ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 57

[Diogenetic]

Can anyone enlighten me about a few questions I have about the DNA source? Can the defense lawyer dismiss the evidence if there's no other sample to be tested by the defense team?

And - a biology question actually - all our characteristics as human are encoded on a DNA string right? So can you draw a picture of the murdered based of the genes found on that DNA? Like ethnicity, sex, hair color, eyes color, and more?

Some definitively, many not at all. Some more we may get exactly in future with further understanding of entire genome. And of course some can be affected by environment -- starting in utero and including epigenetic, nutritional, stresses, etc.

In fact jaw size, which we would assume to be kind of basic and entirely genetic, we know is impacted by eating habits and our hunter gatherer ancestors had larger jaws, fully or partially based on chewing more often (which is why modern people have wisdom teeth issues that our virtually genetically identical Paleolithic ancestors did not have).

As far as the DNA the state has the crime scene source. The matches to that woudl have progressed this way;
1) Investigators first used DNA and non DNA ancestry databases and were able to develop a suspect.
2) I believe they then they got a second DNA sample from Pennsylvania garbage. this almost certainly would be Kohberer and extremely close nuclear family males, excluding other males in the US (except his father to something like one in 10 or 100 million or on that order.) They probably used that to get extradition and warrants for house, car and Kohbergers person (including a cheek swab)
3) the cheek swab would probably exclude his father, and also serve to remove some of the attack the defense might make on the other DNA sources.

So the only weak point will be the DNA on the knife sheeth, and that may not be weak at all.

 

[NuttMegg]

Why would that be important?

That's the question. It was mentioned where the other 3 were found. I thought it was kind of a glaring omission.

 

[layer]

The affidavit does not suggest she knew when DoorDash was there but I bet DoorDash knows when DoorDash was there....

This is with the exception of Kernodle, who received a DoorDash order at the residence at approximately 4:00 a.m.

 

[TL4S]

I think BK could have potentially been in the house from approx. 4:07 to 4:17. That's 10 minutes. It doesn't sound like much, but honestly, consider what all you can do in 10 minutes. With walking in, up and down the stairs, and walking out, that leaves maybe 2 minutes per victim, basically. Sit for 2 minutes and you'll see it's actually a lot of time. I wonder how long it truly took him from the time he stepped inside to the time he stepped out.

 

[NLM1234]

Here’s a house layout of all the rooms that may help visualize. You can move the images around with your finger if on a mobile device.

Virtual Tour of 1122 King Road, Moscow, Idaho

Thank you for this link. Whomever created this, was talented and put a lot of thought and effort into it. Very helpful

 

[wary]

No way can I keep up!

Have you guys talked about what LE's strategy could be in keeping details about the placement of E's body redacted, or secret?

I believe that the notorious ‘redacted page’ was merely a mistake in the photocopy process.

 

[gtg427s]

I believe that the notorious ‘redacted page’ was merely a mistake in the photocopy process.

This is apparently exactly what happened

https://twitter.com/x/status/1611838678011375617

 

[gizmobtj]

It appears that I am not the only one puzzled on why there was an 8 hour delay in calling the police:

Exclusive | Cops ‘puzzled’ by 8-hour window before Idaho murder victims’ roommates called 911

Dylan Mortensen opened her bedroom door on Nov. 13 to see the person who had just brutally murdered her three roommates and one’s boyfriend.

nypost.com

Let me solve this complex puzzle for the New York Post and their so-called "cops." You spend a night out, get in between 1 a.m. and 2 a.m., keep getting woken up after 4 a.m., you see a weird dude in your house and, then, you go back to sleep. You sleep until Noon. Let's see ... that's 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 hours of sleep. How much are humans supposed to sleep again on average? 8 right? Wala!!!!

Ok. Seriously, despite my cheekiness on this point, in my very very humble opinion, there is nothing to see here other than a Tabloid newspaper doing what Tabloid newspapers do

 

[Mad Hettie]

It appears that I am not the only one puzzled on why there was an 8 hour delay in calling the police:

Exclusive | Cops ‘puzzled’ by 8-hour window before Idaho murder victims’ roommates called 911

Dylan Mortensen opened her bedroom door on Nov. 13 to see the person who had just brutally murdered her three roommates and one’s boyfriend.

nypost.com

I understand everyone's confusion. I really do - because you're looking at this from the perspective of a normal event that happens any day of the year. But this is such a crazy unusual event that WE are taking time from OUR lives to be online discussing it months later. So, can you imagine what it must have been like to be in the midst of it? Wild, and her brain protected her.
Police officers don't have, and haven't had, the proper training to understand the way incredibly fear inducing events affect trauma survivors, as evidenced by this research article:

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0011128719845148

 

[Nila Aella]

True of course according to the evidence in the PCA, but the earliest possible time in principle is therefore 4:04am. This is why the state (or crown in England) who prosecutes a criminal offence uses a broader period of time than the evidence itself. For example, the investigators in the PCA are alleging that the offences were committed between 4:00am and 4:25am, as this is the longest possible time in principle (see page 5) despite the 3 point turn at 4:04am and the last seen images on CCTV at 4:20am. It is good practice, in a legal context.

