ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 59

[Jbaileetaxes]

I've thought about the use of the word thud myself. To me, it implies something had some airspace like a wall, floor, etc. I don't associate thuds, for example, with someone falling on a cement floor. JMO

I agree. It would be difficult for me to think x falling on floor would be picked up audio on house 50 feet away.

If a person were to jump off top balcony it would make a loud thud.

Wouldn’t it be a total twist (if a movie or something) if it all meant this:

Dm stated she originally went to bed in her room on second floor.
I’mp
Wouldn’t it be crazy if she had been changing rooms to ks old room and went up there? What time if she opened that door and bk was upstairs
When she opened the door up there. And he literally walked right passed her to the sliding glass door “back sliding glass door” and jumped off making a thud and the dog would have been in there, would have started barking and it would make a loud thud outside if jumping down and getting to car.

I’m just saying because sim rolm was supposedly on first floor. Maybe she had moved to second floor but I thought I heard she slept on floor so figuring no bed. K was moving out so maybe she was taking that room. Lots of possible twists

 

[Pennysmom1]

I agree. But see, I didn't grow up with that, and I have empathy for YOU, and what you had to go through being bullied. Lots of criminals grow up in horrific and abusive and neglectful situations. Doesn't mean the criminal adult is any less guilty, but I can empathize and feel sad for what he/she went through as a child.

Also, I want to add that, being bullied is WAY different than what BK was possibly writing about as a 15 year old with neurological problems.

 

[drmrgrl]

I wouldn't come forward if I'd dated him! But per this story, when he was at the brewery in Pennsylvania,"Kohberger asked women on staff or customers who they were at the brewery with, where they lived and what their work schedule was." I waited tables in college and that attempt at chitchat is completely inappropriate and invasive and creepy. I could see if this was his usual MO, this could be why he didn't attract many potential romantic partners.

Idaho Suspect Made "Creepy" Comments: Brewery Owner

The suspect in the killings of four University of Idaho students last month made “creepy” and inappropriate comments to women at a Pennsylvania brewery, the owner told NBC News. Bryan Christopher Kohberger, 28, made comments under his breath or if only one person was working at the bar, the...

www.nbcphiladelphia.com

IMO, it’s as if BK doesn’t know how to make ‘small talk”.He appears to be very “forward” as if he is not paying attention to social manners or Grace.

 

[kittythehare]

To me it doesn't explain anything.I was bullied and so have too many others to count.It didn't turn others into killers.

It doesn't have to turn us into bullies either though.
We can still have empathy.
Remain human.
The courts will punish him.
We don't need to become toxic .
It's being dealt with.
I prefer to stay open because I will become ill otherwise..

 

[isabella88]

But yet so many murders never are caught .. perhaps intelligence has nothing to do with it.

For sure! Intelligence isn't mandatory for murderers. I was just reacting to all of the talk everywhere about BK's intelligence.

 

[isabella88]

Could/would they do a line up?

A photo lineup is my guess.

 

[Jbaileetaxes]

IMO, they're using the word "originally" to specify how, prior to the events she witnessed, she'd been sleeping. As she'd already gone to bed, she wasn't necessarily sure what everyone else was up to, if someone was lurking around the house, if the doors were locked, etc. She also seems to have gone back to bed. If I were in her shoes & was asked when I went to bed, I'd respond "well I originally went to bed around x, but I woke up around 4 because... then I went back to bed around x".

I think the "approximately" wording is pretty standard. Unless she can provide proof of the exact time something occurred, LE would be sure to note that the time given was approximate. I'd be very surprised if she had an actual clock, other than her phone, or possibly a cable box, in her bedroom. However, I wouldn't be surprised if she sent someone a text that she could've referenced the next morning to give an approximate time. I bet she sent a few different messages during the time she kept looking out her door & that those helped them narrow down the timeline.

It points to this on page 5 of the PCA, which reads "The combination of D.M.'s statements to law enforcement, reviews of forensic downloads of records from B.F. and D.M.'s phone, and video of a suspect video as described below leads investigators to believe the homicides occurred between 4:00 a.m. and 4:25 a.m."

sounds plausible. But if it was around 4 and they say he was driving around still at 4:04 that would mean someone was awake upstairs with dog.

Another twist would be someone was already in house and he stumbled upon them

Crazy

 

[Misy]

I’ve been trying to find a current floor plan of the house specifically showing where the bedrooms were and who was in each. It was reported earlier that the 2 surviving victims were on the first floor. But it seems that DM’s bedroom was actually on floor 2. Was her room across from X’s room? She saw the masked murderer walking towards the sliding glass door. Where was he coming from… from x’s room or down the stairs from floor 3? And at that time if her room was across from where X & E were in wouldn’t she have seen X? I believe she was in the doorway, door at least partially open, and E could be seen inside the room. I hate to even type this.

