ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 57

[10ofRods]

I think there is a problem with the timeline, car observed at 1604 hrs, trying to park or do 3 point turn, then bailing and driving down to the intersection and making a 3 point turn then disappearing. Then car fleeing at high rate of speed at 1620 hrs, that's 16 minutes and doesn't count ingress or egress.

I think he was there at 0404 (in the wee hours of the morning) when he was cruising around just prior, and then executes the three point turn.

It is a very brief time indeed - and in fact, to me is so far the most surprising fact we've learned from the PCA. Who would have thought that?

Which is why I believe he went in to kill, used his boxing skills combined with big knife "skill" and rapidly bore down upon his targets. I believe he thought speedy skilling would reduce his own overall risk, as an apparent proponent of Rational Criminal Theory or whatever that's called in criminology (this is from some source posted yesterday, a student or professor mentioned it but I can't find the link so IMO he liked that theory).

Rational Choice Theory is what it's called (at least I bookmarked the proper name). The idea that explaining a crime is best done by considering that criminals are capable of reasoning and rational action, within the framework of their own goals.

I think this particular person would have a hard time actually going back into the house (which he wanted to do, IMO, when he realized the sheath was missing) in broad daylight. He would have had a hard time facing up to his bloody crimes in the light of day.

This man hoped for a relatively "clean" experience for himself and planned his murders (including where he placed the stab wounds) with that in mind and I believe we may hear more about that at the prelim or whenever the autopsies are eventually discussed. Things went to plan on the third floor, more or less, but because Xana was still up and about on the second floor, he may have been flustered. He may even have injured himself, as Xana was not in bed and his method (probably kneeling on the victim's legs or similar in order to immobilize them) was thwarted. She did not bleed out on the mattress as he had planned, there was blood all over the floor and he stepped in it.

So the latent print(s) and the visible prints, as well as the sheath were all things he did not plan to leave behind. I wonder if any DNA would have been found if not for the knife sheath. Fibers, maybe, but I bet he's disposed of every item he wore that night, along with the knife - probably that very night. LE may have some idea of how many times he stopped (some of his stops seem to be documented in the PCA).

 

[Gardenista]

Can you post a link? The original time line is that the murders were committed between 3 AM - 4 AM.

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/122922%20Affidavit%20-%20Exhibit%20A%20-%20Statement%20of%20Brett-Payne.pdf

 

[kittythehare]

I own the same Ka-Bar sheath and there's no way it would fall off if attached to a belt. It's nearly 1/8" thick leather that's looped, stitched and metal riveted together. JMO.

What weight is it Ranch? Any chance of a photo?
I've seen pics but I don't have a tangible 'feel' of the thing.
Also where would such a knife be stored typically .. It wouldn't require locking, I imagine, like a gun.
I'm asking in an attempt to figure whether any of his friends would have been likely to see it while visiting him?
He could, of course bought it recently in which case my q is moot.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Thank you CSIDreamer!

1. I do not necessarily agree with this one.

The PCA on the bottom of page 1 states:
As I approached the room, I could see a body, later identified as Kemodle's, laying on the floor.
[...]
Also in the room was a male, later identified as Ethan Chapin [...]

This sounds as though the body can be seen on approach to the room. In this context, "also" could mean "in addition to this" or "following on from this", as opposed to only meaning "also" as in "as well as".

I do not believe it is 100% that X was in the bedroom on this basis.

2. True. Perhaps he didn't mind if she did, as his intention was to leave some witnesses alive.

I've had to skip numerous posts myself over the past few days so you may not know the whole bedroom or not was discussed extensively last night. So, I'm not going to go there past what I said.

 

[rathay]

IIrc, LE said Murphy was found in an unoccupied bedroom and had not appeared to have contaminated the crime scene. IOW, I think he was locked in K's room, either by K herself, or BK, and remained there until LE let him out.

I have a lot of varying thoughts regarding this, but the sounds like K playing with her dog could have been: a) K with her dog, b) the dog by itself, c) BK walking in on the dog looking for K, or d) BK shoving the dog into the room and locking it in.

