ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 65

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Nearly all, if not all, internet providers install internet with wireless security. The problem is the password is almost always written on the back of the modem and a lot of people partied and have been to that house and probably all know the password.
 
I know this is going to get me some heat but...I don't quite understand the snarky stance that BK was an idiot. Sure, he got caught. But, if he is guilty, he also committed a crime that the majority of society wouldn't even contemplate, did evade capture for quite awhile, and, given his education background, if guilty of the crimes, is probably basking in the notoriety.

Not backing the guy; given what's shown, I certainly believe him to be the guy. But I don't quite understand the dismissive attitude considering his intelligence surrounding his alleged actions.
I think it's because when he was first arrested there was so much talk <modsnip> casting him as "brilliant," and generally that he was in a doctoral program (in criminal justice, no less). Those things got people calling him a criminal genius of the highest sort, and lots of speculation about his being super-smart, etc., when the reality is that he might be, or he might think he is, but his academic track record was not exactly exceptional, though he performed well in a non-selective online masters program (except for that pesky final thesis he failed to complete but was passed anyway). So the reactions really are to the disconnect between being a PhD student for criminal justice and getting pretty quickly arrested for a crime he seemed to have taken some pains to plan, and to suppositions about his self-perception.
 
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I agree he was likely waiting for lights out. I think he wanted the advantage of a sneak attack without confrontation, and imo, he used the darkness and a giant knife to achieve this. I don't find his 3:29 - 4:04 back and forth odd considering that we know at least X was awake and had ordered DD. I doubt she was sitting in the dark waiting for them to arrive, and I don't think BK was going to enter through the sliding glass door into a lit kitchen/house. I'm also wondering if X had the porch light on for DD. If anything, I think his half-hour of driving back and forth by the house before the murders suggests his resolution to carry through with it that morning.

Wouldn't it make more sense for him to park somewhere nearby but off the actual street, walk to the shelter of the trees behind the house, sit down and chill whilst waiting for the lights to go out though? Easier to review his plans and nurse his resolution whilst not also navigating those neighbourhood streets, with the added bonus of lessening the chance of turning up on CCtv?
 
Simple question, and sorry if it's already been discussed, but since we've been discussing BK's cellphone tracking:

WHY, if he allegedly went to the trouble to turn it off during the time the crime was committed, did he leave it on so he could be tracked going right back to the area at 9am the next morning? I mean maybe he was looking or listening for police activity on his phone, but it seemed like the whole theorized purpose of such a trip would be to see said activity in person????
Could it be that he thought LE might do a “digital sweep” of the crime scene area the night of the murders to get leads, so he turned it off? He never thought they would otherwise zone in on him, so he thought it wouldn’t matter if he turned on his phone once out of the area the night of the crime, or the next day? (Similar to how technology was used to see who was in the area of the Capitol on January 6th).
 

Geragos, Says the search warrant being sealed is suspicious. State says if unsealed could compromise the investigation and cause harm to LE. <modsnip - bashing a Websleuths-approved source>

Geragos doubling down on a another suspect imo
IMO…the plot thickens…..
 
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<modsnip - quoted post was removed>
It seems to me that he went prepared and intending to kill. I agree that someone may have confronted him (I think most likely Xana, but that’s just my opinion), but he had already killed at least two people at that point, assuming that he went to the third floor first, which is my thought. I can’t make sense of a situation in which killing was not his plan; he could have left at any point. Again just my opinion. For me to believe he was somehow provoked/framed/went for some reason other than murder requires jumping a lot of mental hurdles that take much more effort than what the facts as they’ve been presented thus far seem to show. MOO.
 
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Wouldn't it make more sense for him to park somewhere nearby but off the actual street, walk to the shelter of the trees behind the house, sit down and chill whilst waiting for the lights to go out though? Easier to review his plans and nurse his resolution whilst not also navigating those neighbourhood streets, with the added bonus of lessening the chance of turning up on CCtv?

The temperature that night was about 26 degrees F, so sitting and chilling might be taken quite literally. We don’t know how much he likes his comfort.

