ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 68

[jepop]

IMO it would be very strange if BK never set foot in a restaurant selling vegan pizza or other vegan food.

And add to it that 2 employees of this restaurant were murdered allegedly by him.

I don't get the accusation of a former worker allegedly wanting 5 mins of fame.
What???
Was this person even named?

I guess all mysteries will be revealed during a trial (whenever it might be).

JMO

BBM Or at least some! (but all would be good too!).

 

[jepop]

I think there is more to her statement that hasn't been released. There are snippets of sounds she heard and I would be very certain that LE would have asked questions about hearing him leave, how long it may have taken him to depart, sounds of running water, etc. She may have even been able to indicate if any bath or kitchen towels were missing that may have been used to wrap an unsheathed knife.

Both roommates have lived in the house long enough to know if a bedroom was missing a pillow or pillowcase, which could also be used to wrap an unsheathed knife.

Agree, and I'd guess that both surviving roommates and possibly most/all friends that came over that morning would have provided detailed statements to police but that is MOO. Apart from the snippets of DM's statement in the PCA, we don't know what is in them (if they were given) so hard to conjecture going forward. But that's an interesting thought about missing towells (if in DM's or B's police statements) pointing to/and or supporting how the BK (allegedly) carried out the weopen. MOO

 

[everybodhi]

That is all up to the prosecutor. He/she is supposed to do what they deem correct. But of course cost and case load certainly figures in to that even if we think it shouldn't. There are realities that have to be considered. It is a factor in a defense as well but it is a little different.

More often than not a plea agreement is made for whatever reason, cost and case load being a common consideration.

Cornell Law School
Plea Bargain

According to the Department of Justice's Bureau of Justice Assistance, "The overwhelming majority (90 to 95 percent) of cases result in plea bargaining."

Controversy Surrounding Plea Bargains​

Although plea bargaining allows the criminal justice system to conserve resources, the plea bargains are controversial. Some commentators oppose plea bargains, as they feel that plea bargains allow defendants to shirk responsibility for the crimes they have committed. Others argue that plea bargains are too coercive and undermine important constitutional rights. Plea bargaining does require defendants to waive three rights protected by the Fifth and Sixth Amendments: the right to a jury trial, the right against self-incrimination, and the right to confront witnesses. The Supreme Court, however, in numerous cases (such as Brady v. United States, 397 U.S. 742 (1970) has held that plea bargaining is constitutional. The Supreme Court, however, has held that defendants’ guilty pleas must be voluntary, and that defendants may only plead guilty if they know the consequences of doing so. McCarthy v. United States 394 U.S. 459 (1969).

 

[jepop]

I know there are a lot of questions right now about the possibility of BK going to the Mad Greek. I’m not sure if the date/s in question, but if LE has a record of his phone pings wouldn’t that show up for that location if he was there? Or is the visit supposed to have happened during a time that LE didn’t get the records for? Just asking

I don't think the Pings would necesarily show he was right there, anymore than the Pings (alone) can unreservedly place him on Queen Street those 12 times (that we know of) prior to Nov 13 (PCA ref). IMO.
I'd imagine LE have detailed warrant to thoroughly search his phone for historical data plus data held by Google etc if BK had an account, plus app data... so there may be more evidence to come in a digital sense to present a more detailed picture of his movements prior to and after Nov 13 (up until early Dec. whereafter I believe he was probably being watched or surveiled by fbi or le or both until his arrest on DEC 31 - that last part is just a guess).

MOO

ETA: just remembered that of the 12 Pings prior to NOV 13 eleven were for late night early morning hours IIRC. Not sure how that might change any conjectures re BK and MG restaurant at least during those 12 times we know of when BK phone pinged off same tower that the King St. residence used for digital data.
MOO

 

[jepop]

I don't think the Pings would necesarily show he was right there, anymore than the Pings (alone) can unreservedly place him on Queen Street those 12 times (that we know of) prior to Nov 13 (PCA ref). IMO.
I'd imagine LE have detailed warrant to thoroughly search his phone for historical data plus data held by Google etc if BK had an account, plus app data... so there may be more evidence to come in a digital sense to present a more detailed picture of his movements prior to and after Nov 13 (up until early Dec. whereafter I believe he was probably being watched or surveiled by fbi or le or both until his arrest on DEC 31 - that last part is just a guess).

