ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 70

[want2solveit]

Exactly. Crazy people don't do things for NO reason, they do things for CRAZY reasons!

I think your hypothesis is well put and applies to serial killers and many of those who murder strangers for no apparent reason.

I assume he was stalking at least two of the girls. If he followed them home late at night/early morning, when every one else was asleep. He could see, maybe when their lights went on, where their room was? I think Forensics may have found his semen on the bodies; not like a rape, but as if he'd stood over their dead bodies and masturbated. moo, moo. That's just a scenario I pictured, based on no facts, yet.

Could possibly be that.
how do you go in a house, when it's dark, and know your getting to the victim you want ?
And not falling over something or tripping over, maybe he was watching the proposed victim, and new which room. Was there any light do we know , say street lights, forgive me if this has already been discussed, because it must be very difficult to do all that in the dark

 

[Sjöberg]

".....Chapin didn't live in the house but was sleeping over with his girlfriend, 20-year-old Xana Kernodle, who was also among the victims....."

This is why I think he wasn't targeted and surprised BK.

The interesting thing about this is that Ethan had a very distinctive red jeep. That was parked in front of the house. There is no way BK missed it. Furthermore, Xana was the only one still moving around at ca 4 o'clock. So the likelihood of her having a guest over is even bigger, imo.

Either BK knew Ethan was there and did not care (maybe planned to kill only upstairs, maybe had a reason to believe Ethan was not a threat to him, etc) or BK was not sure if Ethan was there and decided to go in anyways (say, he often parked his car there even while he was at the frat and that he usually walked to the frat by 4 o'clock - BK did not see him leaving, but assumed he must have left by that time as per usual, that might have been reinforced if he saw Xana moving around alone; though I must say I don't understand how he saw anything as he was circling the neighbourhood far and wide instead of surveilling the house).

MOO

 

[jepop]

Pondering several questions-
I wonder if BK circling the house several times that night before he went in was a sign of hesitation or, was he trying to get a feel for who was possibly there and were they asleep? I am guessing he did not see the door dasher. If he had, it would have been a red flag that there were people awake in the house. I also wonder if he had possibly followed any of them that evening and hung out in the crowd somewhere and something made him (obviously) snap. So many questions, scenarios of how the events unfolded.

Yea, I remember discussing this with other posters on prior threads. I ended up speculating back then that the killer was/had become committed to carrying out the act that morning, 'come hell or highwater' :-(. The 'circling' could have been either getting up the nerve, or waiting for lights out in living room and Xana's room on the second floor, per speculations.

At c4.04am, when the alleged killer was attempting to park (as per PCA p 6), perhaps the living room and XK's room lights were out as they had not been prior. Or perhaps the living room light was finally out, and XK's room light had gone out earlier. BK allegedly 'circled' between c 3.29 amd 4.04am (PCA, p6).

From the front of house, living Room and XK's room windows are visible. KG's windows are visible on the third floor as is a bathroom window. MM's bedroom window is only visible from the rear, as is the window of what turned out to be the room DM slept in that evening. As far as MM's light goes, he may have just taken a calulated risk at that point (4.04am) because time running short. Speculation. MOO

PCA

122922 Affidavit - Exhibit A - Statement of Brett Payne.pdf | PDF Host

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UI Student Murders

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ETA: In regard to your last sentence, I don't believe he was in Moscow earlier in the night. Reconstruction of phone pings and what video surveilance was available shows BK leaving Pullman at about 2.45am (PCA p5). If he had attended any frat events or whatever earlier (with phone turned off I guess) surely someone would have IDed him to police in the aftermath of arrest. MOO

Edited

 

[I'm Nobody]

The interesting thing about this is that Ethan had a very distinctive red jeep. That was parked in front of the house. There is no way BK missed it. Furthermore, Xana was the only one still moving around at ca 4 o'clock. So the likelihood of her having a guest over is even bigger, imo.

Either BK knew Ethan was there and did not care (maybe planned to kill only upstairs, maybe had a reason to believe Ethan was not a threat to him, etc) or BK was not sure if Ethan was there and decided to go in anyways (say, he often parked his car there even while he was at the frat and that he usually walked to the frat by 4 o'clock - BK did not see him leaving, but assumed he must have left by that time as per usual, that might have been reinforced if he saw Xana moving around alone; though I must say I don't understand how he saw anything as he was circling the neighbourhood far and wide instead of surveilling the house).