If he is outside making his three point turn, he still has to park and get to the house. Your original post said KG and MM first (4:04 - 4:12) see below. He could not, in my opinion be upstairs and with KG and MM at 4:04. MOO

thoughts101 said:
IMO, she may not have seen him enter since, as others have pointed out, if she was sat on the sofa she would not have had a clear view of the kitchen/point of entry. She was also on her phone so watching videos and distracted.

I believe that the PCA is unequivocal on the order of the murders - KG and MM were first (between 4:04 and 4:12), XK and EC were second (between 4:12 and until he exits shortly after 4:17, and before 4:20).

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23564673/122922-affidavit-exhibit-a-statement-of-brett-payne_redacted.pdf

 

[Boxer]

And how much DNA has been found since the arrest? After apartment and vehicle searches? If any of the victims' DNA shows up anywhere associated with the defendant, this looks like a very strong case for the government....IMO

MOO A strong case for the people.

 

[Ms. Fletcher]

Could BK have been signed up to be a DD delivery person and saw the order to 1122 King Rd? If he was stalking the house or any of the victims that would make sesense.

Snipped for focus.

If he had done this, he would not have seen the exact address unless he accepted the DD order himself. And LE would have been aware pretty quickly if he had accepted and then dropped the order.

MOO

 

[Muddy K]

One thing I noticed in the PCA.....the detective was comfortable describing the injuries he viewed on X as 'from an edged weapon', on M & K he described 'visible stab wounds'. However, when he describes E he states 'wounds later determined to be sharp-force injuries' and refers to the autopsy findings.

I believe there was something different there than the others.

It may have been that EC was knifed through the bed covers and therefore no stab wounds were directly visible. JMO.

 

[Diogenetic]

The PCA describes him wearing a mask that covers his mouth and nose—I don’t know what he was wearing, but that’s a precise description of the standard Covid mask that people have been wearing for the last 2.75 years. It lets you see the eyebrows, too.

Yes, I am perplexed how image of hood or balaclava are coming up.

 

[bunkhead]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

I can't help but wonder if first responders had been called right away, could one or more of the victims been saved from death? I don't know the answer but can't stop thinking it. IMO

At that point we're just asking what if. What if the door was locked and BK couldn't get in? It just doesn't serve any purpose. Victim blaming seems super icky.

 

[layer]

A couple of notes about sequence of crimes:

I've become quite convinced that the criminal complaint is listed in the order in which the crimes were committed, this is how another Idaho cases listed muliple murders that were farther apart in time. From first crime committed, to last crime committed
1. Burglary
2. Murder of MM
3. Murder of KG
4. Murder of XK
5. Murder of EC

Secondly, the PCA lays out the facts in the following exact sequence (removing extraneous detail):

"approximately 4:00 am" DM awakens because of hearing noise that sounded like it came from upstairs.

"a short time later" opens door, after hearing 'there's someone here' - sees nothing

4:12 Last moment Xana was on Tiktok

DM "opens door a second time" after hearing crying that sounded like it was coming from Xana's room. Possibly while door was open heard "It's okay, I'm here to take care of you".

4:17 Noises recorded on next door camera. PCA notes that this camera is 50 ft from Xana's room (no other measurements are stated)

DM "opens door for third time" and sees man coming towards her and towards the sliding door in the kitchen.

Investigators believe suspect left the scene.

JMO, if you know the layout of the house, this is a narrative indicating that MM and KG were killed upstairs first, then Xana and Ethan were killed and the suspect left from their room.

JMO

I disagree. There is no way to know from the PCA which order they were murdered. Arguments could reasonably be made either way, and I remain mystified as to why it matters.

 

[kittythehare]

This is with the exception of Kernodle, who received a DoorDash order at the residence at approximately 4:00 a.m.

Was a reply to OP who misunderstood Affidavit to be that it was DM that had reported a food delivery.

 

[gizmobtj]

I think BK could have potentially been in the house from approx. 4:07 to 4:17. That's 10 minutes. It doesn't sound like much, but honestly, consider what all you can do in 10 minutes. With walking in, up and down the stairs, and walking out, that leaves maybe 2 minutes per victim, basically. Sit for 2 minutes and you'll see it's actually a lot of time. I wonder how long it truly took him from the time he stepped inside to the time he stepped out.

Yup. Totally agree. Seems short when thinking about a human life but a lot can happen in 10 minutes. I mean, in 10 minutes, I can respond to at least 5 luxurious acquisitions against DM! Jk, 4

 

[NuttMegg]

The word target is completely absent from the PCA. Not just the word but any hint that anyone specific was targeted. Yet people remain fixated on it.

But I understand that, layer. To my mind, some rejection occurred, or obsession was triggered right before the 12 "surveillance" trips started. Yes, someone pointed out there could have been more than 12. It just seems logical that this was being planned by BK since some specific event, meeting, rejection, occurred before the trips started. Somehow he knew where she or they, lived.

 

[layer]

Was a reply to OP who misunderstood Affidavit to be that it was DM that had reported a food delivery.

Gotcha!