MOO

Reply to self: There was a track and trace placed on his phone no. on DEC 23rd (PCA ref) so if BK wa still using that number at that time (some have conjectured he may have ditched his phone post NOv 14th but there is no evidence IIRC either way for that supposition ie could be/ may not be!) so If I understand that correctly, if BK was still using his number. LE would have known exactly where BK was between 23rd DEC and his arrest as long as his phone was switched on. That's MOO and I might be wrong regarding the track and trace and what it does but that makes the most sense to me as a layperson.

 

[jepop]

I decided LE knows best about this case. If they have facts and details they choose to keep from the public, so what? We have no right or need to know. The defense attny will get it all in Discovery. I believe there is evidence the public isn't aware of that will be presented at trial.

I'm totally in agreement that LE knows best. It's their job afterall!

 

[Nila Aella]

Pondering: Why was the screen off this window? Investigators seem interested in this window. Any thoughts? JMO

UI Student Murders

335 new items · Album by Jennifer

photos.google.com

edit: added photo link and grammar

 

[jepop]

[snipped for focus]


And--a big MOO here--I don't think I have a right to know everything the police, the prosecution or the defense may know before trial. It's not uncommon to have some conflict between two Constitutional rights; conflicts between the freedom of religion and freedom FROM religion go back to the founding. Freedom of speech can be curtailed if said speech endangers the public (crying "fire" in a crowded theater is the usual example).

BBM: this articulates my own feelings on the extended Gag, its intention and the rationale behind it. The general public and the witnesses and their families are not gagged, IMO, though I've seen nothing definite on that (I am not a lawyer - but even those with legal know how on here don't seem sure).(all MOO)
But your big MOO is also one of my big MOOs.

 

[newredtabby]

AND, one other question…

Wait, I’m sorry, I don’t mean to sound dumb, I went back and I read through the thread and I may be misunderstanding a bit so wanted to clarify… when you speak of impinging on someone else’s rights, are you specifically referring to BK’s rights? Again, sorry if it sounds like a dumb question, I’m just trying to make sure I follow. Appreciate it.

BK's right to a fair trial, the 4 victims, and society at large's right to justice and protection.

 

[everybodhi]

>snipped
The gag is controversial and may not be upheld. It will have a chilling effect on any and everyone who has knowledge and information that should be available. JMO. That overarching gag is what misinformation, rumor and innuendo thrives on.
And importantly, to begin with, an anonymous source is not a disembodied mystery spirit, but a person with information who is vetted by responsable news organizations. The protected source has to meet various criteria and its use must be evaluated and approved by both a Sr reporter and Editor. If they were tricked- we will hear about that, too.
Do we really want to give up rights and access to vital information from official sources and squash speech just because it is uncomfortable to the denizens of a small community to be beset by social media or purveyors of dubious, morbid entertainment? I understand that they want this tragedy to go away, but it won’t. Secrecy and mistrust of outsiders will only make things worse.
No arguing there may be the need for a more limited restriction, but this is way over reach. IMO
Supporting LE or the Judicial system does not require blind acquiescence or the belief that it is infallible. Their interaction and timely updates with the Press is a sacred public service duty, too.
Where would WS be without access to open information?
IMO MOO
This person has made it clear:

Conversations with the officials involved in criminal cases helps journalists understand the nuances of legal arguments and the technical steps of court proceedings so their coverage can be fair and thorough, said media coalition member and Idaho Press Club President Betsy Russell.

“We’re not lawyers for the most part, nor are our readers, and those explanations can help make sure that inaccurate information isn’t spread about what’s happening in our halls of justice,” Russell said.

News outlets join to oppose gag order in Idaho stabbing case

Twenty-two regional and national news organizations have formed a coalition to ask a judge to narrow a gag order in the case of a man accused of killing four University of Idaho students.

