe he practiced on unsavory types...


The trailer on Iowa farm where Mollie Tibbetts's 'killer' lived | Daily Mail Online

 

[Jerrod]

I read that, but it seemed so bizarre I thought it was ridiculous gossip. Why would a 50 year old woman more or less sexually bother a 20 year old man? Was she mentally ill?

it happens, no doubt. they're called cougars. the opposite probably happens a lot more, though.

La Cougar Racha!

 

[soap mama]

Or maybe some like the 54 year old who threw herself at him?

That woman in that interview was just too much!!

 

[MsBetsy]

I read that, but it seemed so bizarre I thought it was ridiculous gossip. Why would a 50 year old woman more or less sexually bother a 20 year old man? Was she mentally ill?

It happens. Not a pleasant thought, but it does happen.

 

[otto]

I had asked the question of sperm and I believe that was 5 weeks.

Sperm lasts 5 weeks in a dead body? Is the half-life sample large enough for phenotype or regular testing after 5 weeks? Is that 5 weeks in a lab, or in a dead body, or it doesn't matter?

If foreign DNA can produce a profile after 5 weeks in a dead body, that's great news for women who are left on highway and rural ditches and fields. I'm skeptical.

 

[Al Hoffman]

My question is how long would DNA from the suspect be viable after death. That is, given that body cells erupt or disintegrate at an irregular rate after death, how well does foreign DNA, with a half-life deterioration rate, fare in that environment?

Just as in collecting comic books, the conditions under which the DNA is kept, post death, is EVERYTHING. (Some like it hot, some like it cold, the boys down in Patho like it in the coldbox 9 days old!) Under cool dry conditions, like the Atacama Peruvian high desert, DNA can have a 500+ year half-life. In a decaying body with active putrafication and digestion by trillions of eating, reproducing bacteria, not so long. To find the very small amount of reproductive zygote (sperm) and assorted skin contact DNA from an assailant on a decomposing body, after a month in the heat while laying on bacterial rich earth is SLIM TO NONE, but it has happened.

There is a cited article, or 3, WAY up-post that goes into the cited, scant anecdotal record of this having happened. One article noted that intact spermatids had been recoverd from a rape victim 5 months post-mortum in MAINE! The article did not cite time of year for the murder or recovery of the body. I tend to think it was in the "dead" of winter. Freezing retards bacterial degradation and digestion of DNA, and everything else.

Intact spermatids are a very good sign, as the head of the spermatid is like a little astronauts space capsule protecting the enclosed haploid (#23 Chromosome) zygotic DNA. The articles on this subject encouraged Medical Examiners to swab and collect for DNA, even if the ME thought it impossible to find identifiable DNA, because it is possible to do so, and if you don't try, you will never know what might have been there!

Bacterial digest EVERYTHING, including Diesel fuel, crude oil, some plastics, muscle, skin and DNA. The vagina and pouch of Douglas are made of highly putrafiable (the process of protein breakdown) muscle in the floor of the pelvis.

Your question is like how much dessert pie (CR's DNA) will be left on the College Cafeteria Buffet (the decaying body) after the Men's Rugby, Football, Soccer, and Basball teams (the various Thantomicrobiome bacteria species.) eat Dinner on a July training day.

I suggest you get to the dining hall as early as possible, or you will have to go with out dessert. And if you wait too long, there won't be much main course left either!

RE your earlier questions about DNA half-life: "What is the half-life of a piece of pie on the training table in the mess hall? Same for DNA in a decaying body.

 

[Al Hoffman]

It happens. Not a pleasant thought, but it does happen.

Can you spell C-O-U-G-A-R?

If you look it up in the "Urban Dictionary", there is a picture of her!

 

[Al Hoffman]

Sorry. I thought the 48 hours was related to the lifespan of the foreign DNA. Maybe I misunderstood, but my impression is that there is a half-life on foreign DNA in a dead body.

Dead bodies deteriorate irregularly, where some cells die faster than others? I don't think I want to know how long that lasts, but best guess is a day or so.

So, we have DNA that lasts 48 hours with a half-life decay rate in a body with a rapid decay rate. After 33 days, it must be factor of DNA half-life decay and human body decay.

I can't imagine that foreign DNA would last more than a couple of days in a dead body. My guess is no DNA connection between Mollie's body and the suspect, but there is evidence of Mollie's DNA in the suspect's car, connecting him to the "accidental" abduction/murder.

Cell autolysis, the rupture of all the cell membranes in the body occurs hours to days after death creating a "soup" for bacterial and enzymatic digestion and breakdown of the body.

After a week, most all cells in the body will be ruptured and partially digested by their own enzymes. Liver cells likely first, living bone cells I would think last (bone is a LIVING thing, in a LIVING body, full of Osteoclasts, Osteoblasts, Haverasian cells, and others. Where do you think bone cancer comes from?).

 

[Al Hoffman]

No, there is no mention of a DNA half-life in the original article or abstract posted.

The 48 hours refers to an automated 48 hour rapid lab analysis, an automated sequencing of the DNA code that takes 2 days to perform, to identify the bacteria species eating the body. There will aways be newly divided bacteria present in a decaying body (this is why they are a bio-hazard). The species present, and their staging, can be used to determine TOD (at least that is what the paper proposes...)

Bacterial Half-Life is usually used to refer to how fast they grow, and how many more there will be after time passes, as their growth is exponential. They reproduce by splitting apart and doubling, always doubling..... Like Sheldon did on the couch in "The Big Bang Theory"... on into the trillions in individual numbers, a couple of thousand bacterial species involved in the decay of a body, some of which can cause disease. These 2,000 species are what the article proposes to catalog.

Delete post

 

[Kaylas]

I read that, but it seemed so bizarre I thought it was ridiculous gossip. Why would a 50 year old woman more or less sexually bother a 20 year old man? Was she mentally ill?

Otto! I think she is a “Cougar”. Maybe a tad mental too. ONLY my opinion.

 

[rebel123]

Maybe Mollie twigged onto his two names (as did others in Brooklyn). CR running alongside; he won't go away; she says 'what's your real name?'; at that point he gets mad. You have to be stupid to have a Facebook page under your real name; someone whose smart just wouldn't do that.

 

[Jaclin]

Maybe Mollie twigged onto his two names (as did others in Brooklyn). CR running alongside; he won't go away; she says 'what's your real name?'; at that point he gets mad. You have to be stupid to have a Facebook page under your real name; someone whose smart just wouldn't do that.

I think you mean you have to be stupid to be illegal using an alias and have your FB page under your real name?

 

[rebel123]

Otto! I think she is a “Cougar”. Maybe a tad mental too. ONLY my opinion.

The new 50 is 35. Not me saying that but scientists.