ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 57

[redrunner02]

Just watching Fox News and Ted Williams said Xana and Ethan were killed first and that we still don’t know who the target(s) were but they wouldn’t have needed to go upstairs if the targets were one or both of those

Ted says a lot of erroneous things. At one point he said the surviving roommates were on the third floor. For months he said they were in the basement.

I put no stock in anything he says.

!00% Correct. This guy has stated many things that just are not accurate. Nowhere in the PCA does it say the order of deaths. He never states "IMO this is the order of deaths". Rather, he talks like this information is open to the public. That whole segment was a total bungled up interpretation of the PCA. He said BK told DM "It's ok. I'm here to help you." as he walked towards her. That is just not accurate according to the wording in the PCA.

 

[cottonweaver]

I’m still on the fence about it being a twin bed, or by using the word single, they mean ‘one bed’. Typically we’d call a one person bed a twin, not a single (Which is what the PCA says). I tried to see if I could tell from the mattresses being removed if the one in the back might have been a twin bed (the one in the foreground definitely isn’t). But not sure.

What I can say is I went back for this photo and if you zoom in to the top bedroom, which is KG’s, my brain interprets that as messy bedclothes like someone was sleeping and threw the blankets off.

I still think KG was in bed and went to see what was going on in MM’s room.

IDK the exact bed sizes per type - but if they're quite distinctly larger/smaller - can it be done by looking-up the spec of the particular truck's width?

 

[OverTheRhine]

I feel like if he was stalking them and had been to the house around 12 times (that we know of) he would know who drove the jeep and probably all of the cars. I think he knew was there just by who was parked outside.

 

[Cedars]

Some thoughts after reading the PCA again. I'm really curious what time precisely that DM awoke the first time. It says approx 4 and she was awoken by what she thought was K playing with her dog. We know that at 4 is when the Door Dash driver arrived, so my initial thought was that that could have woken her, but IMO that wouldn't have sounded like someone playing with a dog on the third floor. So I wonder if she woke up later than 4, possibly when BK was already in the house.

When she says a short time later she hears someone say "There's someone here," I do think that was X. The PCA also states it could have been X as data showed she was on TikTok until 4:12. IMO I think M and K were already asleep at this time. There was nothing in the PCA like data from their phones stating that they were awake. We know the phone calls to J stopped by 3. I think they had been hanging out in M's room eating their pasta, drunk dialing, scrolling their phones, etc. and sometime after 3 but before 4 fell asleep in the same bed together. They were lifelong friends and I don't find this odd at all. I also wouldn't find it odd that K's dog was in the other bedroom. Sometimes dogs like to spread out on a bed - and possibly it was used to being in that room from when K lived in the house. I recently had Covid and spent some time sleeping on my recliner in the living room because I was so stuffy I couldn't sleep laying down in bed and my dog chose to still sleep in my bed in the other room so she could sprawl out lol.

My thought is X got the Door Dash food and brought it back to her bedroom for either her and E to eat or E was asleep and she ate it alone. Just ten or so minutes later when the Door Dash guy is long gone, she hears what sounds like someone either opening the sliding door or walking through the kitchen area and says (very possibly to E), "There's someone here." Or possibly she heard someone walking up the stairs or moving around upstairs but knew the two girls upstairs were already asleep. I think he quickly killed both girls upstairs. I agree with the poster who said maybe this was a mission to rape M and he had no idea K would be in bed with her, so he therefore ended up murdering both of them as they both woke up.

He then came back downstairs and possibly X was in her doorway or outside of it checking to see who was in the house and what was going on, so he pushed her back in her room to murder her, and then subsequently discovered E. At this point would be when DM opens the door when she hears crying and the comment "It's OK. I'll help you."

The thing is we don't have definite time stamps of when DM opens her door three times. She may have glanced at a clock once to know it was after 4 but otherwise doesn't know herself. It's possible she also would open her door, lay back down, drift off, then awake again, open the door again, etc. so her timeline is fuzzy as she was unsure how long she'd drift off for between door openings. All IMO only.

I totally agree.

This also speaks to motive, and IMO reflects how very quickly these murders occurred.

IMO BK was stoked to get in and out very fast - commit his violence and then get away - because he was terrified of getting caught.

Most rapists/killers target a woman living alone. He was perfectly aware there were other people spread around the house, so he was taking a big risk.

