ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 57

[b2alicia]

It's just a few steps from the Albertson's to the river, and possibly no cameras right there at the river. (I can't tell.) But I noticed something yesterday ...That's the Snake River, and downriver a ways, before Almota, is the Lower Granite Dam Fish Ladder.

I don't know exactly how fish ladders work on a river, but that might be a good place to look for a knife? JMO.

Judge’s order revives movement to remove Snake River dams | HeraldNet.com

By Nicholas K. Geranios, Associated Press

www.heraldnet.com

I hope it's okay to show the Lower Granite Dam Fish Ladder in this manner... that was the only way I could figure out how to do it. If that was wrong, I apologize . LE has probably already figured out to look there anyway.

 

[esayer]

What’s the deal with Colorado? The PCA says he was pinged there. But also, before the arrest, when there was some talk about the car in Colorado, didn’t LE come out and say something like, “that owner is not involved“ ? Was that another deception, or did media misreport that? Colorado is way off course from Idaho to PA.

My theory is they stayed at a relative's on the way to PA.

 

[SuziQ]

I believe that KG’s dad spoke about the unconscious person here

That's not the same incident. Hours and hours apart from when DM saw BK in the house.

 

[Zella]

I thought Maddie was the smallest
but i admit the thud would only be if someone was thrown against the wall or if Ethan fell to the floor. The affidavit never says where Ethan’s body was found, right? I can’t remember. Maybe his body fell off the bed and that’s the thud??

Maddie looked like one of the taller roommates to me. MOO

 

[Sassafrass]

I do not think it contains an assumption myself, given the evidence posed.

It's not an assumption nor a conclusion; it's a recitation if what the witness said.

"D.M. stated she looked out of her bedroom but did not see anything when she heard the comment about someone being in the house."

I believe (though it's a somewhat poorly written sentence, as it is constructed fairly casually, causing the ambiguity I think you're perceiving) that this is intended to mean the witness referred to the comment as being about someone in the house, not that the affiant is impliedly offering that opinion. In other words, everything after "stated" is what she said, not the affiant adding info. That's what it should mean, at any rate.

 

[Cedars]

They could be surmised through blood mixtures

Yes - IMO when the victims bodies haven't been moved, forensic experts seem to be able to reconstrust the events, but IMO those details weren't relevant to the affidavit.

Only one shoe print is identified in the PCA - but IMO that's because it was the most clear and complete, and so was sent out sent for analysis, but I expect there must have been other partial prints leading from Xana's room straight through the kitchen and sliding door, which is why the PCA seems suggest that sequence of events.

JMO

 

[justwannahelp]

Google maps says it's open. Was it shut down for break? I bet students are starting to come back now.

I agree that he could have gone there without staff recognizing/remembering him. If he went only when X or M was working (due to some fixation), then the rest of staff might not even have interacted with him much. At any rate, many businesses tell employees to remain silent about recognizing patrons as criminals. And of course they would have a clean pan to cook vegan felafel in, it's an ordinary thing to ask in a college town restaurant. Chopped vegetables, falafel prepared in its own little pan, most vegans are willing to compromise as long as the pan itself was clean of meat products. Some restaurants have green-handled pans just for this purpose.

I can also imagine that he found the human contact that some restaurants provide to be a comforting thing, in his lonely life.

OTOH, I am not married to this theory - LE would know quite a bit about whether he'd ever been near that part of town. It's possible he just saw the neighborhood, observed at parties, and noticed them and the "fishbowl" house.

There was a statement put out by Mad Greek either yesterday or the day before that they remained closed because they were mourning the tragic loss of Maddie, the social media face of and long time waitress of Mad Greek as well as Xana, a long time waitress of Mad Greek. I’ll try to find link.

“Some restaurants have green-handled pans just for this purpose.”

I did not know that

Agreed that restaurants/waitresses and bartenders would have been good company for him. (“Required” to be nice as long as he wasn’t threatening them

Honestly, i would be nice to someone like him. I give everyone a chance no matter what and if i was a bartender I’d just be like ok this guy is just drunk time to go home bryan when he flipped out when a woman didn’t reply the way he wanted. Now once it became a pattern I’d realize there was a problem. I think the bar owner did the right thing. I’d first blame the alcohol but then realize ok there’s something not right here. He might not have been getting drunk at Mad Greek (not a bar) so may have been behaving more normally

 

[RockyMtnWay_406]

Does anyone have thoughts as to what BK and his dad were doing in Loma Colorado? According to the PCA his car was captured on a license plate reader on Dec 13. I believe that’s nearly 12 hours out of the way for the return to PA. Seems like a lengthy detour to drop in on a cousin or something else like that. I have no theories myself but I’m interested in what you all think.