 
This is possible, but it seems to me that he went prepared and intending to kill. I agree that someone may have confronted him (I think most likely Xana, but that’s just my opinion), but he had already killed at least two people at that point, assuming that he went to the third floor first, which is my thought. I can’t make sense of a situation in which killing was not his plan; he could have left at any point. Again just my opinion. For me to believe he was somehow provoked/framed/went for some reason other than murder requires jumping a lot of mental hurdles that take much more effort than what the facts as they’ve been presented thus far seem to show. MOO.
Agreed 100 % with the bolded.
He (imo) wasn't going to rob them or simply stalk and look at them as they slept (stalker-ish).
 
I agree he was likely waiting for lights out. I think he wanted the advantage of a sneak attack without confrontation, and imo, he used the darkness and a giant knife to achieve this. I don't find his 3:29 - 4:04 back and forth odd considering that we know at least X was awake and had ordered DD. I doubt she was sitting in the dark waiting for them to arrive, and I don't think BK was going to enter through the sliding glass door into a lit kitchen/house. I'm also wondering if X had the porch light on for DD. If anything, I think his half-hour of driving back and forth by the house before the murders suggests his resolution to carry through with it that morning.
IMO, or BK was suspicious of someone else who might to do it. Think “Strangers on a Train”
 
Yes, It's so damn siiiillly. What a bonehead MOO
BK would have stuck out like a sore thumb at a frat party. Usually, there is a specific type of individual that is part of a fraternity, and their friends fit the mold. BK, no way. Too old, he doesn't look right, or dress right.
This is my opinion only. BK would avoid a situation where he is clearly out of place--too old, knows no one, etc. Also, BK's apparently felt very superior to the undergraduates whose work he graded in his role as TA. I can't see him wanting to socialize with fraternity boys. And finally, around any university there are bars where graduate students go and hang out with their peers. I did my grad work at an urban university; there were (among other options) two adjacent bars, one usually frequented by faculty and grad students and the other by undergrads. There was of course some overlap there, but if BK wanted social contact, he could have found bars and clubs in Pullman or Moscow rather than go to frat parties.
 
The State does not have to offer you the option of pleading guilty. That is your right.

In Idaho, it appears that after a guilty finding (whether by trial or by plea) for matters that could result in a death sentence (murder in first degree), there is a separate investigation and hearing on the sentencing that entails a whole picture of the situation, from defendant's background to victim family statements/impact. Specifically they look for statutory aggravating factors as well as mitigating factors. If there is a statutory aggravating factor (multiple murders is the second one listed, but there are 11 or 12) and any mitigating factors don't exist that, weighed as a whole, would make death an unjust penalty, the sentence is death. If aggravating exists and sufficient mitigating, LWOP. If no aggravating, life (minimum 10 years).


Mitigation is defined in jury instructions for a DP sentencing hearing this way:



That said, in reality the death penalty even in Idaho is rare, and actual executions rarer still. Most die on death row, or have sentences reduced on appeal, or sometimes exonerated. There hasn't been an execution in Idaho 10 years, and iirc one recently scheduled was canceled for lack of drug availability. They've only carried out 3 executions since 1957 (1994, 2011, 2012). There are 8 people on death row as of December 2022, but although between 2011-2019 there were 173 DP-eligible convictions, only one resulted in a sentence of death.


DP prosecutions are extremely expensive and politically fraught (likewise death sentences themselves; it is appeal after appeal usually). I doubt the prosecution will take it off the table anytime soon, but I also doubt they really want to ask for a death sentence if they get a guilty. The prosecution has to file a notice of intent to seek the DP, and I'm not clear on when that happens, though I assume it could be withdrawn at any point prior to actual sentencing.
Prosecutor has 60 days from the time BK enters a plea to say if he will seek DP.


If the magistrate judge agrees that there is evidence to justify the charges, the case will be “bound over” into Idaho's 2nd District Court, and a district judge will take over. Then Kohberger will have a chance to enter a plea. If he pleads not guilty, the case will begin working toward a trial. If he pleads guilty, a sentencing hearing will be set.

Thompson has 60 days from the time Kohberger enters a plea to say if he will seek the death penalty.
 