apnews.com

Forming a coalition and filing a complaint is easy enough but filing a motion in court as a third party against an order that is not directed at the them is another. There is nothing in the order silencing the press, it specifies only lawyers and LE attached to the case and their agents.
Why do they need lawyers working this case to explain “nuances of legal arguments and the technical steps of court proceedings”? There’s tons of available lawyers not working this case available to help them with that.
They also state they want access to their anonymous LE sources during the ongoing criminal investigation.
That seems like it would result in some very one sided and biased reporting, doesn’t it? We all know where LE stands in any case, to prove guilt, against the accused.
Put this case aside and imagine you are charged with a crime and LE is feeding information to the press, perhaps even LE not directly working on your case who may be repeating rumors and opinions being talked about at work, there’s no way to know what’s accurate, there’s no honesty oath to the press or cross examination.
It just doesn’t seem fair to allow LE to continue to anonymously give inside information to the ravenous press during the coming months, perhaps years, of this high profile, heavily covered, criminal investigation and trial, jmo.
Allow our justice system to prove the case, with cross examination and witnesses under oath, it’s not the media’s job to prove guilt or innocence, nor their area of expertise.
It is their job to identify “misinformation, rumor and innuendo”, however, and to not print it, or to expose it. They’ve done a poor job in that regard on this case, even repeating social media rumors themselves, then passing it around and using each other as on the record sources.
Jmo

 

[jepop]

Just noticed a photo included in the story that shows LE visiting MG restaurant. It is dated Nov 17th underneath the photo. JMO

Bryan Kohberger ate at Idaho restaurant where two victims worked: report

Murder suspect Bryan Kohberger ate at the Mad Greek restaurant in Moscow, Idaho, where two students worked as servers before they were stabbed to death, according to a new report.

www.foxnews.com

Nice spot.
I think it just goes to show, IMO, that if we believe that LE carried out an effective investigation, it is highly likely they interviewed workmates of the victims in the immediate days after the crime, collected available and relevant video/surveilance data and so forth. That is just MOO. I have no proof and concede that we can't know for sure. But to me it is a reasonable inference for LE being in MG (is that what the photo shows?) on 17 November. Not directed at you (OP) or anyone in particular, just thinking aloud.
MOO

 

[acutename]

You can't disprove any wild speculation. You can't disprove it was done by aliens
That don't make it true, but the cafe owner probs has video that police have scoured through along with digital transactions.
There currently nothing to say the perp was there, more so vegan meals ordered, especially timeline cash receipt

Did the witness receive monies for the interview to say they saw someone like the accused?

would be good to know if there is documentation that the person in question really was an employee at one time and... could it be that they were a delivery person so not an employee but also possibly intetacting with BK?

 

[SophieRose]

Pondering: Why was the screen off this window? Investigators seem interested in this window. Any thoughts? JMO

UI Student Murders

335 new items · Album by Jennifer

photos.google.com

edit: added photo link and grammar

The screen was already off before the murders. I noticed the screen in the video where Kaylee comes out and talks to LE about the noise complaint on the back porch. Was that in Aug?

 

[Nila Aella]

The screen was already off before the murders. I noticed the screen in the video where Kaylee comes out and talks to LE about the noise complaint on the back porch. Was that in Aug?

Great catch! I do see it leaning up against the wall.

Bodycam footage shows Kaylee Goncalves speaking to cops

Moscow Police responded to the King Road home on August 16 for a noise complaint, when Kaylee Goncalves could be seen speaking to officers outside.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[CityKid]

I’m going to play devil’s advocate for a moment — not to argue, but just to pose the question… Why do we automatically believe the owner, over the server who no longer works there and gave this information to the press? Isn’t it just as plausible that the owner’s side of the story is false? I can think of several reasons why an owner of an establishment may not want this kind of press. I’m not accusing anyone of anything I’m just saying I can see motives a business owner would have for not wanting this kind of publicity. And, isn’t it possible that the server who spoke to the press, who gave them this information about BK being there could be telling the truth and the owner could simply have been unaware of the incidents? Maybe not in the restaurant that day, or no one thought much of it at the time so the owner didn’t make any kind of mental note about it. Like, in essence, couldn’t they both be telling the truth just based on the extent of information that each of them personally has? Does that make sense? Again, I’m not trying to argue with anybody or argue in favor of one or the other… I’m just suggesting maybe it’s not so black and white?

I'm currently leaning in favor of the owner for two reasons: One, "former employee" gave a very anodyne story about BK's order, one that any of us could have made up. Saying he ordered a vegan pizza, literally the only item on the whole menu labeled vegan (Mad Greek - Menu) and didn't want it to come into contact with animal products stood out to the former employee (FE)—couldn't any one of us expected that to be true? Two, the People story does say FE "alleges" this but doesn't say FE backed up their allegation with something more solid than what they said, which has been in every piece of coverage of this case. No description of his other behavior (kept staring at the women working there; any small talk; whether he took it to go or stayed there; nice tipper etc.), just his completely ordinary vegan order in a non vegan restaurant. I wrote in another post that I'm hoping MG has a decent system where the owner can pull up all vegan pizzas sold from July to November 12, see if any were takeouts (would have a name on the order) or eat-in (would say 1 person), if the date aligned with when the FE was working, and how the order was paid for to settle this.

