Found Deceased IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #46

[SharonNeedles]

I have not heard anything on Vanessa either, sometimes I wonder if it is the area's and the courts are just so backed up it might be the reason it takes so long? Anyone have any idea why some trials come up quicker than others?

The Iowa courts are not really backed up, and had CR not waived his right to a speedy trial the state would need to bring him to trial within 90 days. In the end both sides agree to a date that they feel gives them enough time. But yes, either side could request a continuance which may or may not be granted. I have no idea whether to expect that in this case or not.

 

[The Farm]

In this case if it were up to me it would be over in a day.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I can’t see that happening in this case unfortunately.

I know, I originally had that as the last sentence in my original post, but decided to delete it. I think if Iowa had the DP on the table.....might be an incentive to plea.

Like the Chris Watts case in CO, he was facing the DP and shocked almost everyone this past week to pleading. Not by a sudden remorseful conscious...…..IMO

 

[PommyMommy]

Mollie Tibbetts’ death inspires fears
The recent murder of Mollie Tibbetts and acclaimed Iowa State golfer named Celia Barquin Arozamena has brought up a hidden fear to the world, but it has always been known to women.

Tibbetts was on a jog by herself when she was stalked then murdered this past July. For Arozamena, she was golfing mid-morning on a Saturday by herself on a golf course near Iowa State’s campus, but that didn’t prevent a man from brutally stabbing her then throwing her body into a nearby pond.

Obviously, the cases of Tibbetts and Arozamena were extreme and in most scenarios, wouldn’t occur every day. But both of these cases have brought up the fear women have dealt with for many years.

In a recent New York Times article titled “Running While Female” by Talya Minsberg, Tayla talks about how women “have adapted to the realities -and risks- of running while female”. And she mentions that there are several rules that women follow while running.

If you have ever run alone as a female, you will recognize these:

• Don’t wear headphones or have your music too loud that you can’t hear someone around you.
• Don’t run in the dark.
• Don’t run in a wooded area alone.
• Run in frequently populated areas.
• Don’t make eye contact with any man.

 

[MyBelle]

<respectfully snipped for space, BBM>

So his first instinct is to lie?

Everything I've typed after that question I've had to backspace away so I'll just leave it at that.

That would concern me if I was paying him. Not a good sign. JMO

 

[runfar262]

I have not heard anything on Vanessa either, sometimes I wonder if it is the area's and the courts are just so backed up it might be the reason it takes so long? Anyone have any idea why some trials come up quicker than others?

I am shocked at the lack of activity in Vanessa Marcotte's case. She was murdered that same summer as KV.

 

[otto]

Don't be surprised if a delay or continuance isn't announced at some point. The original trial date in high profile murder cases is often pushed back because one side or the other (usually the defense) requests it for various reasons - need to study evidence more, weren't given all information in due time, whatever.

It's actually more of a stall tactic than anything. What you want as a defense attorney if your client is dead to rights as this killer is, is time. Time for witnesses memories to get foggy so you can hit them on cross examination and thus their credibility, time for physical evidence to potentially go stale and so on. Your client is going to sit in jail regardless so there's no real rush.

It's not uncommon for a continuance to be requested a short time before the trial itself. The only way I see the killer plead out is if he can get a sentence that is less than what he'd get upon a guilty verdict. For example, Chris Watts pleaded guilty to avoid the death penalty he would've gotten once he was found guilty of his ghastly crimes. Since Iowa has no DP, it would only make sense legally for the killer to plead if he could get the possibility of parole in some number of years.

I get that morally the right thing to do is to apologize profusely, throw yourself on the mercy of the court and beg for forgiveness from God and Mollie's family and take your punishment like a man - but think about who we are dealing with here (a soulless animal) so unfortunately that likely isn't happening.

There's disclosure, and there's time to review the evidence. I skipped a lot of pages, so I'm not up to speed on this. Has the defense received disclosure?

I doubt he'll throw himself under the bus. Doesn't his defense involve something of a fugue state? I don't see any reason for him to abandon this argument. He has no memory between the time he chased her around his car and dumped her body. It might work.

 

[Seattle1]

Thinking of Mollie's family and friends. She would be going home tomorrow (11/18 through 11/25) for Thanksgiving recess and enjoy her break with all who loved her. How painful not to see her at the Thanksgiving table.

 

[Rocky1]

I have not heard anything on Vanessa either, sometimes I wonder if it is the area's and the courts are just so backed up it might be the reason it takes so long? Anyone have any idea why some trials come up quicker than others?

