ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 58

[Erutan]

IMO It's irresponsible & unfair to pick apart literally everything a person says or does because they are accused of a crime.
The defendent has a right to defend themselves.
Why not allow the entire process and full story to be told?
In this particular case the defense is saying they look forward to telling their side. It's at the point where they do, when people can make an informative decision on guilt or innocence.
The process is the same whether it's someone accused of speeding or accused of murder.

Respectfully disagree about that.
The accused will have days, if not weeks or even months to 'tell their side'.
They already have that right to defend themselves, as a public defender has been appointed for BK and will in the coming days --if not already-- meet BK to devise their stratagem.
There's little doubt imo, that in a crime of this magnitude, that the defense will work vigorously to protect their client.

My only regret is that on that terrible night/morning hours the viciously murdered students had no protection at all.


It helps to look at BK's past actions and words as I do not for one moment think this is the only crime he's committed.
Stalking (peeping tom activities) sounds like something the perp may have done before he killed people ?
Who knows what else ?
It appears that he's evaded justice until now.
Imo.

 

[Cindizzi]

I can't find a MSM article that mentions a coworker doing heroin with him. Some classmates say he told them that he had a heroin addiction.

[…]

Pasqua told Fox News host Lawrence Jones on Saturday's "Cross Country" that Kohberger was just your "average guy."

"I met him through some friends and they told me that he was a little weird and he was a little socially awkward, I guess you could say, but he wasn't a bad guy," Pasqua said. "He needed a job, so I worked at a pizza shop at that time and they were hiring and I said, ‘Yeah, come on in and apply.’ And he did, and he got the job. So I worked with him for a little bit, but he was quiet, though."

[…]

Pasqua claimed Kohberger used drugs and that they were both heroin addicts.

"I got six years clean now," Pasqua said. "I work in treatment and everything, but back then I was using. And so that's how I know for a fact he was using. I've got high with him a couple of times and used with him."

Pasqua said he knew other people who dealt drugs and would deliver drugs to Kohberger frequently.

[…]

Idaho murders: Bryan Kohberger's former friend speaks out on social behavior, alleged drug use

Rich Pasqua, who said he is a former acquaintance of Bryan Kohberger, reacted to the Idaho murders suspect's arrest on "Lawrence Jones Cross Country."

www.foxnews.com

 

[Dotta]

Narcissist?

I think a person who is oversensitive, takes everything personally and has no distance to oneself has low self-esteem.

Lack of confidence.

Or might be a perfectionist.

JMO

 

[Luna20]

You say:

"Never underestimate the ego of a killer's desire to search his own crime."

This is why arsonists are notorious for going back to watch fire fighters put out the fires they start, why some killers go to victim's grave sites and memorial services, why killers search news sites for their crimes and go on SM sites to see what everyone is saying about what they did and who they suspect. And why killers themselves will insert themselves into SM conversations.

Once they do that LE can get their IP addresses.

LE often will put cameras around all these places I mentioned to see who shows up. And LE will use a defendant's search history and postings against them at trial.

Perhaps BK went back to his crime scene between 9:00am to 9:30 am for this very reason, his ego.

He probably wondered why he wasn't hearing anything in the news yet. I'm surprised he didn't go back sooner to try to get his knife sheath back. Maybe he did but there is no record.

It’s like a cat who brings his dead prize to the door for all to see. BK is very proud of his dirty work and is on a short lived high. He will always be proud but it’s not going to feel good when he is in the throes of prison life.

 

[r3d-ros3]

If he is indeed Vegan and The Mad Greek is one of the only vegan options close by it's highly likely he's been there or ordered from there, but no evidence yet, no pings yet correct?
I'd say it's a real high chance yes, he would have checked it out at one point to eat/drink.

No evidence that we know of, but yes I would be curious about surveillance footage from the restaurant / nearby, and of course additional cell phone data.

Another poster helpfully pointed out (earlier in the thread) that Pullman actually has a number of vegan restaurants, so it wouldn't have been necessary to travel to Moscow just for vegan options.

BK mentioned the "shopping was better" in Moscow, and his aunt said he was particular about the cooking vessels for food -- it wouldn't surprise me if he made a lot of his own food. Then again -- he let the cop in Indiana know they were "going to get Thai food." Of course BK's diet isn't the most interesting thing to focus on, but food has come up a number of times in relation to the case in a compelling sort of way.

Anyway, I was pretty sure he had visited Mad Greek until I saw that current employees didn't recognize him. As you said, though, this could obviously be intentional misdirection to keep up appearances. It's also possible he only stopped by once and the people working (Maddie and / or Xana) were the only witnesses.

 

[rjfjet]

Nope he sure couldn’t

Is this on anything because I would love 2 c the like on demand

 

[Diogenetic]

My take away of the father discussing the WSU incident is that it’s very likely BK’s phone was blowing up with campus alerts during the trip in response to this campus lockdown. I agree if the father had suspicions about BK he would not of brought anything up regarding WSU Moscow etc.

it is younger kohberger who brings it up. seems to me a way to interrupt his overly chatty father who is giving actual relevant details to their travel and plans. and that accused might rationally worry is extending the stop and might continue into sparking some curiosity or memory of an elantra being involved in an indent in the northwest.