There's 2 routes when you're headed far east from that location - 1 North & 1 south. Very common for people you take southern route during winter months.

 

[blackbeary]

The judge scheduled a court date for January 12, at 10am. Can anyone tell me what will happen in court on this day, and will the camera, or live stream be allowed?

 

[SuziQ]

Except per his narrative he saw Xana first and then Ethan. And even the initial reports for 911 talk about how the bodies found on the second floor were seen first and then they discovered the bodies upstairs. I don't see how any of the detectives saw M or K first to justify listing them first. MOO

They would know the order through forensics. Imo.

 

[gizmobtj]

Yes - IMO when the victims bodies haven't been moved, forensic experts seem to be able to reconstrust the events, but IMO those details weren't relevant to the affidavit.

Only one shoe print is identified in the PCA - but IMO that's because it was the most clear and complete, and so was sent out sent for analysis, but I expect there must have been other partial prints leading from Xana's room straight through the kitchen and sliding door, which is why the PCA seems suggest that sequence of events.

JMO

And also because it supported DM's story. There might be many more

 

[CrownCowboy1]

Most people after using a knife don’t have it covered with the blood of victims they need to keep from touching anything and everything on themselves.
To me that was a mistake, he could have put it back into the sheath and tossed them both together.
Instead he walked around with a 12 inch knife in his hand in the dark through the house, outside to his car, and where did it go when he was driving?

Seems a bit silly- did he lay that bloody knife on the passenger’s seat, put it under the driver’s seat?

JMO

That's the million dollar question so far. What did he do with the knife......

It's hard to try and put yourself in his position regarding trying to figure out how to go about a knife considering the sheath was left behind. Yeah you can make sense of it and analyze it regarding what you would do but again he is a killer. I could never fathom doing what he did.

But with that said, I agree with most here. He took it out of the sheath just before the attack. My opinion begs the question: Why even take the sheath? If you are going to do something like that considering trying to leave as little evidence behind then the sheath stays at home. That was an extremely dumb thing to do because the sheath ended up being left behind.

Again, it's tough to try and put yourself in that situation at that angle and I don't like to do it. But for the sake of argument and this forum I reckon it is what it is.

As far as the knife now is concerned. I have a feeling that LE still has no idea where it is although I admit that it's a good possibility that they do at the same time. I know that's oxymoronic but considering how tight LE has been with information, anything is possible.

 

[mainemom376]

I haven't been commenting much, but I've been reading along. So thanks everyone for all the links and great information.

I've read through the PCA several times and have formed a bit of a different idea of what happened, including motive. Many people have commented how odd it is that a seemingly regular guy would commit a mass murder like this as his first crime. I agree. Not because I think he is a serial killer of some kind, but because it's possible his intent was not murder at all.

I'm coming to believe the intent was forcible rape and the intended target was M. I believe he knew where M's room was from prior surveillance. I believe he removed the knife from the sheath, which was looped on his belt and entered through the slider in the kitchen and went directly to M's room, finding her asleep. I believe he unbuckled his belt in preparation for a sexual attack at which time three things happened - (1) M awoke and fought back, (2) the sheath slipped off his undone belt, and (3) K heard the commotion and entered the room. At that point, he killed both of them.

I think his intent was to quickly exit the house the way he came, out the kitchen slider. Coming down the stairs he heard X moving around and saying "someone is here". Now he has a problem. Does he leave or does he dispatch a witness who may call 911 in the next few minutes? I believe he decided to kill X, not knowing E was there. I think he saw X as he rounded the corner and attacked her near the doorway or just inside the doorway of her room. Then he saw E and turned his attention to him as the bigger threat. I think X was still alive, injured, and crying. When he finishes with E he turns back to X telling her he will help her, but he finishes killing her instead.

Then he walks back down the hall, passing DM's room, and exits the way he came in through the kitchen slider. He showed no interest in DM's room or the two bedrooms on the first floor. I believe his focus was entirely on M's room on the third floor, he chose the most efficient route to get there, and did not expect K to be on the third floor at all. I think he thought he could rape (not kill) M on the third floor and then slip away.