 

[Cool Cats]

Just to be clear, the PCA did not say D witnessed him leave through the kitchen sliding door. We don't know, for sure, how he left the scene.

I said sliding glass door not KITCHEN sliding glass door.

The witness does mention a sliding glass door but maybe he did not go through it but I don't see why not.

She told police the figure was 5-foot-10 or taller and a male who was “not very muscular but athletically built.” The man the roommate saw, she said, also had “bushy eyebrows.” As the witness stood in a “frozen shock phase,” the man walked toward the back SLIDING GLASS DOOR, and she locked herself in her room. She said she did not recognize him.

MSN

 

[jumpingjackflash]

Maybe (could you link to one?) but the trial will include much more evidence than is in the PCA. It will expand on what is in the PCA.

Like you, I would like a PCA that is airtight. But that is unrealistic given the writers of most of them are untrained & just doing the best due diligence they can.

Everything about the search for justice process has faults and yet some form of justice is achieved every day all across the nation.

I empathize with your point (and fears) but would like to see evidence of a poorly written PCA causing someone guilty to go free. Ya got one?

One other possibility crossed my mind in regards to the strange phrasing in the PCA. Did DM get an attorney to help manage her interaction with LE? If so, is it possible that she provided only written statements and did not, in fact, respond to live questions from LE? In this case saying "DM did not state that she recognized him" would make a lot more sense.

 

[Tillyjames]

Sorry, don't care one bit about his VS or his mental issues. He knew what he was doing was wrong and he did it anyway. He may have all sorts of head junk, but he isn't insane.

I don’t think he is insane. Mental health issues don’t mean one is insane. And regardless nothing is fact of this anyways. But I think this can give a fuller picture, doesn’t make it any less horrific or sad. MOO

 

[Cindizzi]

I respectively disagree...as of what we the public, know right now, IMO its no where near a "prosecutor's dream", its very circumstantial.

There in no murder weapon, no eyewitness', no DNA mixed with the victims, no finger prints, no motive, no video of the killer, sketchy cell phone pings due to the lack of towers in the area making them up for speculation and argument, police giving out the incorrect year model of the Elantra only changed once BCK was linked to a 2015 etc... MOO

The great majority of cases are tried and won using circumstantial evidence.

Direct evidence and circumstantial evidence carry the same weight.

Even fingerprints and DNA are considered circumstantial.

Examples of direct evidence would be an eyewitness actually seeing the crime committed or a confession from the Defendant.

JMO

Circumstantial Evidence – Definition, Examples, Defense Strategies

https://youtu.be/iSLAWdUGwME Circumstantial evidence is proof of a fact or set of facts from which one could infer the fact in question. For example, that a suspect is seen running away from a murder scene with a weapon in hand is circumstantial evidence he committed the murder. This contrasts...

www.shouselaw.com

Circumstantial evidence is proof of a fact or set of facts from which one could infer the fact in question. For example, that a suspect is seen running away from a murder scene with a weapon in hand is circumstantial evidence he committed the murder. This contrasts with direct evidence, which directly proves the fact in question. An eyewitness who testifies to seeing the suspect shoot the victim is direct evidence.

Both direct and circumstantial evidence are considered legitimate forms of proof in federal and state courts. A person may be convicted of a crime based on circumstantial proof alone.

 

[ktm44]

Since this is a PCA with a solo officer recounting his own investigative summaries, I am guessing the DM used the word "bushy."

People use it in various ways. She only caught a glimpse of him. His height and sex were as important as the eyebrows, but obviously, someone with non-prominent or very thin eyebrows wouldn't fit very well. To her, they were the main thing she noticed in her brief glimpse of his partly masked face.

The idea is that the officer who writes this can be asked to come to court for the PCA process and judge can ask him/her what precisely was said. That was likely not needed in this one. More than enough there, with or without DM's eyewitness account.

The footprints in the blood are great evidence, but the DNA on the sheath is of course what pointed directly to BK.


I believe LE put it there after discovering it was not easy to secure the crime scene. I’d have to watch all those early videos again, but it has been discussed here and that’s the conclusion I drew from the series of pictures and statements by LE.

Someone suggested the latch had been removed and sent away as evidence and that made sense to me.

The stools would have been a simple barrier to keep people from walking in or out those doors.

 

[Tillyjames]

I disagree...I think we can have empathy towards what the hurting 15 year old went through reading this sad account. Doesn't mean he's excused for what he did, but just gives a possible explanation and insight of what may have contributed to becoming the adult murderer he allegedly is.

I agree with you Pennysmom. By no means does it make up for anything. BUT, no 15 year old should feel that way. It seems he had a loving family who tried to help him but unfortunately may not have received the help he ultimately still needed or to the extent. MOO

 

[10ofRods]

Why do people believe this specific profile is BK?

