ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 57

[10ofRods]

Or that someone did. The PCA appears deliberately vague beyond that being potentially consistent with the roommate's story (I am guessing, but it does not say, they know the people in the house, investigators and paramedics were not wearing Vans)

Investigators are shown wearing booties. I'm guessing EC did not own Van's, plus of course, it was a latent bloody footprint, and EC was not out of bed that night, IMO.

 

[TL4S]

Her body was also on the floor. I found that relevant.

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/122922%20Affidavit%20-%20Exhibit%20A%20-%20Statement%20of%20Brett%20Payne.pdf

Link to Exhibit A

I do too. E has to be a factor to consider here, because unless he was completely plastered out of his wits, there's no way BK could have murdered X, with her crying all the while, and somebody talking to her, without E waking up and reacting somehow. And we know X was awake during the whole event, so how could BK murder E without X either fighting him, shouting, or fleeing, especially if she wasn't cornered in the room, but right by the door. DM didn't report hearing any of this kind of sound (unless she did but it wasn't included in the PCA).

Instead, DM reports hearing crying, twice, coming from X's room. I know it's contentious whether or not that is blood dripping down the side of the house, but its placement would be consistent with a body bleeding against the wall of that room, the wall nearest where the camera captured a loud thud at 4:17. I think that was E and BK. I do think other posters' idea about the order the murder charges were listed could be order of death (maybe, maybe not), but maybe X was stabbed before E, injured, then E was killed, and finally, BK came back to X to "help" her, and he finished the job right before DM saw him leave. It's the only way I can put all the details together with what I know so far, which isn't much...

 

[pittsburghgirl]

That would be true had she not froze in fear. The freezing in fear tells me she was, her brain was, well aware of the danger.

I'm suggesting that there is more than one thing going on. You see a stranger in the house, middle of the night. You freeze in fear. You shut the door. And then start to recount all the other things that seem normal. As I said on the other thread, Gavin De Becker has described this often fatal triumph of "logic" over instinct.

 

[thoughts101]

My thoughts are she was eating door dash and scrolling TikTok, not creating one.

I agree entirely. The DoorDash was on or around 4:00am, based on the PCA. X was already sat down eating her food, perhaps on the sofa, checking her phone - and then became aware of noises or scuffles upstairs and/or saw their attacker exiting via the kitchen. The view from the sofa into the kitchen is obscured from the living room, according to the floor plans that are available, so potentially the perp also entered while X was in the living room.

 

[MikeHammer911]

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case...vit - Exhibit A - Statement of Brett-Payne.pd

http://

I do think the Door Dash delivery was probably one reason why the surviving witness wasn't absolutely sure something bad was going on. People coming in late, the dog barking, people talking---all of that was a lot going on that could be just normal. The Door Dash delivery established that the night's normal "comings and goings" weren't over. Someone trying to sleep through the commotion might default cognitively to "it's normal--Door Dash was just here."

How did DM know DoorDash was there? And how normal is it to face a dark hooded man with bushy eyebrows after 4 AM even i a party house? As she explained in the affidavit, she was frozen in terror. But manage to lock the door. Whats really weird is that she did not call the cops.

 

[RainbowRoad]

MOO, and this may have been discussed. Does anyone else think that the second time BK was pulled over for tailgating was a bit of a blunder? I’m guessing the assignment was dispatched across LE on a stretch of highway to pull him over if they could for something like “tailgating” which is easy enough to do, get a good look, and let him go with a warning.

The second LE seemed surprised to hear that he had already been pulled over - maybe he hadn’t received info that it had occurred and then was trying to recover without being too obvious. Even asked him what type of LE had pulled him over as he was probably scrambling in his brain.

Also - if anyone gets pulled over for something and receives a warning then gets pulled over again for the same thing I would expect that person would naturally receive a ticket. 2nd LE went through with the assignment of “pull him over, her a good look and let him go with a warning”.
MOO

 

[DieHardChick1]

Bryan Kohberger believed to have joined online discussion groups

Former FBI investigator Jennifer Coffindaffer suggested that suspect Bryan Kohberger joined social media discussion groups about the Idaho murders.

www.dailymail.co.uk

what an idiot for someone with that much education

Just read about this today. Apparently the FB group had 150K followers. Now it's gone, but that particular member was commenting for weeks with incredible accuracy.

 

[gizmobtj]

Long time reader on WS about this case but my first post. If (according to the PCA), they had BK's name by November 29, why didn't they get his DNA from his own garbage? Why use his parents garbage in late December?

Source: Idaho PCA

Congrats on your first post!

This might offer a clue. BK was CAREFUL.

Idaho suspect in student murders thoroughly cleaned vehicle, also seen wearing surgical gloves multiple times outside family home, source says | CNN

The man accused of murdering four University of Idaho students in November had thoroughly cleaned the interior and exterior of his car and was also seen wearing surgical gloves multiple times before being apprehended, a law enforcement source tells CNN.

www.google.com

 

[10ofRods]

Or that someone did. The PCA appears deliberately vague beyond that being potentially consistent with the roommate's story (I am guessing, but it does not say, they know the people in the house, investigators and paramedics were not wearing Vans)

Investigators are shown wearing booties. I'm guessing EC did not own Van's, plus of course, it was a latent bloody footprint, and EC was not out of bed that night, IMO.

 

[chrisinmd]

This case makes me realize how much easier it was to get away with murder say 25 or 40 years ago.