I don't think he broke in expecting to leisurely take his time in killing everyone, as many theories assumed. He knew that everyone had their cellphones handy and could instantly lock themselves in and call 911 if they realized what was happening.

So I think he planned to break in, go upstairs and kill one or both women, and then exit the house. I think this reflects that he had been spying into their bedrooms all those months, from the side of the road. He couldn't see the other women's bedroom from that location.

I think the commotion that woke up DM was the murders happening above her bedroom. I don't think brutally stabbing two people is a silent operation: great force is being used, he's not tiptoeing around, gently poking. She thought maybe it was the dog jumping around.

I think Xana, being unexpectedly wide awake, came out to see what was happening and saw him starting to come down the stairs. And he saw her. She was alarmed, quickly terrified - he chased her into her room before she could call 911. But, luckily for DM, she froze and didn't attract his attention, so he didn't react to her as a threat - he was focussed on getting out and far away asap, as per his original plan.


JMO

 

[kittythehare]

I have no idea how many he came to kill, but my own view of his mental situation tells me he came to kill and probably had the idea of a mass killing in his mind. This is a man who studied, and some say, was obsessed with serial killers and mass murderers.

He drove around the neighborhood working himself up (each time he went over to the neighborhood, he likely got closer to the mindset he needed to do this crime).

That night, he realized it was the best opportunity he'd had and he was mentally and otherwise prepared. There's no way, in my mind, that he didn't have plans to keep his DNA out of the scene, to clean up after, to dump evidence after. He had plastic bags in the car. He knew he would have to dispose of the knife. He figured he might get blood on him (although chose a style of knifing that was least likely to do so - something that can be researched online). He was prepared for all of that.

And if he wasn't, then that car is going to be a damning piece of evidence and he has to be shaking in his boots, as it seems he preferred not to be caught.

Agree with this.
He was extraordinarily well prepared and left very little after him as far as we know currently.

 

[TechGirl]

Just a comment: My thoughts and concerns continue to be with DM and BF. Most of us can only imagine what those two young women saw and experienced. I hope they are receiving professional care and support, and at some point are able to move forward with their lives.

 

[Friday Fan]

Make of my theory what you will but this part in the affidavit has been really nagging at me since I read it:

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D.M. stated she originally went to sleep in her bedroom on the southeast side of the second floor.

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Why state originally?.

This from interviews with family.

Kaylee's Sister, brother, dad:

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Reporter - The mother of one of the surviving roommates, reminding our viewers, there were two roommates who were upstairs and survived this, told a reporter that those roommates heard something, heard something that night. Have you been told?. Have you heard from sharing with other relatives of the other victims what that was exactly?.

Brother - We haven't spoken to the roommates, surviving roommates. And they were downstairs, just to clarify that for you, sir.
link

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Xana's mum.

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Banfield - May I ask you if you can confirm that Xana's room was on the second floor of the house?.

Mom - Yes, I can confirm that. I just had a question about the other two roommates who were there on the first floor and I just wonder, wasn't something heard, the surviving roommates that were there, they had to have heard something. They had to have.. the dog, something.

Banfield - I can help you with that, somewhat. There is information from a prior tenant who lived on the first floor, who said when he lived there in 2019 he moved out. He said he could never hear anything on the second or third floor. If the television was playing very loudly on the second floor, he might hear it from the first floor. And I don't know if that helps you to understand.

Mom - The dog heard it and the dog had to have been barking, you know.

Banfield - I have information there as well. Our Brian Entin spoke with the parents of Kaylee Gonsalves and they have actually referred to that and Brian's going to play that interview in a moment. But, B and D., on that first floor, may not have been able to hear anything,

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Banfield - I do want to ask you if you know whether or not Xana had a lock on her bedroom door?.

Mom - I believe she did, yes.

Banfield - Do you know if it was a lock that was a code that you would punch in on the bedroom door?. The prior tenant who used to live there said that every one of the doors in that home, all six bedrooms, were rented separately like apartments and they all had coded locks. But lots of social media pictures have shown at least one of the locks on the door across from the kitchen on the second floor, it didn't appear to have a coded lock, but do you think that Xana's room had a coded lock?.
link

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Is it at all plausible that Dylan was originally sleeping in the 2nd floor room but after seeing the masked man ran to her old room on the 1st floor that has a coded lock?. Hence why she didn't call anyone, because she didn't take her phone with her?.

As has been stated there's a lot of info. in the affidavit that will have been left out.