A person found email addresses from BCK that are linked to him by high school records or similar (according to HTC I believe).

Then, they went and looked at old social media like TapATalk which some of us remember. He was posting on a health related forum where the topic was a certain neurological condition.

The details check out.

 

[Misy]

Thank you! Sadly, adapting only goes so far: at this point, he's still not sure if he feels comfortable enough to try to learn to drive and get a driver's license. He wants to start community college to become a therapist (after five years of therapy, he has SOME OPINIONS on how therapy should be improved), but he is concerned about the amount of reading/screen time required and if his eyes/brain can handle it.

From what my family has experienced with my son (plus other mental health struggles previous to the visual snow that I won't relate), I feel so much empathy & sympathy for BK's parents. Just from the still frames and descriptions I've seen of the traffic stops, I can't watch the full videos because it seems clear how incredibly proud he is of his son and how he has possibly overcome his struggles and gotten to what feels to Dad like a successful, stable point. I get it--if it wouldn't embarrass the heck out of my kid, I suspect I'd be bragging to grocery store checkers at the slightest provocation about how my kid just got his GED after all these years of h*ll and worrying about suicide and substance abuse. For his family to feel like they can finally breathe and feel proud after possible years of struggles, only to get hit with a SWAT team and the knowledge that their son has been accused of killing 4 people.....is beyond devastating.

Of course, if heaven forbid something happened and my son went off the deep end and did something, I can just see what they'd say even though we've spent years and tons of money we didn't even have getting as much help for our kid as was available. "His mom was known to be on several true crime message boards, she discussed true crime cases with him despite him protesting that he didn't care, and they had many true crime books in the house due to her lifelong interest in criminal psychology. It is obvious she never got him the help he needed and in fact, she is responsible for creating a monster."

Big hug Gremlin444

 

[rabidstoat]

Since his phone was "off-grid" on King Street at the time of the murders, it seems likely that he would have made sure his phone was "off-grid" if and when he was disposing of the knife, bloody clothes and/or bloody shoes.

It would be useful to his defense if there were multiple other instances where his phone was off for a few hours at a time, when nothing much seemed to be going on. Then he could make an argument that having his phone off was not unusual and had happened before and it was just coincidence that it was during the murders.

 

[Arkay]

Also, I want to add that, being bullied is WAY different than what BK was possibly writing about as a 15 year old with neurological problems.

IMO, if that is truly BK writing those posts over a decade ago, it may explain him but it doesn't excuse him.

The line, "I feel like a criminal, but where is my record?" seems to me that in order to feel whole, he felt it was necessary to commit an actual crime and have a verified criminal record.

If that is even really BK---the picture IMO looks like him but more like him now, not at aged 15 or so.

If it's true that BK was feeling all this disassociation, visual snow, suicidal thoughts, hostility to his sweet father, lack of being real, that is beyond awful.

It doesn't excuse what he did.

He could've stolen money or something and earned himself a criminal record. Plus he references some medical help he was receiving.

He doesn't appear to not know right from wrong, or he wouldn't have taken the steps he did to exit the scene.


Jmo

 

[kittythehare]

I said sliding glass door not KITCHEN sliding glass door.

The witness does mention a sliding glass door but maybe he did not go through it but I don't see why not.

She told police the figure was 5-foot-10 or taller and a male who was “not very muscular but athletically built.” The man the roommate saw, she said, also had “bushy eyebrows.” As the witness stood in a “frozen shock phase,” the man walked toward the back SLIDING GLASS DOOR, and she locked herself in her room. She said she did not recognize him.

MSN

It's important because even though she saw him walk towards a door she has no way to know whether or not he actually left the building/ The threat remained present for all she knew. pCA states she froze, this suggests she got a whole lot of seriously bad vibes from this guy as well as a physical description.
That might be relevant.
she had no reason to freeze before he came along even though it had been an eventful night in terms of disturbance.
I think he scared her but she had no way of knowing what he had just done at the time.
I think whatever she 'saw' in him was terrifying.

 

[NuttMegg]

To me it doesn't explain anything.I was bullied and so have too many others to count.It didn't turn others into killers.

Agreed. I wasn't bullied, but other depressing and horrible things happened in my life in my childhood and later. But WE ALL HAVE Had THINGS happen. Looks like this guy has had a supportive family throughout it all, through age 28. I would never have considered asking my father to drop everything and drive across America in the winter, he would have thought I was nuts.

Also I had no car to borrow from my family as I was pushing 30. Or pushing 20 for that matter. I had no parental home to live in while I took online classes to advance through graduate studies.

One thing I've learned on this forum is that so many people had worse things go on in their lives than I did, but I sure had more significant challenges than anything I've so far heard about this pathetic wuss.

I'm going to scream if I start to hear what he did to these 4 kids somehow excused by mitigating circumstances.



Jmo