Imagine doing this same crime in 1972 or 1992 instead of 2022? Would not have to worry about half the people in the neighborhood having doorbell cameras or other surveillance cameras. Your cell phone would not be basically a GPS attached to you and record all your communications and search history. And DNA science was in its infancy. Basically all the things that led to Bk arrest didn't exist or were much more limited

 

[Speculaytor]

A very plausible theory I have read elsewhere, and maybe someone has posted on here I just haven't read it, is that he was trying to make this look like the other two stabbings in Wa (I think they were both in Wa) to make it appear there was a serial killer. They think this because each of the other killings were also in the early morning hours of the 13th of a month. They posed that the date is the reason he did this when he did, despite all of the cars in the driveway etc. I think this is a grand idea as it would have allowed him to discuss it at length in his PhD program. Imagine if the sheath had not been left, maybe this would not have been solved and Bryan could have talked about it forever. IDK thought it was plausible IMO.

 

[passionflower]

By peeping outside their property in the night. Clearly he could see different girls in different rooms that had windows.

I bet he was a peeper for a couple weeks and knew the habits of the household

 

[BlueTunes]

That would be true had she not froze in fear. The freezing in fear tells me she was, her brain was, well aware of the danger.

Jmo I believe the killer didn’t notice her looking out the door when he passed by and if that’s true then her body freezing up likely saved her life. If she screamed or moved the killer would have taken notice and killed her too.

 

[SMK777]

I don’t think the plan was ever to kill 4 people.

I believe Kohberger was not anticipating:

1. Anyone awake at 4 am
2. DoorDash delivery at 4 am
3. Dog barking
4. The presence of Ethan in the house

 

[Speculaytor]

I'm suggesting that there is more than one thing going on. You see a stranger in the house, middle of the night. You freeze in fear. You shut the door. And then start to recount all the other things that seem normal. As I said on the other thread, Gavin De Becker has described this often fatal triumph of "logic" over instinct.

Yes, I understand what you are saying. "How many times have you seen a man, in all black, with a mask on covering everything but his eyes, in your house at 4 am" the defense will ask.

 

[10ofRods]

I don't see a loop in which a belt would be passed through.

I think that style is designed for pocket carry. IMO.

 

[passionflower]

Just read about this today. Apparently the FB group had 150K followers. Now it's gone, but that particular member was commenting for weeks with incredible accuracy.

Could be so he could feel superior in his theories to followers. Almost secretly bragging. Bet he feels alittle dumb now

 

[thoughts101]

Long time reader on WS about this case but my first post. If (according to the PCA), they had BK's name by November 29, why didn't they get his DNA from his own garbage? Why use his parents garbage in late December?

Source: Idaho PCA

I had understood that Washington state has stricter laws on DNA recovery and trash, whereas PA does not and the police have less constraint. Perhaps they took rubbish hoping to find BK's DNA as by this point in time they had more evidence to proceed, but could not as he had not been leaving any traces in the PA bins so instead tested what they had. JMO - perhaps a US lawyer knows?

 

[Friday Fan]

I agree entirely. The DoorDash was on or around 4:00am, based on the PCA. X was already sat down eating her food, perhaps on the sofa, checking her phone - and then became aware of noises or scuffles upstairs and/or saw their attacker exiting via the kitchen. The view from the sofa into the kitchen is obscured from the living room, according to the floor plans that are available, so potentially the perp also entered while X was in the living room.

Oh yeah. That's possible. Floor plan is so odd that it's hard for me to figure out. I wish I could memorize it, but I get lost.

 

[cottonweaver]

I think he was there at 0404 (in the wee hours of the morning) when he was cruising around just prior, and then executes the three point turn.

It is a very brief time indeed - and in fact, to me is so far the most surprising fact we've learned from the PCA. Who would have thought that?

Which is why I believe he went in to kill, used his boxing skills combined with big knife "skill" and rapidly bore down upon his targets. I believe he thought speedy skilling would reduce his own overall risk, as an apparent proponent of Rational Criminal Theory or whatever that's called in criminology (this is from some source posted yesterday, a student or professor mentioned it but I can't find the link so IMO he liked that theory).

Rational Choice Theory is what it's called (at least I bookmarked the proper name). The idea that explaining a crime is best done by considering that criminals are capable of reasoning and rational action, within the framework of their own goals.

I think this particular person would have a hard time actually going back into the house (which he wanted to do, IMO, when he realized the sheath was missing) in broad daylight. He would have had a hard time facing up to his bloody crimes in the light of day.

This man hoped for a relatively "clean" experience for himself and planned his murders (including where he placed the stab wounds) with that in mind and I believe we may hear more about that at the prelim or whenever the autopsies are eventually discussed. Things went to plan on the third floor, more or less, but because Xana was still up and about on the second floor, he may have been flustered. He may even have injured himself, as Xana was not in bed and his method (probably kneeling on the victim's legs or similar in order to immobilize them) was thwarted. She did not bleed out on the mattress as he had planned, there was blood all over the floor and he stepped in it.

So the latent print(s) and the visible prints, as well as the sheath were all things he did not plan to leave behind. I wonder if any DNA would have been found if not for the knife sheath. Fibers, maybe, but I bet he's disposed of every item he wore that night, along with the knife - probably that very night. LE may have some idea of how many times he stopped (some of his stops seem to be documented in the PCA).

agree to all although never heard of RC theory

Re the prints he left, it will be interesting to find if they found any fingerprints at all or just the touch DNA on that button snap of the knife and I'm hoping they have found more than one bloody foot print.

IDUnderstand how they could only find one because I don't recall any rugs downstairs in that living room ( Hopefully somebody more familiar with 1122 interior decor can chip in.)
Be great if they could find another footprint/s so we could know if he did just calmly exit, walking pace, after killing his final victim & dog starts barking. ( We know he sped away once in his vehicle )