Found Deceased IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #46

[girlhasnoname]

I could be wrong of course, but I don’t see the defense going that route. Totally my speculation trying to put together everything we’ve seen since the arrest, but I get the distinct impression that CR is angling for 2nd degree Murder and making the state wage an uphill battle for first degree.

ITA with you SN.....I am still hoping he will plead out, but I don't think that'll happen since he has no incentive with IA a no DP state.

 

[geevee]

I could be wrong of course, but I don’t see the defense going that route. Totally my speculation trying to put together everything we’ve seen since the arrest, but I get the distinct impression that CR is angling for 2nd degree Murder and making the state wage an uphill battle for first degree.

If he keeps this set of attorneys, it seems they are going to go for diminished capacity to escape the 1st degree charge. Doubt they stand a chance but heck, no one thought Baez had a chance with his high profile trials.

 

[JudgeJoe]

From what I've learned (in another case) about dissociative fugue, that's not going to fly for CR. I agree that they may try though. MOO

Which case? So we can learn too!

 

[JudgeJoe]

Mollie Tibbetts’ death inspires fears
“The recent murder of Mollie Tibbetts and acclaimed Iowa State golfer named Celia Barquin Arozamena has brought up a hidden fear to the world, but it has always been known... (snipped for focus)”

Hmmmm. “Don’t run in wooded areas. Don’t run in populated areas.” What areas are left?

Better advice might be... run wherever you want, but carry mace, a live-stream gopro, airhorn & small revolver?

 

[PommyMommy]

Which case? So we can learn too!

The Watts case. I don’t want to get too far off-topic, so briefly - we had posters who tried to explain Chris Watts’ cover-up (dumping the bodies of his toddler daughters in crude oil tanks and burying his wife and unborn child in a shallow grave) by suggesting that he disassociated himself after he murdered them. But, there was no fugue-like state; a condition that is very rare.

Similar to CR in this case, Watts went to work as normal and had a clear recall of events leading up to the murders and his actions afterward. In fact, the very next day, Watts smiled and laughed as he gave three video interviews. These are not the actions of someone in a fugue state, and neither are CR’s, IMO. Following Mollie’s murder, CR knew who he was, where he was and apparently went about his life as usual.

“Dissociative fugue (formerly called psychogenic fugue) is a psychological state in which a person loses awareness of their identity or other important autobiographical information and also engages in some form of unexpected travel.”
Dissociative Fugue (Psychogenic Fugue) | Psychology Today

“A doctor may suspect dissociative fugue when people seem confused about their identity or are puzzled about their past or when confrontations challenge their new identity or absence of one.”
Fugue state - Wikipedia

MOO

 

[JudgeJoe]

The Watts case. I don’t want to get too far off-topic, so briefly - we had posters who tried to explain Chris Watts’ cover-up (dumping the bodies of his toddler daughters in crude oil tanks and burying his wife and unborn child in a shallow grave) by suggesting that he disassociated himself after he murdered them. But, there was no fugue-like state; a condition that is very rare.

Similar to CR in this case, Watts went to work as normal and had a clear recall of events leading up to the murders and his actions afterward. In fact, the very next day, Watts smiled and laughed as he gave three video interviews. These are not the actions of someone in a fugue state, and neither are CR’s, IMO. Following Mollie’s murder, CR knew who he was, where he was and apparently went about his life as usual.

“Dissociative fugue (formerly called psychogenic fugue) is a psychological state in which a person loses awareness of their identity or other important autobiographical information and also engages in some form of unexpected travel.”
Dissociative Fugue (Psychogenic Fugue) | Psychology Today

“A doctor may suspect dissociative fugue when people seem confused about their identity or are puzzled about their past or when confrontations challenge their new identity or absence of one.”
Fugue state - Wikipedia

MOO

Thanks- learning something new everyday! But in terms of CR, he claimed to have “blacked out”, with no memory of what happened between the moment MT stated she was calling police and the moment he dumped her body. There was no identity confusion or confusion about his life or whereabouts. Right? So by definition, fugue state would not apply? Do I understand this right?
Also... is it my imagination, or are these killers showing less and less disruption to their lives? Acting normal, going about work & usual activities. What is that? Desensitization? Detatchment? Whatever it is, killers seem less impacted by their crimes. MOO, of course.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Thanks- learning something new everyday! But in terms of CR, he claimed to have “blacked out”, with no memory of what happened between the moment MT stated she was calling police and the moment he dumped her body. There was no identity confusion or confusion about his life or whereabouts. Right? So by definition, fugue state would not apply? Do I understand this right?
Also... is it my imagination, or are these killers showing less and less disruption to their lives? Acting normal, going about work & usual activities. What is that? Desensitization? Detatchment? Whatever it is, killers seem less impacted by their crimes. MOO, of course.