Thanks for this thoughtful and well considered reply. I confess that the frustration of feeling that we cannot know what we need to know to prevent these tragedies gets to me.

Professor Katherine Ramsland, who has studied serial killers as much as anyone in the world, says she can't do it. In an interview with The New York Times, she disputed claims that people who knew the so-called BTK killer should have been able to recognize his evil:

"When I mentioned my thoughts to Ramsland, though, she disagreed that people who knew Rader could have connected the dots. Why would they? To the contrary, one reason Ramsland believes that Rader was able to keep his cover was that 'he grew up in a Germanic Midwestern family where there was not a lot of emotion. Like my family.'"

In her book about BTK - “Confession” - she posits "that some serial killers are more like the rest of us than common wisdom tells us. In the annals of serial killers, [BTK] is hardly the only one who held down a facade of normalcy while hunting his prey, but he managed it far longer than many others. There are many qualities, Ramsland writes, that ordinary people share with so-called monsters: 'overestimating our willpower, idealizing ourselves, daydreaming about power, indulging in secret behaviors that keep attracting us, deceiving others and keeping secrets.'"

I am confident that I won't kill anyone, but not because I'm not capable of it. I grew up in a religious family, and as I watch my kids grow I have come to appreciate what the discipline of a religion based upon a creator-god of infinite love, whose only command is that we accept and share that love, does to civilize us, to create and enforce family and community standards of good behavior, and thus to curb the animal behavior that would otherwise manifest itself more often among us.

There are other disciplines that have the same effect, of course; moral and ethical standards are built into many professional disciplines and unionized work communities. But IMO it is the discipline imposed by culture and its institutions and communities that keeps humans from killing and maiming each other when they're very angry.

I'm enjoying this conversation with you so much. Thank you for the Ramsland quotes - makes me like her a good deal more.

And, in the middle of the night, I did start thinking about the role of religion (that inexplicable system of humans that requires faith and belief, and is not entirely rational). I was raised in a religion that strong encouraged loving behavior toward others, and strict adherence to a moral code that went far beyond what some other religions required. I too am now appreciating the impact of that religion on me, and it probably explains why my children went to a Quaker preschool and a religious elementary school for several years. I'm not saying that a non-religious person can't also have intense compassion and love for others (I'm sitting on the couch with such a person right now), but that for me, the planks laid down in my psyche by my parents were very, very helpful.

I am going to also posit that academia itself is not the same. It certainly has ethics (about which no one agrees, it's not a religion) but it does not typically advocate any particular morality. Terrible things have been done in the name of science, for example. I think there is a subset of people who do want to kill/maim/physically attack when they are very angry (and there's good science about why it varies by sex).

If BK had a lifelong urge to physically act out his anger, that's a problem. To then go into a field that constantly puts more and more graphic crime into his mind is probably not the best idea for someone who has urges to act out violently. Perhaps he thought studying other violent criminals would aid him in mastering his own impulses and it was working for him pretty well, until it was not. Life dealt him some more unexpected blows. Blows to his ego (in both senses of the word). Blows that I personally regard as only mildly vexxing (including the bullying). I was of course taught to "love my enemies."

To think that one man could have so much incoherent violent intent inside him, waiting to spill out. When I do think about it, I pretty quickly get worried about how many other people might be the same.

I wanted to tell you that while we both agree that not everyone is capable of mass murder, I definitely have to fight my own impulse to regard all humans as capable of goodness and kindness - it's not true. My religious upbringing would have been quite different, I think, had I not lived in a small town where everyone had similar beliefs, there was almost no crime, etc. And when I got out into the big world, I wasn't prepared for some of what other people did. Still am not.
 
It does seem very odd to me, too. He doesn't seem to be "eat up" with common sense, as my grandfather used to say. Based on what I saw online, his Criminology degree from DeSales covered causes of crime, ethics, research methods, criminal justice system and processes, statistics and data analysis. They do have forensics degrees but that doesn't seem to be what he took. So it looks like he didn't know a lot of investigative or forensic details that would keep him from getting caught.

It appears he wasn't concerned about his phone being seen in the area repeatedly before the crime, since it was seen so often. Maybe he thought as long as his phone didn't show during the murders, he would be free and clear. That would be short-sighted, but possible.