MOO

Wouldn't the killer count the cars parked outside the house? LE towed 5 cars from 1122 after. If BK knew Ethan left his red Jeep there most of the time, still 4 other cars. Kaylee had just purchased her new Range Rover days before, unless she posted it on SM probably, how'd BK know it wasn't a sleepover? From the parked cars outside I think BK had to know there were at least 4 people inside that night. Maybe that's part of why the 3 circle/drive-bys.

OR BK knew his main target was leaving and it was now or never.

"The vehicles—a Land Rover, Range Rover, Chevy, Jeep Wrangler and Ford Explorer—have been parked outside the house since the night of the killings"

MOO

Idaho police seize five cars as investigation into student murders deepens

Police have yet to name a suspect after four University of Idaho students were found dead in an off-campus house on November 13.

www.newsweek.com

 

[Cool Cats]

The interesting thing about this is that Ethan had a very distinctive red jeep. That was parked in front of the house. There is no way BK missed it. Furthermore, Xana was the only one still moving around at ca 4 o'clock. So the likelihood of her having a guest over is even bigger, imo.

Either BK knew Ethan was there and did not care (maybe planned to kill only upstairs, maybe had a reason to believe Ethan was not a threat to him, etc) or BK was not sure if Ethan was there and decided to go in anyways (say, he often parked his car there even while he was at the frat and that he usually walked to the frat by 4 o'clock - BK did not see him leaving, but assumed he must have left by that time as per usual, that might have been reinforced if he saw Xana moving around alone; though I must say I don't understand how he saw anything as he was circling the neighbourhood far and wide instead of surveilling the house).

MOO

BK is a smart student but a stupid clueless criminal. I wouldn't give him credit for knowing about Ethan's jeep.

Not someone who leaves their knife sheath after stabbing people and couldn't keep their touch DNA off of it. Not someone who brings their cell phone 12 times near the home they are stalking. Not someone who drives their own car to their crime scene and messages a victim several times just a few weeks before allegedly killing her and her roommates.

Not even smart enough to cover his entire face at the murder scene. If the witness had just seen a tall lanky guy with a mask...well....there are a lot of tall lanky guys. Add-in bushy eyebrows and....well.....the devil is in the details.

Question:

And who looks at every detail?

Answer:

12 citizens sitting around a table after closing arguments.

 

[Followfacts]

IMO BK wanted to make sure Ethan was there. His arrival time coincided with when Ethan would be up and returning to frat house. Striking when a guy is present elevates BK. BK looking for a fight, BK can’t be seen as a killer who attacks sleeping defenseless women. IMO BK wanted the fight with Ethan first to prove to himself he’s a superior male using his skills and training. Once he kills Ethan he’s worked up in a reinforced killing mindset to continue killing these women that the male Ethan could not defend. The Women are trophy kills.
BK like other killers need to kill at least one man in their spree killings, to prove to themselves their species dominance over other men. It’s a symbol of achievement.

It’s a war scenario, mentality. Take out the male, do whatever with the women in that males area. It’s spacial dominance to defeat a perceived equal.
To just kill a women, or multiple women everybody knows is weak and cowardly.
BK cannot have that in his own mind, he’s not afraid of taking on a male and killing him first.
The house was the target and Ethan had to be there. Driving around could be seen as BK making sure Ethan was up at that time and moving around.

 

[Nila Aella]

He could have seen DM, but she wasn't one of the people he wanted to kill. MOO

With the close quarters of that hallway, he could have seen the movement and sound of the door opening and closing, and the sound of the lock. JMO

 

[Nila Aella]

Defendant's response to request for discovery posted on case summary 1/30/2023

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/Summary/Case-Summary-Kohberger-013023.pdf

edit: added defendant's

 

[layer]

just leaves me wondering how small the attorney pool is there.

Slim pickings. There is no state public defender system in Idaho. There are only four lawyers in Latah County who are contracted with the county for public defender work. One of them is the coroner, Cathy Mabbutt. Another lawyer in her office also does public defender work and should be equally conflicted.

Source

 

[jepop]

IMO BK wanted to make sure Ethan was there. His arrival time coincided with when Ethan would be up and returning to frat house. Striking when a guy is present elevates BK. BK looking for a fight, BK can’t be seen as a killer who attacks sleeping defenseless women. IMO BK wanted the fight with Ethan first to prove to himself he’s a superior male using his skills and training. Once he kills Ethan he’s worked up in a reinforced killing mindset to continue killing these women that the male Ethan could not defend. The Women are trophy kills.
BK like other killers need to kill at least one man in their spree killings, to prove to themselves their species dominance over other men. It’s a symbol of achievement.