Bryan Kohberger in my opinion is giving worried looks toward has father as he chats away into dangerous territory and intentionally diverts conversaton

 

[jumpingjackflash]

I think a person who is oversensitive, takes everything personally and has no distance to oneself has low self-esteem.

Lack of confidence.

Or might be a perfectionist.

JMO

Narcissism and insecurity/self-esteem issues usually occur together -- the narcissistic ego is actually a front for low self-esteem. This article says it well: "Narcissism is not self-love; it is self-loathing in disguise."

Narcissism through the lens of performative self-elevation

Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) is conceptualized as excessive self-love and divided into subtypes known as grandiose and vulnerable narcissis…

www.sciencedirect.com

 

[Diogenetic]

No evidence that we know of, but yes I would be curious about surveillance footage from the restaurant / nearby, and of course additional cell phone data.

Another poster helpfully pointed out (earlier in the thread) that Pullman actually has a number of vegan restaurants, so it wouldn't have been necessary to travel to Moscow just for vegan options.

BK mentioned the "shopping was better" in Moscow, and his aunt said he was particular about the cooking vessels for food -- it wouldn't surprise me if he made a lot of his own food. Then again -- he let the cop in Indiana know they were "going to get Thai food." Of course BK's diet isn't the most interesting thing to focus on, but food has come up a number of times in relation to the case in a compelling sort of way.

Anyway, I was pretty sure he had visited Mad Greek until I saw that current employees didn't recognize him. As you said, though, this could obviously be intentional misdirection to keep up appearances. It's also possible he only stopped by once and the people working (Maddie and / or Xana) were the only witnesses.

I think he was in area starting in June or July. He could have met one of those young women there very early on and fixated on a desire, a slight or rejection, who knows. it absolutely is one of the restaurants in the area known for vegan dishes,
Even if August, that is months before the killings and the statements from mad greek are more or less they did not note him. The managers may simply have not known, and the only ones aware of any contact at that restaurant maybe the two deceased victims. most surveillance video is kept a few weeks or less.

 

[ray9898]

I assume they would have needed a warrant to get BK's voice on tape.

Nah....his conversation in a traffic stop is fair game. They already had it anyway, there was bodycam of his stops in Moscow.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

We know from the PC that BK drove by the house several times before the murders that morning, so he knew how many vehicles were in the parking area. If we're going with the stalking angle, and that he'd scoped it out over months, there's a good chance he knew who owned which vehicle. I think he knew there were more than 4 people in that house, and I don't think E being there was any surprise. Maybe BK wasn't sure about K, since she had a new vehicle, IDK. JMO.

My personal thought today is that he wasn't stalking any one specific person, but that he wanted an over-the-top, newsworthy crime that would get national coverage, just like it has. So he chooses a house filled with popular sorority girls and a frat boy, whose lives are plastered all over SM, so perfect and beautiful. Multiple stabbings in one party house, right by campus, behind Greek row, with no obvious cameras nearby (he was wrong). I think he thought it would never get solved and he could spend the rest of his career "studying" the Idaho murders case, maybe becoming an expert on it.

Probably a stupid theory, but it's where I'm at today. I just cannot buy that he was after one or two and taken off-guard by the others...

I don’t think this is stupid at all. You are correct that it appears he was stalking/gathering info, he knew who lived there. A grandiose crime for a grandiose mind. MOO

 

[Cedars]

strange mo for the killings. He claimed sexual violence and sexual dysfunction in the male. I wish I had taken screenshots. Could be a guess on the PR's part.

Actually, I think that right there shows it wasn't BK. IMO, if he'd been that rational and able to have insight about his problems, he'd just have gone to a psychologist, not acted them out.

 

[Cool Cats]

It's no longer entirely circumstantial.

Many cases are entirely circumstantial. This one has a bit of lift-off from the presence of DM in that doorway.

I believe as you do about the nature of the evidence. DNA is circumstantial evidence, as I understand it. I believe cameras are also considered non-circumstantial, maybe a lawyer will weigh in. So there is also camera evidence at this point (of his car in Clarkton, for example).

I agree that the evidence must be taken in its totality, but presented to the jury as strands, or it will be overwhelming. I see at least 10 different complex strands already in this case (more than in most cases, quite the net that BK is caught in).

DM definitely brings something to the case - as do the various cameras.

I find the differences between circumstantial and direct evidence interesting. I'm trying to learn more about it.

I think DM's testimony is only circumstantial evidence because she did not witness the crime. It seems like to me that camera evidence or recordings on people's phones could be direct evidence but I am not sure. I thought blood and fingerprint and DNA evidence are direct evidence but not according to this article:

Direct vs Indirect (Circumstantial) Evidence - A Legal Guide

Direct evidence directly proves a key fact at issue. Indirect evidence is a fact or set of facts that, if true, allow jurors to infer the fact at issue.

www.shouselaw.com

An example of direct evidence (in a murder case) is a witness testifying that she saw the defendant actually stab and kill the victim.
An example of indirect evidence (in the same case) is a witness testifying that she saw the defendant running from the crime scene. Here, a juror could use this fact to infer that the accused committed the crime.