I think they didn't know that DM had moved to the second floor.
Xana's mom had never been to the house.

 

[Elley Mae]

Agree. He wanted to be a Ranger. The fighting knife is a weapon of quiet ambush. MOO he probably got the knife in his teens, or got a new one as that reminded him of his teen wish to be a Ranger.
Reportedly girls teased and bullied him in HS. Likely he was creepy then too, and they tried to keep him away.

Same thought.

 

[Allabouttrial]

No IMO: "originally" could mean "the first time" she went to sleep that night. The PCA does not suggest that she changed rooms, in fact the opposite as she locked her bedroom door after seeing the intruder on the second floor.

So 'no' it's not plausible?..

 

[gizmobtj]

I think he was there at 0404 (in the wee hours of the morning) when he was cruising around just prior, and then executes the three point turn.

It is a very brief time indeed - and in fact, to me is so far the most surprising fact we've learned from the PCA. Who would have thought that?

Which is why I believe he went in to kill, used his boxing skills combined with big knife "skill" and rapidly bore down upon his targets. I believe he thought speedy skilling would reduce his own overall risk, as an apparent proponent of Rational Criminal Theory or whatever that's called in criminology (this is from some source posted yesterday, a student or professor mentioned it but I can't find the link so IMO he liked that theory).

Rational Choice Theory is what it's called (at least I bookmarked the proper name). The idea that explaining a crime is best done by considering that criminals are capable of reasoning and rational action, within the framework of their own goals.

I think this particular person would have a hard time actually going back into the house (which he wanted to do, IMO, when he realized the sheath was missing) in broad daylight. He would have had a hard time facing up to his bloody crimes in the light of day.

This man hoped for a relatively "clean" experience for himself and planned his murders (including where he placed the stab wounds) with that in mind and I believe we may hear more about that at the prelim or whenever the autopsies are eventually discussed. Things went to plan on the third floor, more or less, but because Xana was still up and about on the second floor, he may have been flustered. He may even have injured himself, as Xana was not in bed and his method (probably kneeling on the victim's legs or similar in order to immobilize them) was thwarted. She did not bleed out on the mattress as he had planned, there was blood all over the floor and he stepped in it.

So the latent print(s) and the visible prints, as well as the sheath were all things he did not plan to leave behind. I wonder if any DNA would have been found if not for the knife sheath. Fibers, maybe, but I bet he's disposed of every item he wore that night, along with the knife - probably that very night. LE may have some idea of how many times he stopped (some of his stops seem to be documented in the PCA).

Just a small note, the Rational Choice Theory expresses that individuals are in control of their decisions and don't make choices because of unconscious drives, tradition or environmental influences.

It comes from economics and made its way into sociology, politics, organizational analysis and social work. It's also been proven wholly inadequate in each of those fields (stocks don't reflect a company's real price-to-earningd, markets crash when the fundamentals are good, countries operate outside their interests, people have multiple drivers and unconscious biases, tradition and environmental factors, including with criminals, are alive and well and involved in out decsion making).

 

[BlueTunes]

BK and DM met face to face according to affidavit. That's how she saw the bushy eyebrows. He spared her life because the targets were killed. That's most logical.

The affidavit never said they came “face to face”.

 

[kittythehare]

here's the sheath on a belt on a woman - already had the image to hand. Would like to know from Ranch if it's the same length.View attachment 393543

Wow, thanks for finding that.
That sheath looks pretty unyielding.

 

[Elley Mae]

Could have picked up the knife at a gun show.

 

[Cindizzi]

I would like to know everyone's opinions on the August 21 traffic stop when BK was by the Kings Road residence. Did a neighbor call in a suspicious vehicle that was spending a lot of time in the area? Did BK simply draw a patrolling officer's attention? Is it known if he was cited for a violation?

From the affadavit:

One of these occasions, on August 21, 2022, the 8458 phone utilized cellular resources providing coverage to the King Road residence from approximately 10:34 pm to 11:35 pm. At approximately 11:37 pm., Kohberger was stopped by Latah County Sheriff's Deputy CPL Duke as mentioned above. The 8548 phone was utilizing cellular resources consistent with the location of the traffic stop during this time (Farm Road and Pullman Highway).

BK was written a ticket for not wearing his seatbelt.

I’m wondering if he was stalking the house and someone/something made him take off in a hurry? Just a thought.