BBM
It isn't your imagination. IMOO…"that" is pure Antisocial Personality Disorder/Sociopath.

www.md-health.com/sociopath-traits.html

• Callous unconcern for the feelings of others.
• Gross and persistent attitude of irresponsibility and disregard for social norms, and obligations.
• Incapacity to maintain enduring relationships, though having no difficulty in establishing them.
• Very low tolerance to frustration, a low threshold for discharge of aggression, including violence.
• Incapacity to experience guilt or to profit from experience, particularly punishment.
• Markedly prone to blame others or to offer plausible rationalization for the behavior that has brought the person into conflict with society.

I'd guess CR has a few of these.

Again, MOO

 

[mickey2942]

Hmmmm. “Don’t run in wooded areas. Don’t run in populated areas.” What areas are left?

Better advice might be... run wherever you want, but carry mace, a live-stream gopro, airhorn & small revolver?

This issue continues to hit home.

I have had a treadmill for 30 years, several of them. I bought it right after the "Central Park" rape. Sure, I run outside, but only during day, in well populated areas, no headphones.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Looks like there will be an upcoming hearing, do any of the legal eagles know what might happen here? I wonder if any discovery has been disclosed to the defense yet? Thanks

Comments: TRIAL MANAGEMENT HEARING 12/12/2018 09:30 AM 79DI.
INTERPRETER NOTIFIED THRU EMAIL

 

[PommyMommy]

Thanks- learning something new everyday! But in terms of CR, he claimed to have “blacked out”, with no memory of what happened between the moment MT stated she was calling police and the moment he dumped her body. There was no identity confusion or confusion about his life or whereabouts. Right? So by definition, fugue state would not apply? Do I understand this right?
Also... is it my imagination, or are these killers showing less and less disruption to their lives? Acting normal, going about work & usual activities. What is that? Desensitization? Detatchment? Whatever it is, killers seem less impacted by their crimes. MOO, of course.

Yes, that's my opinion - that CR was not in a fugue state. I'm not a mental health expert and don't have any fancy words to answer your question, "What is that?" I'd just call it a convenient excuse for an evil act. MOO

 

[JudgeJoe]

Duplicate- deleted

 

[mickey2942]

Yes, that's my opinion - that CR was not in a fugue state. I'm not a mental health expert and don't have any fancy words to answer your question, "What is that?" I'd just call it a convenient excuse for an evil act. MOO

I don't really see that as a viable defense. So, okay you were in a "fugue", Not Guilty, go get meds? Not gonna happen in Iowa. This isn't a Florida or California jury. Fancy theories and psychobabble may work there...but not in "Fly Over" states where people still have some sense.

 

[lukass_6]

I'm from the area, and I don't mean to make a sweeping statement, but quite a few people from my area are closed minded, and one may even go as far to say, borderline racist- especially in the more rural areas. I don't think that CR will get a truly 'fair' case. Maybe I missed something, but I also don't see how the case can be tried in Poweshiek Co. as it was so heavily covered by media in that area, which is also super small. I'm ignorant to how juries work, but finding one that doesn't know about the case and isn't prejudice would be hard. It's not like they can fly in jurers from elsewhere, right? Like I said, maybe I missed something, but I can't believe it's being held in Poweshiek county.

 

[JudgeJoe]

I don't really see that as a viable defense. So, okay you were in a "fugue", Not Guilty, go get meds? Not gonna happen in Iowa. This isn't a Florida or California jury. Fancy theories and psychobabble may work there...but not in "Fly Over" states where people still have some sense.