JMO

Is it possible that the dog had free rein of the top two floors (or even the whole house for that matter) and the playing with the dog was actually X putting it away in K's room before Door Dash so that the dog wouldn't bark when the food was delivered?

 

[gizmobtj]

Can you expand on that? I'm not following.

Sure. We know from the PCA that Xana is up at 4 when she gets Door Dash and her phone tells us she is on TikTok. The first strange thing that is heard is something that sounds like someone is playing with KG's dog on the third floor. We also know that the killer is seen by the roommate as he is leaving and she seems him from peaking out her door. We have seen pictures of that door and which way it opens, where the stairwell to the 3rd floor is where Xana's room is. So, we also know the killer is likely leaving from the direction of Xana's bathroom and not the 3rd floor.

So, if the killer walked by three living people, one of whom was awake, on the second floor to start on the third floor that's an inkling, in my opinion, that the primary or first target was on the third floor.

An aside that goes beyond my point:

The fact that the first weird noise was heard in KG's room could also provide an inkling, although you'd then have to believe the killer knew that was KG's room. While it could have just been the first room the killer went to, I would imagine given all the social media posts by people in the house, the floor plan listing and real estate ad pictures available, one could have easily figured out without having been in the house where everyone's room was.

And, trust me, if I were planning to come at someone on their own turf, I would definitely take the virtual tour that the real estate agency and social media offered me

 

[ray9898]

I think there is a problem with the timeline, car observed at 1604 hrs, trying to park or do 3 point turn, then bailing and driving down to the intersection and making a 3 point turn then disappearing. Then car fleeing at high rate of speed at 1620 hrs, that's 16 minutes and doesn't count ingress or egress.

Why? Someone can be killed in seconds with such a substantial weapon.

 

[Dialectic]

One thing that sort of freaked me out, reading the Probable Cause-when they're tracking the car(towards the end of the document.) was when then mentioned a coffee shop in Clarkston, Washington State. Yesterday, I read police there had reopened an unsolved 1990 knife murder of an 18 yr. old girl, killed while sleeping on her couch. BK would only have been 18 himself in 1990, so it couldn't have been him, or could it?

If BK was 18 in 1990, he would be 50 now.

BK wasn't even alive in 1990.

 

[want2solveit]

Good point, and a scenario I thought about as well. But in my theory of the crime I believe BK would have fled when he unexpectedly found a second girl in bed with his intended target and aborted the entire plan. Again, this is just my general sense of how and why this crime played out the way it did. My opinions only.

One of my touchstones for thinking about attacks like this one is Dave Cullen's book Columbine, where he talks about "spectacle murder" in relation to this sort of school massacre where there is no apparent motive other than notoriety and name recognition. Cullen writes this in the Epilogue to the latest edition:

There are all sorts of killers who might have inspired a middle of the night murder spree; Richard Speck, the killer of 8 student nurses in a Chicago apartment in 1966 comes to mind. But one thing Cullen points out is that reaching for fame might involve in some way outdoing murderous predecessors. The Columbine killers really planned a bombing, intended to out=do Timothy McVeigh in terms of body count. The other way to gain notoriety is by choosing victims that shock the rest of us--kindergarten kids, whole families, etc. In this case, he choose young, attractive college kids in a small college town. He got his shock value. I hope he's left a trove of writings (as the killer quoted above did, as Eric Harris did before Columbine) so we can get a glimpse into his demented thought processes. My guess is that he's just another spectacle murderer, no big mastermind. Just a failure who used the lives and deaths of others to catch the limelight. My opinion only, of course.

I think you're right because, so far, this man seems to have had no personal/social existence: no social media accounts, old prom pics, girlfriends shown with him in warm embraces on an instagram acct. No one has come forward to say anything kind or nice about him. He's a total nothing with only his parents and his criminal justice studies to recommend him.

 

[The Scarecrow]

One thing that sort of freaked me out, reading the Probable Cause-when they're tracking the car(towards the end of the document.) was when then mentioned a coffee shop in Clarkston, Washington State. Yesterday, I read police there had reopened an unsolved 1990 knife murder of an 18 yr. old girl, killed while sleeping on her couch. BK would only have been 18 himself in 1990, so it couldn't have been him, or could it?