Because of this ticket LE had his phone number to trace and also the fact that his car had PA plates in August.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1610693721309483014

 

[schooling]

All of that info was posted on FB a few days after the murder's by someone related to LE. It was also sent to YT creators. IMO, that's where he got the info.

Ya the “with great accuracy” thing is greatly over exaggerated. There was a 1 or 2 day window after the crimes where a huge chunk of info/rumors dropped that all turned out to be true (now that the affidavit is out). And it’s the basis for a lot of the theories out there.

DMs version of events leaked around the 17th of November. The reason it was dismissed is because a lot of people couldnt rationalize the wait time to call LE.

 

[CLGM]

There's been discussion about how this was likely not the act of a first-time killer. There's an open case in Atlanta where a woman was brutally and brazenly stabbed in a public park at night in July 2021 -- her dog was also stabbed. I thought she was killed by someone close to her -- the attack was vicious and seemed personal. But nobody has been arrested and her partner and others have been interviewed numerous times. It seems like the trail is cold.

I'm not sure what BK's connection to Atlanta might be -- there doesn't seem to be anything that we know about his life that suggested that he ever would have gone there. But, there are a lot of similarities to this case... I just wondered if anybody following this case was following that one also and had thoughts about it.

Police seek clues after woman and dog killed in Atlanta park
''ATLANTA -- Investigators sought video from homes and businesses near a popular Atlanta park as divers searched a pond in their quest to solve the stabbing death of a parkgoer who was walking her dog.

Katherine Janness, 40, was found dead in Piedmont Park around 1 a.m. Wednesday. Police say her dog was also killed. No arrests have been made.''

''Janness was found stabbed multiple times and Atlanta police Deputy Chief Charles Hampton described the scene as “gruesome.”

Here's the link to the websleuth thread:

GA - Katherine Janness, 40, walking dog, both fatally stabbed, Piedmont Park, Atlanta, 28 July 2021

Police seek clues after woman and dog killed in Atlanta park ''ATLANTA -- Investigators sought video from homes and businesses near a popular Atlanta park as divers searched a pond in their quest to solve the stabbing death of a parkgoer who was walking her dog. Katherine Janness, 40, was found...

www.websleuths.com

 

[Friday Fan]

Question about TikTok: Per the statement from Payne (BBM), "A review of records obtained from a forensic download of Kernodle's phone showed this could also have been Kernodle as her cellular phone indicated she was likely awake and using the TikTok app at approximately 4:12 a.m." I don't use that app but I assume it works like many others, whereby you can choose to let the app show you as online or offline. Does anyone think Payne's statement was based on her showing as online, or did she perhaps post something timestamped 4:12 a.m.? I'm sort of getting my hopes up that her phone was recording when the murderer was in her home.

I don't use TIkTok, but like other SM, there are "likes" and "comments". She maybe, "liked" something..kinda like FB or twitter.

 

[IceCreamSundae]

@layer -right before we moved threads you had replied to my musing about that being the second time he was at the house that night. Just to clarify then I’ll drop it-the thinking is that he went by earlier (in the 320 timeframe). Entered on foot (parked elsewhere). Killed m (and k because she was there as well). Left.

Realized he left the sheath. Panicked and WENT BACK (which is why the weird turn arounds, etc). What dm heard-playing with dog-is him looking for sheath. Xana-still alive-says “someone is in here” and alerts e. BK hears that and decides it’s time to leave-but is discovered so killed x and e THEN. DM sees him leaving.

Honestly I know it’s far fetched. I read another post from a ws’er late last night and started trying to figure out if it could have happened that way. In my mind only-it helps to explain the timing, and the weirdness of the car turning around. Etc…. But it’s just me. Moo. Just wanted to explain.

I think this isn’t plausible bc both X and E were found in the bedroom. That room is around a corner from the kitchen, which houses the sliding door. Even if X and E had woken up and make some noise, they were still in the bedroom. He could easily have run from upstairs and out the sliding door without encountering them at all.

 

[SuziQ]

BK and DM met face to face according to affidavit. That's how she saw the bushy eyebrows. He spared her life because the targets were killed. That's most logical.

He just killed four people. Why would he spare D's life? He may have killed X merely because she was a witness. So again why would he spare D's, another witness, life? Imo. D was not killed because he didn't see her. Imo.

 

[SuziQ]

I do believe this could be true; that is why she closed her door and locked it. She was frozen in fear. I just don't understand why she didn't act on that.

There is nothing that says she was frozen in fear.