I think that's why this crime seems so sloppy. He planned to commit a rape, in a college town, which is a fairly common occurrence and does not attract national attention and 50 FBI agents. He wasn't planning a mass murder; he was planning a rape and at most a local investigation by a local detective or two.

This is all my own opinion and my general sense of the case at this time.

IMO this is the most likely scenario I have read. Great thoughts. ITA with this theory. JMO

 

[alex dvport]

That's not the same incident. Hours and hours apart from when DM saw BK in the house.

I don’t think you meant to quote me. I was commenting on the op’s statement about the unconscious person and 911

 

[kittythehare]

I do wonder about the thud but wonder if it might have been a physical attack on EC if he got out of bed to help XK. The autopsy confirmed EC was stabbed but possibly another method was used - strangulation, which is why it wasn’t first noted that he died from stab wounds? I can’t imagine BK wasn’t experiencing a rush of adrenaline but also deep in the craziness that must come with being so violent. What if he decided to try out another method or he dropped the knife in the struggle.

A thud has different meanings for everyone, it seems.
To me a thud sounds like a piece of heavy furniture falling over if internal and outside could be the sound of something heavy falling or landing...
but here we are..

 

[AngTxGal]

What about knife not coming out easily or fast enough for him, sheath material new and stiff and he just decided to take it off and start killing rather than fumble or struggle with it? Is that a possible?

Are there any other circumstances which might have made it difficult to extract the knife?

A sheath made for a knife fits it perfectly, there is no resistance either way.
Those with a fixed blade and a guard kind snap in place, and then there is a strap that goes around the handle with a snap. Once the snap is undone- just pull it out.

I think the challenge is the length, and location, not just the sheath.
Imagine a 12 inch knife on your belt on your left side, and pulling it out using your right hand. It comes straight up into your arm pit, you have to turn it and move it forward without hitting anything with your arm. You have to have a lot of space.
That is why some are saying horizontal on the belt, but 12 inches is too long IMO for moving it any direction easily.

JMO

 

[SuziQ]

Nothing suggests he saw her and killing four people in 15 minutes would be exhausting. He's not a robot

I don't think he saw her either. That was my point. If he did, she would be dead. Imo.

 

[marloweclover]

BUT i think Xana was still alive and wounded. He stopped “early” with her when he noticed Ethan in the bed. Then he goes back to crying Xana abd says don’t worry I’ll help you and uses the knife until she’s dead. He may have lifted her off the floor and said don’t worry I’ll help you to her face and she whimpered and then he threw her against the wall (the thud) then the final stabs and or slashes. Her room was pretty small so her body could have hit the wall and still been found lying where it was.

Agree, more or less. IMO the thud, the comments about a struggle in that room, and the defensive wounds on X -- I'm thinking BK encountered X bending over E, maybe crouched on the floor next to him trying to figure out what happened. He bent down to pretend concern, said the bit about helping. Then he attacked her. But that's different, in position and leverage and access to vital organs, from standing over prone sleepers and stabbing straight down as I think he had been able to do with M, K, and E. X may have been able to scramble or stagger backward. At that point, she may have been pushed or thrown against the wall as he tried to subdue her. The fatal injuries would then be inflicted with her against the wall, which would tie in with the exterior leakage, if that turns out to be real.

 

[thoughts101]

A thud has different meanings for everyone, it seems.
To me a thud sounds like a piece of heavy furniture falling over if internal and outside could be the sound of something heavy falling or landing...
but here we are..

Indeed. I think we would need to wait to hear about the crime scene and the injuries sustained by E/X, as well as hearing the CCTV recording itself, to make a good assessment of what that word means in this context.

 

[10ofRods]

I don’t recall if it was the wait staff or management that said he wasn’t recognized….I’ve read it more than once but don’t have a link handy.

I don't want to give that reporter any more hits (I find her reporting to be weak at best, but realize she's likely a small town cub reporter), but IIRC, she talked to one person at Mad Greek and I remember that person as a server, not a manager. But I'll keep my eyes pealed - someone will repost it eventually,,

Could have been a manager. In either case, it was hardly a deep dive into the clientele of Mad Greek by an investigative reporter. We'll learn more from LE at the prelim (if they don't mention it then, it's probably not very relevant).