It’s a war scenario, mentality. Take out the male, do whatever with the women in that males area. It’s spacial dominance to defeat a perceived equal.
To just kill a women, or multiple women everybody knows is weak and cowardly.
BK cannot have that in his own mind, he’s not afraid of taking on a male and killing him first.
The house was the target and Ethan had to be there. Driving around could be seen as BK making sure Ethan was up at that time and moving around.

Whilst I can't quite imagine it that way to the extent you have, I can imagine that knowing Ethan was in the house (but likely to be horizontal, in a dark room and vulnerable) was not at all a deterrant MOO. I do tend to think that if it was a fight he wanted he would have gone in before c 4.08am (by my calculations per p6 PCA). But I can imagine the thought process you describe, the feeling of dominance and power, that a killer might crave by killing 'the man of the house'.

 

[Justice101]

Slim pickings. There is no state public defender system in Idaho. There are only four lawyers in Latah County who are contracted with the county for public defender work. One of them is the coroner, Cathy Mabbutt. Another lawyer in her office also does public defender work and should be equally conflicted.

Source

I suspect the lack of public defenders is more related to population density than any real inherent shortage or judicial shortcoming. Go to a large city and you might have 100 times as many public defenders, but then again there are 100 times as many cases to defend.

 

[GA_Peach]

Defendant's response to request for discovery posted on case summary 1/30/2023

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/Summary/Case-Summary-Kohberger-013023.pdf

edit: added defendant's

Thank you for sharing. As I look through the case summary, I don't see a no contact order for Xana's mom, CN (or possibly CK). Am I just missing it?

 

[Justice101]

BK is a smart student but a stupid clueless criminal. I wouldn't give him credit for knowing about Ethan's jeep.

Not someone who leaves their knife sheath after stabbing people and couldn't keep their touch DNA off of it. Not someone who brings their cell phone 12 times near the home they are stalking. Not someone who drives their own car to their crime scene and messages a victim several times just a few weeks before allegedly killing her and her roommates.

Not even smart enough to cover his entire face at the murder scene. If the witness had just seen a tall lanky guy with a mask...well....there are a lot of tall lanky guys. Add-in bushy eyebrows and....well.....the devil is in the details.

Question:

And who looks at every detail?

Answer:

12 citizens sitting around a table after closing arguments.

Yeh, to me he is smart but stupid at the same time. Goes to the trouble of cleaning the sheath, but doesn't submerge it in alcohol to kill all the DNA in the nooks and crannies.

Thinks he is being smart by having no front license plate.. only to get new tags that have 2 plates front and back... but commits the crime with no front tag and so not Washington or Idaho. Dumb. He just reduced the number of white Elantra's by a factor of 90%.

Additionally, instead of leaving his phone at home when he stalked them and killed them, he turned it off as he was approaching making it even more suspicious and telling.

He's 10 times less smart than he thinks he is.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Slim pickings. There is no state public defender system in Idaho. There are only four lawyers in Latah County who are contracted with the county for public defender work. One of them is the coroner, Cathy Mabbutt. Another lawyer in her office also does public defender work and should be equally conflicted.

Source

What about the Idaho PDC?

About the Commission

pdc.idaho.gov

Roster:

Capital Defending Attorney Qualifications and Roster

pdc.idaho.gov

Capital Counsel Roster:

https://pdc.idaho.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/IdahoCapitalCounselRoster20230126.pdf

 

[Boxer]

I assume he was stalking at least two of the girls. If he followed them home late at night/early morning, when every one else was asleep. He could see, maybe when their lights went on, where their room was? I think Forensics may have found his semen on the bodies; not like a rape, but as if he'd stood over their dead bodies and masturbated. moo, moo. That's just a scenario I pictured, based on no facts, yet.

MOO he had cased the place plenty.
Don’t think it was that dark, kitchen light on - maybe was left on all night often.

 

[CGray123]

If he pleads innocent, IMO, the Defense will seek a change of venue. They will invoke the For Prejudice article by first hiring one of the consulting firms that do surveys of the public in that jury pool area. Barry Morphew’s legal team did it successfully.