It depends on the case.
If there are multiple defendants, it's going to take longer for a trial to begin, because there may be mental evaluations that take time to process for each.
Sometimes, the defense may want to have evidence analyzed by an independent lab. That takes time.
There are scheduling issues. For example, a witness may be out of the country, and a trial may be delayed until he/she can return. People get sick.
There are pre-trial motion hearings like suppression hearings that take time. Different types like a "Mapp Hearing" to try and get evidence thrown out, and "Huntley Hearings" which in Vanessa's case Ryan (defense attorney) may argue that Ortiz was tricked into giving up his DNA, or was pressured into doing so. Another hearing is a "Wade Hearing" in which Ryan may argue that the state cop that happened to see Oritz driving down the road set him up and falsely identified him.
There are tons of discovery to go over before trial, and that takes time.
AGC2X above made a great post in regards to defense attorneys stalling so memories will fog, and that's true, however, it can also backfire, because it gives the prosecution more time to build a case.
OJ Simpson was arrested in June. He wanted a speedy trial so the state wouldn't have as much time to build their case. The jury was picked by November, his "Dream Team" of lawyers worked around the clock, and his trial started in January.
Overall, the courts want a speedy trial, because they also realize that as time goes on, memories fade. When there is a person sitting in a jail cell and not out on bond, that makes a difference. "Justice delayed is justice denied."
I agree, it is frustrating to wait so long for Vanessa's trial, however, keep in mind that the State only has one shot at finding Ortiz guilty, so IMO, I'd rather they take their time rather than miss something that they may regret.
The same holds true for any defense. Although I believe there's enough evidence to find Ortiz guilty without a doubt, (DNA, a pic of him through Parabon, phone records of him being there, witnesses that saw him there, and evidence of gasoline on her body with receipts showing that Ortiz bought gas 20 minutes after her phone was shut off) overall, I'd rather a defense lawyer be thorough and get an innocent client off, than for someone to be falsely convicted.

 

[Rocky1]

I have not heard anything on Vanessa either, sometimes I wonder if it is the area's and the courts are just so backed up it might be the reason it takes so long? Anyone have any idea why some trials come up quicker than others?

Just to add...
If you scroll down and read subsection 2, you'll find more information in regards to trials in Massachusetts.

Criminal Procedure Rule 36: Case management

 

[otto]

Has the defense received disclosure? How many pages was it?

If not, what is the due date for disclosure?

 

[otto]

If the defense has received disclosure, isn't the most likely reason for trial delay that the defense needs more time to review the documents? During that time, doesn't the prosecutor sometimes add a late document? Isn't everyone buying more time?

I'm a bit lost with discussion that trial delays must be monkey business by the defense.

 

[PommyMommy]

There's disclosure, and there's time to review the evidence. I skipped a lot of pages, so I'm not up to speed on this. Has the defense received disclosure?

I doubt he'll throw himself under the bus. Doesn't his defense involve something of a fugue state? I don't see any reason for him to abandon this argument. He has no memory between the time he chased her around his car and dumped her body. It might work.

From what I've learned (in another case) about dissociative fugue, that's not going to fly for CR. I agree that they may try though. MOO

 

[Ragnarok]

Episode 4: The Case of Mollie Tibbetts, Murdered While Running

 

[stereopticons]

From what I've learned (in another case) about dissociative fugue, that's not going to fly for CR. I agree that they may try though. MOO

I think I expressed my opinion about his defense in this thread before but I’m with you. It’s probably not going to work. Dissociative fugues are real, but has that defense ever worked? I can’t think of a case offhand where someone got off because of a dissociative fugue. It’s used so often, they even mention it in the musical Chicago (“I completely blacked out, it wasn’t until later when I was washing the blood off my hands that I even knew they were dead!”)

 

[PommyMommy]

I think I expressed my opinion about his defense in this thread before but I’m with you. It’s probably not going to work. Dissociative fugues are real, but has that defense ever worked? I can’t think of a case offhand where someone got off because of a dissociative fugue. It’s used so often, they even mention it in the musical Chicago (“I completely blacked out, it wasn’t until later when I was washing the blood off my hands that I even knew they were dead!”)

Wow! And no, I don't know of any cases where that defense has worked. MOO

 

[PommyMommy]

Well done, ST.

Scott Tibbetts, brother of Mollie, honored with Iowa Bankers Association scholarship
The brother of slain Iowa college student Mollie Tibbetts has been honored with a scholarship, following his standout Senior season on the football field and his performance in the classroom.

ST helped lead the BGM Bears to an 8-2 record and an appearance in the Iowa High School Athletic Association postseason during the 2018 season, immediately following a tragic summer which grabbed the attention of the entire state and country.

Tibbetts managed to suit up and start at quarterback for BGM’s season-opening game at Lisbon just three days after learning of Mollie’s tragic fate in August — and threw for two touchdowns while running for another in an emotional 35-24 win.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Episode 4: The Case of Mollie Tibbetts, Murdered While Running

I'm a runner and it pisses me off to have to be on hyper alert. Should not have to be this way for anyone......especially for Mollie.

She should be at home getting ready for the holidays and I have no doubt she would have been doing something to help others, volunteering, etc. Just the type of young lady she was IMO. Thoughts are with her family and loved ones during the holidays and the upcoming trial.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Interesting read:

Dissociative identity disorder: No excuse for criminal activity

<Snipped>
Clinical Point
An insanity defense is raised in <1% of felony cases, and is successful in only a fraction of those

Formerly called multiple personality disorder, dissociative identity disorder (DID) is a controversial diagnosis that challenges forensic psychiatrists, other mental health clinicians, legal professionals, the media, and the public. DID cases often present in the criminal justice system rather than in the mental health system, and the illness perplexes experts in both professions.

Defendants occasionally use DID as a basis for pleading not guilty by reason of insanity (NGRI). Controversy over the DID diagnosis has contributed to debates about the disorder’s role in criminal responsibility.

A criminal defendant who claims NGRI asserts that he committed the offense and asks the court to find him not culpable because of his mental state when the offense occurred.

 

[SharonNeedles]

I could be wrong of course, but I don’t see the defense going that route. Totally my speculation trying to put together everything we’ve seen since the arrest, but I get the distinct impression that CR is angling for 2nd degree Murder and making the state wage an uphill battle for first degree.