He may have needed the map feature right after the crime for that long, circuitous route in the wee hours. I can't think of any reason for that trip other than to dump evidence. The next morning, maybe he simply forgot to turn it off for that morning trip back.

We don't know that he actually avoided the area entirely after that. He could have put his phone in airplane mode each time. To me, it looks more guilty that he stopped being trackable in that area after the murders. Innocent people wouldn't think of being tracked at all. But, with a guilty mind, he might not have seen it that way.

JMOO
Really, there was a confluence of factors that put BK on LE's radar: the identification of a white Elantra, the bit of DNA on the sheath snap, and the cell phone records showing him so often in that area. Without the Elantra and the DNA, the phone would not have come into play. That said, who knows why he didn't realize the car was going to five him say? My opinion only.
 
If guilty...

I think that when confronted with death penalty, he might plead guilty.

I noticed when he was in Court for the 1st time - when death penalty was mentioned - he started rocking in his chair (as orphans in need of comforting).

I think he is terrified.

JMO
Although it is on the books, there is currently no effective DP in Idaho. It's because manufacturers of the drugs don't want the bad PR of supplying. Because of this, Idaho called off the execution of Gerald Pizzuto, Jr. in December.
 
Really, there was a confluence of factors that put BK on LE's radar: the identification of a white Elantra, the bit of DNA on the sheath snap, and the cell phone records showing him so often in that area. Without the Elantra and the DNA, the phone would not have come into play. That said, who knows why he didn't realize the car was going to five him say? My opinion only.
Yea, the road to identifying him began with the car IMO
 
The State does not have to offer you the option of pleading guilty. That is your right.

In Idaho, it appears that after a guilty finding (whether by trial or by plea) for matters that could result in a death sentence (murder in first degree), there is a separate investigation and hearing on the sentencing that entails a whole picture of the situation, from defendant's background to victim family statements/impact. Specifically they look for statutory aggravating factors as well as mitigating factors. If there is a statutory aggravating factor (multiple murders is the second one listed, but there are 11 or 12) and any mitigating factors don't exist that, weighed as a whole, would make death an unjust penalty, the sentence is death. If aggravating exists and sufficient mitigating, LWOP. If no aggravating, life (minimum 10 years).


Mitigation is defined in jury instructions for a DP sentencing hearing this way:



That said, in reality the death penalty even in Idaho is rare, and actual executions rarer still. Most die on death row, or have sentences reduced on appeal, or sometimes exonerated. There hasn't been an execution in Idaho 10 years, and iirc one recently scheduled was canceled for lack of drug availability. They've only carried out 3 executions since 1957 (1994, 2011, 2012). There are 8 people on death row as of December 2022, but although between 2011-2019 there were 173 DP-eligible convictions, only one resulted in a sentence of death.


DP prosecutions are extremely expensive and politically fraught (likewise death sentences themselves; it is appeal after appeal usually). I doubt the prosecution will take it off the table anytime soon, but I also doubt they really want to ask for a death sentence if they get a guilty. The prosecution has to file a notice of intent to seek the DP, and I'm not clear on when that happens, though I assume it could be withdrawn at any point prior to actual sentencing.
IMO, yet another reason (set of reasons) BK could have decided to commit the murders in Idaho -- likely to escape the death penalty if he got caught. JMOO
 
Wouldn't it make more sense for him to park somewhere nearby but off the actual street, walk to the shelter of the trees behind the house, sit down and chill whilst waiting for the lights to go out though? Easier to review his plans and nurse his resolution whilst not also navigating those neighbourhood streets, with the added bonus of lessening the chance of turning up on CCtv?
Someone upthread said it was only like 20 degrees that morning, so maybe he didn't want to sit in the cold, especially if he had an all black outfit he was wearing that didn't include a coat. Also, I don't think he planned to be parked anywhere for very long. That runs the risk of being noticed, too. Not knowing how long it was going to take for them to go to bed, maybe he just thought he'd watch awhile. Who knows what was in his mind. Honestly, he probably figured they'd be in bed by the time he got there at 3:30, so wasn't sure what to do when he saw they weren't.
 
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