You're right. However, venue changes are rare. The judge's decision in Barry Morphew's case was exceptional. Among the many factors that made it difficult to get a jury pool was the small size of the county in which the trial was set (about 18,000). The case was moved to a neighboring county with a population about 50,000, where the judge thought he could draw a jury pool sufficiently large to find twelve impartial jurors notwithstanding the publicity surrounding the case, which had been promoted by the District Attorney in ways the judge found concerning.

Kootenai County is the third largest in Idaho, with about 180,000 people, which should support the more common approach to venue change: to reserve ruling on the motion until after an attempt has been made to seat an impartial jury in the origninal jurisdiction.

For a typical rationale, see: Order on Defendant's Amended Motion for Change of Venue, People v Pankey

 

[Boxer]

The interesting thing about this is that Ethan had a very distinctive red jeep. That was parked in front of the house. There is no way BK missed it. Furthermore, Xana was the only one still moving around at ca 4 o'clock. So the likelihood of her having a guest over is even bigger, imo.

Either BK knew Ethan was there and did not care (maybe planned to kill only upstairs, maybe had a reason to believe Ethan was not a threat to him, etc) or BK was not sure if Ethan was there and decided to go in anyways (say, he often parked his car there even while he was at the frat and that he usually walked to the frat by 4 o'clock - BK did not see him leaving, but assumed he must have left by that time as per usual, that might have been reinforced if he saw Xana moving around alone; though I must say I don't understand how he saw anything as he was circling the neighbourhood far and wide instead of surveilling the house).

MOO

Driving around in his own pool
of exhausted thoughts, grievances and aspirations - faulty judgement.
Working up to it, he had to have gathered his knife and clothing. He had surveillance enough and was was shifting to action.

 

[CGray123]

Yeh, to me he is smart but stupid at the same time. Goes to the trouble of cleaning the sheath, but doesn't submerge it in alcohol to kill all the DNA in the nooks and crannies.

Thinks he is being smart by having no front license plate.. only to get new tags that have 2 plates front and back... but commits the crime with no front tag and so not Washington or Idaho. Dumb. He just reduced the number of white Elantra's by a factor of 90%.

Additionally, instead of leaving his phone at home when he stalked them and killed them, he turned it off as he was approaching making it even more suspicious and telling.

He's 10 times less smart than he thinks he is.

Negative emotions like anger, pain, and fear neutralize intelligence and impair rational thinking. E.g. Fuel in the Fire: How Anger Impacts Judgement and Decision-Making. My speculation is that BK experienced all these emotions before, during, and after this crime.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

The interesting thing about this is that Ethan had a very distinctive red jeep. That was parked in front of the house. There is no way BK missed it. Furthermore, Xana was the only one still moving around at ca 4 o'clock. So the likelihood of her having a guest over is even bigger, imo.

Either BK knew Ethan was there and did not care (maybe planned to kill only upstairs, maybe had a reason to believe Ethan was not a threat to him, etc) or BK was not sure if Ethan was there and decided to go in anyways (say, he often parked his car there even while he was at the frat and that he usually walked to the frat by 4 o'clock - BK did not see him leaving, but assumed he must have left by that time as per usual, that might have been reinforced if he saw Xana moving around alone; though I must say I don't understand how he saw anything as he was circling the neighbourhood far and wide instead of surveilling the house).

MOO

BBM. We don't know that Xana was the only one moving around at 4 am. Per the PCA, Kaylee was supposedly awake too.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

BK is a smart student but a stupid clueless criminal. I wouldn't give him credit for knowing about Ethan's jeep.

Not someone who leaves their knife sheath after stabbing people and couldn't keep their touch DNA off of it. Not someone who brings their cell phone 12 times near the home they are stalking. Not someone who drives their own car to their crime scene and messages a victim several times just a few weeks before allegedly killing her and her roommates.

Not even smart enough to cover his entire face at the murder scene. If the witness had just seen a tall lanky guy with a mask...well....there are a lot of tall lanky guys. Add-in bushy eyebrows and....well.....the devil is in the details.

Question:

And who looks at every detail?

Answer:

12 citizens sitting around a table after closing arguments.

Meh, I really doubt the bushy eyebrows make the case. I bet I could walk down the street in Moscow and see about a dozen men with bushy brows. The devil IS in the details, but the details that make a difference in terms of looks wasn't in the PCA, IMO.