How did you come to the conclusion that BK is 46 years old? Whoops, I guess the same way I concluded 46, I can't add.

 

[LetsSolvIt]

Long time reader on WS about this case but my first post. If (according to the PCA), they had BK's name by November 29, why didn't they get his DNA from his own garbage? Why use his parents garbage in late December?

Source: Idaho PCA

Welcome @NicoleInVa. Glad you are here

 

[ninvestigate]

Blood of the victims in his car

Stalking evidence on his computer

MOO

Dying to see what was on that phone, personally. He had it with him an awful lot. At the expense of his own discretion.

 

[AuntTricia]

It all came to a head. I agree, if finally after studying how to plan and carry out the perfect murder, he may have realized that he was never going to complete the PhD program and enter the real world where he had to really make it on his own. So the plan began to form in his mind possibly with no thought to getting caught or the punishment that would follow or maybe didn't care if he got caught and was in prison the rest of his life. JMO.

MOO

Same spec that I've been considering. <modsnip> Women were repelled by him, so he would never have a family of his own. Not a single friend. Perhaps his advisor at college was beginning to not want him around. I really believe that he knew he would never finish the Phd.

Many people in that situation would fall into depression, maybe become suicidal if they could not adapt and change pathways.

He went totally over to the dark side. Evil. Some people will continue to pick apart his psychological profile but this is not a case of sanity, this is evilness. There is a difference. MOO

 

[agilbe]

IMO, it was BK. In the PCA, DM noted she heard a "male voice." IMO, she would recognize E's voice and would have noted this, as she did K's, "she heard who she thought was Goncalves say something to the effect of, "there's someone here."

Which would make sense. Previous residents of the house said it was possible to hear every little movement and in the house. Not too mention I can't imagine the Door Dash person would have had any reason to go in the house.

 

[Boxer]

My guess was always that this took under 10 minutes, so seems reasonable to me

Agree. It’s an ambush not a confrontation.

 

[ninvestigate]

This all makes sense regarding the initial desire to rape as opposed to murder, although i do think murder was also a part of his agenda if necessary..
The large trusty knife on his person however, does not let him down and serves as an impressive substitute for whatever fails him.. speculation, imo.

There’s a lot of media and movies that depict rapes where a woman is held a knifepoint, lots of opportunity for inspiration there IMO

 

[Not a Belle]

Blood of the victims in his car

Stalking evidence on his computer

MOO

I so hope you’re right.

 

[QB2022]

IIrc, LE said Murphy was found in an unoccupied bedroom and had not appeared to have contaminated the crime scene. IOW, I think he was locked in K's room, either by K herself, or BK, and remained there until LE let him out.

I have a lot of varying thoughts regarding this, but the sounds like K playing with her dog could have been: a) K with her dog, b) the dog by itself, c) BK walking in on the dog looking for K, or d) BK shoving the dog into the room and locking it in.

JMO

He may have played with the dog to settle him down? With such a busy house I imagine being acknowledged probably quietened the dog down

 

[KMouse]

I wonder if he dumped it during his very quick trip to Albertsons.

FBI watched Idaho 'killer' take out the trash wearing surgical gloves

The officers were tasked with tracking Kohberger so they could arrest him as soon as a warrant was issued as well as trying to get hold of a DNA sample.

www.dailymail.co.uk

That's my first thought. He went for a drive in the morning, drove by the house to see if there was any police activity yet. Went near the river to dump evidence. I wonder if he just disposed of the knife or what he did with his clothes and shoes. Did he buy new Vans/shoes around the same time to replace his murder shoes? I would like to see his purchases from at least August 2022 forward.

 

[smileyface516]

Long time reader, first time posting now. This may have already been discussed, dissected and dismissed, but is there any chance BK did food delivery like DoorDash/GrubHub as a side gig, and maybe he encountered M and/or X at the Mad Greek that way (picking up stuff as the delivery guy rather than being an actual customer getting his own food there)? Or putting the Mad Greek aside entirely, maybe he delivered food to that house in the past and initially encountered one or more of the girls that way?