Direct evidence is a piece of evidence often in the form of the testimony of witnesses or eyewitness accounts. Examples of direct evidence are when a person testifies that he/she:

Saw an accused commit a crime,
heard another person say a certain word or words, or
observed a certain act take place.

Consider, also, a case where a defendant is suspected of burglary. A conspirator to the crime signs a statement confessing that he helped the accused with the offense. This is direct proof of the defendant’s guilt.

What is indirect evidence?
Unlike direct evidence, circumstantial evidence does not directly prove a key fact. Rather, this type of evidence:

Proves another fact, and a person can then make a reasonable inference that a key fact happened.

Consider, for example, a shoplifting case in which a prosecutor believes the defendant, Joe, took a leather coat from a department store. At trial, the D.A. provides a witness that says she saw the accused at a party wearing a similar coat to the one Joe allegedly took. This is indirect evidence that Joe shoplifted the jacket.

Note that, in the above example, if the witness said she was in the store with Joe and saw him take the clothing, then this would be direct evidence and not circumstantial evidence.

Indirect evidence often includes:

physical evidence (such as bloodstains),
forensic evidence and scientific evidence, and
fingerprint evidence.

(I assume this includes DNA evidence)

 

[Gemmie]

ideas of reference? that's the term for a more pathological and disordered pattern of self attribution.

I LOVE it!!! Yes! This!!! Also never heard of it so no way was I ever going to come up with that one, no matter how hard I racked my brain about it. lol

An idea of reference—sometimes called a delusion of reference—is the false belief that irrelevant occurrences or details in the world relate directly to oneself.

 

[GRT]

Absent a restraining order though it is not a crime to follow someone, stalk someone etc. Plenty of people, I image a lot of males and even females in their 20's probably do so without harming the object of their obsession. heck one can find it in literature where the stalker is someone portrayed as a sympathetic unrequited lover, or even that the stalked person eventually falls in love with.

I am not saying it is ok in the least. and of course it is a reach, but I would think that the defense, if they decide to fight it out in court, will say that he was following one or more of them as an obsession, with no evil attached. Is it a reach? maybe, but it is their best course.

I believe that part is correct, as least inasmuch as it affects Idaho's stalking laws.

Idaho considers Stalking in the First Degree.

And, Stalking in the Second Degree.

I was unaware, but it takes quite a bit even to meet the definitions of second-degree stalking. I suppose those rules are designed to protect someone who follows a person for a short time but has no intent of harming them.

Given Idaho's law, I think (MOO) it would have been difficult to bring Brian up on stalking charges.

 

[Erutan]

No good reason. A lifetime of not belonging and/or not being accepted plus I think there has to be some sort of mental defect. If he’s put to death, I would really really hope they preserve and study his brain. It’s like he couldn’t stop himself. Adrenaline rush likely overtook him. JMO

bbm
It could very well be a combination of those factors.

 

[Boxer]

Don’t know if your question has been answered but I get text notifications when the DD driver arrives at the restaurant, leaves with the order, is approaching my house, and drops it at the door. sometimes they ring the bell and sometimes they don’t. You can also put in special instructions for delivery.

last night I actually put in the King Road address as the deliver address in my app and the Jack in the Box was the only place I could find open after midnight. It showed it closed at 2;45. I may have quit looking too soon though.

It was Saturday night.
(even though technically early Sun morning)
is there a 24’hr restaurant in Moscow Idaho or Pullman W which is probably close enough for a DD order.

 

[BeachSky]

I assume they would have needed a warrant to get BK's voice on tape.

What? It was an officer’s bodycam.

MOO

 

[GRT]

We'll, if we're "guessing", then it might have been a full on ski mask covering every single part of his face except his eyes and eye brows. Also, he may have had a hood that covered the top of his head and the rest of the ski mask. My point is we can't assume it ONLY covered his nose and mouth, because that hasn't been stated by a verified source. People read one post that says "only his nose and mouth", and then that suddenly becomes facts of the case.

Words, and the CORRECT words, matter.

When I read "...black clothing and a mask..." I assume (perhaps, wrongly) that the mask was black. If it was black, I would guess ski mask.

 

[jepop]

I assume they would have needed a warrant to get BK's voice on tape.

On Jan 6th the FBI made a public statement that they did not direct or request Indiana LE to pull over BK on Dec 15th. This has been reported by numerous MSM, of which one e.g is attached. The FBI's clear public statement is a LE source and IMO is more credible than the 'anonymous sources' (or unnamed) quoted in the article attached to your post.

FBI denies it was the agency that asked cops to pull over Idaho murder suspect Bryan Kohberger

The FBI denied asking Indiana cops to pull over Bryan Kohberger as he drove with his dad to Pennsylvania – though the agency was part of a law enforcement coalition that made the request.…

nypost.com

“The December 15th traffic stops conducted on the vehicle being driven by Bryan Kohberger in Indiana were not requested or directed by the FBI,” the agency told Fox News in a statement.