 

[cottonweaver]

posting again, what the Mad Greek actually said

Local TV reporter tweet:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1616626962889596928

or, just in case, that tweet is an issue.... here's Law & Crime's Levy with the same

https://twitter.com/x/status/1616613504185688064

 

[SophieRose]

I've looked at the back of the house and wondered if BK walked past Dylan's bedroom on his way in or out. That's her window on the far right and Maddie's room above it. Neither room have windows in the front.

The house on King Road: A look at the Moscow home where four U of I students were killed - East Idaho News

(Idaho Statesman) — At 1122 King Road in Moscow sits a gray six-bedroom, three-bathroom house that continues to be the source of significant national attention. Known as a student rental, the home’s most recent tenants were a group of six University of Idaho undergraduates who signed a 12-month...

www.eastidahonews.com

 

[cottonweaver]

I wade into these murky waters because I am convinced there is a fundamental misunderstanding about the importance for a free democratic society to have access to official information and the role that vital access has in its continued existence. As far as I know the unnamed source- and I would have requested anonymity too, given the environment- may have broken the pinkie promise for silence or left before it went into effect. The owner is upset at the attention and necessary response to LE queries, but the source got no fame and obviously spoke out with trepidation. Why would there have even been that discussion around silence to begin with is concerning to me. She could have come out early on and said we know nothing, he was not a customer, thank you very much, as incredulous as that sounds given the circumstances. Or, we are reviewing our transactions, etc etc. and will get back through our spokesperson.
I don’t get the resentment. Unless she has something to hide in order to avoid inquiries or has been led to believe that by divulging something she would create a problem that I can’t imagine. But now, the only obvious issue to me is that she has thrown a former employee under the bus and taken refuge behind local LE.
Stress? Local politics?
I can empathize even more now with Steve G’s desperation in the days and weeks he could not get any information.
The gag is controversial and may not be upheld. It will have a chilling effect on any and everyone who has knowledge and information that should be available. JMO. That overarching gag is what misinformation, rumor and innuendo thrives on.
And importantly, to begin with, an anonymous source is not a disembodied mystery spirit, but a person with information who is vetted by responsable news organizations. The protected source has to meet various criteria and its use must be evaluated and approved by both a Sr reporter and Editor. If they were tricked- we will hear about that, too.
Do we really want to give up rights and access to vital information from official sources and squash speech just because it is uncomfortable to the denizens of a small community to be beset by social media or purveyors of dubious, morbid entertainment? I understand that they want this tragedy to go away, but it won’t. Secrecy and mistrust of outsiders will only make things worse.
No arguing there may be the need for a more limited restriction, but this is way over reach. IMO
Supporting LE or the Judicial system does not require blind acquiescence or the belief that it is infallible. Their interaction and timely updates with the Press is a sacred public service duty, too.
Where would WS be without access to open information?
IMO MOO
This person has made it clear:

Conversations with the officials involved in criminal cases helps journalists understand the nuances of legal arguments and the technical steps of court proceedings so their coverage can be fair and thorough, said media coalition member and Idaho Press Club President Betsy Russell.

“We’re not lawyers for the most part, nor are our readers, and those explanations can help make sure that inaccurate information isn’t spread about what’s happening in our halls of justice,” Russell said.

News outlets join to oppose gag order in Idaho stabbing case

Twenty-two regional and national news organizations have formed a coalition to ask a judge to narrow a gag order in the case of a man accused of killing four University of Idaho students.

apnews.com

I'd love to reply to it all but it's a very wide-ranging post and I don't want to do a long reply to each aspect but just on a couple of points & their implications

- you're expecting to hear this witness's account of BK being a client of the Mad Greek in the probable cause hearing in June? ( it's not something the prosecution would want to omit, logically)
- and the gag order not to be upheld?

 

[YaYa_521]

This thread is now closed. Click below to continue in Thread #69.

ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 69

This tragedy seems to be breaking news: Police said they responded to King Road for a report of an unconscious person. When officers arrived, they “discovered four individuals who were deceased...”...

www.websleuths.com