Now, now, let’s not make sweeping statements. Having been a resident of CA, IA, FL, and 6 other states, I can tell you that goofy grasping-at-straws defenses aren’t going to fly most places- most of the time. Well, OK, sometimes CA. But FL is not lettin’ go of its death penalty & actually uses it still. Most of the time, common sense kicks in when a catastrophic, violent injustice has occurred. Most of the time...

 

[girlhasnoname]

I'm from the area, and I don't mean to make a sweeping statement, but quite a few people from my area are closed minded, and one may even go as far to say, borderline racist- especially in the more rural areas. I don't think that CR will get a truly 'fair' case. Maybe I missed something, but I also don't see how the case can be tried in Poweshiek Co. as it was so heavily covered by media in that area, which is also super small. I'm ignorant to how juries work, but finding one that doesn't know about the case and isn't prejudice would be hard. It's not like they can fly in jurers from elsewhere, right? Like I said, maybe I missed something, but I can't believe it's being held in Poweshiek county.

The Defense might ask for a change of venue....not unusual in a high profile case like this. Yes, CR will have an opportunity for a fair trial regardless.

I lived in Cedar Falls, about an hour away, for several years and can categorically deny any claims of "closed minded or borderline racism" from any of my colleagues/friends or community in general. In fact, it was quite the opposite and one of things I appreciated the most while living there.

 

[katydid23]

I'm from the area, and I don't mean to make a sweeping statement, but quite a few people from my area are closed minded, and one may even go as far to say, borderline racist- especially in the more rural areas. I don't think that CR will get a truly 'fair' case. Maybe I missed something, but I also don't see how the case can be tried in Poweshiek Co. as it was so heavily covered by media in that area, which is also super small. I'm ignorant to how juries work, but finding one that doesn't know about the case and isn't prejudice would be hard. It's not like they can fly in jurers from elsewhere, right? Like I said, maybe I missed something, but I can't believe it's being held in Poweshiek county.

You don't feel his trial will be fair? Are you implying they might be going after the wrong guy here?

Are you aware that the defendant led police to the girl's body in the cornfield? And she had been forced into the trunk of his car?

 

[KaaBoom]

You don't feel his trial will be fair? Are you implying they might be going after the wrong guy here?

Are you aware that the defendant led police to the girl's body in the cornfield? And she had been forced into the trunk of his car?

Yeah, if it weren't for that little detail, I would be skeptical they have the right guy. But at that point the probability of guilt increased to about 99.99%. I'm sure his trial will be more than fair. Where ever or however the trial is held, the results will be the same.

 

[MistyWaters]

Looks like there will be an upcoming hearing, do any of the legal eagles know what might happen here? I wonder if any discovery has been disclosed to the defense yet? Thanks

Comments: TRIAL MANAGEMENT HEARING 12/12/2018 09:30 AM 79DI.
INTERPRETER NOTIFIED THRU EMAIL

Prior news reports iirc indicated the prosecution had every intention of handing over discovery within established timelines but did not indicate any specific dates.

The upcoming “trial management hearing” was talked about here earlier as well and from my understanding, it appears to be similar to a case management conference, where the judge seeks an overview involving both sides to ensure legal preparation, exchange of discovery, etc is proceeding as it should, in preparation for the future trial date.

 

[lukass_6]

You don't feel his trial will be fair? Are you implying they might be going after the wrong guy here?

Are you aware that the defendant led police to the girl's body in the cornfield? And she had been forced into the trunk of his car?

I'm not implying that they are going after the wrong guy- at least not in this post. I honestly have my suspicions that he might've been set up, but it's just a crazy conspiracy. However, I was saying I'm not sure if he'll get a fair trial due to the extensive media coverage and racial bias that some in the area might have, but not admit.

 

[lukass_6]

The Defense might ask for a change of venue....not unusual in a high profile case like this. Yes, CR will have an opportunity for a fair trial regardless.

I lived in Cedar Falls, about an hour away, for several years and can categorically deny any claims of "closed minded or borderline racism" from any of my colleagues/friends or community in general. In fact, it was quite the opposite and one of things I appreciated the most while living there.

Well that makes me glad to hear! My inner circle of people aren't that way either, however, there are still many, at least in eastern Iowa. My family has an agricultural business, and we get farmers from several different counties, and some of the ignorant things you hear the customers discuss is saddening. But as I said, I didn't mean to make a sweeping statement, and I hope he gets a fair trial.