ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 70

[NottaYutz]

I would suggest that he may have thought he did a great job of planning but I don't think his plan worked as well as he had hoped.

There is no way any person could every plan or prepare for taking 4 human lives. There was no assurances that the house he entered wasn't armed, he couldn't have known for sure that all victims were sleeping, that none would fight back or disarm him and detain or kill him with his own weapon, the dog was secured or could easily be secured and he obviously wasn't in a position to ensure there were no witnesses.

I don't believe he planned for four. I believe he planned for one, Madison, and the other three were just necessary clean up. MOO

 

[Artemus]

Does anyone think that a family member may have suspected BK involvement early on and contacted the FBI with their concerns?

 

[crumbcleaner]

Coffindaffer, ex FBI, suggests that the murder weapon will be recovered at some point either by someone out walking or hunting who finds it; or BK will tell LE where it is in order to negotiate his sentence to get the death penalty off the table if he is found guilty.

If found guilty at trial, why would LE be willing to negotiate with BK in the sentencing phase and take the death penalty off the table (if LE does decide to make this a death penalty case) in exchange for the location of the murder weapon?

IMO closure for the family, knowing that only the killer would know where the knife is and it will likely not be found otherwise. If BK thinks there’s no chance of appeal (based on how the trial goes), he might be willing to give a little to get a lot….his life. But I do think the family’s feelings on this will be strongly considered before any deal would ever be proposed. IMO but interested to hear others thoughts on this.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

She "thought" it was Kaylee. Neither the "playing with dog sounds" nor "someone is here" were definitively stated by DM to be Kaylee. Facts matter.

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

I believe screenshot is from page 4

Yes, facts do matter which is why I replied to the post that said Xana was the only person awake. We have no way of knowing Xana was the only person awake, so that isn't a factual statement. IMO, it is entirely possible (and likely, given DM's report in the PCA) that Kaylee was awake as well.

Facts do matter.

MOO.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

It might have been that Kaylee was in her bedroom playing with the dog, then heard something and went to Maddie's room to investigate.
There she was murdered and put by BK on the bed with Maddie.

But, on the other hand, wouldn't she shout?

JMO

Exactly. We just don't know, so no one can say definitively who was and wasn't awake.

 

[Followfacts]

BK was in a militia?

No, he wasn’t in the military but to me after having served myself in a fighter tactical unit, BK imo has a quasi military mindset, discipline, physical training, he wanted to join at one point, trying to get into police department, and his repelling attitude towards others, iMO BK wanted to kill and targeted the house.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Indeed. LE even goes to the point of noting that they think it was X who spoke, not K. I think they have more information to back up that K was in fact not awake. MOO

Actually, they don't say they think it was Xana. They say it could have been Xana.

 

[Zella]

Actually, they don't say they think it was Xana. They say it could have been Xana.

The fact that they make a point of potentially rebutting DM's recollection--the only time they do that--is significant, though. They clearly have reason to believe it likely wasn't K and was X. Otherwise, they wouldn't have added that clarification to the PCA.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Could you point out where in the PCA it is said Kaylee was awake?

Per PCA, p4, DM confirms all roomates were in their rooms by 2am with the exception of Xana "who received a doordash at 4am...". It's not stated that KG was awake.

Going by DM's report of what sounded like Kaylee playing with the dog and who DM thought was Kaylee saying "someone is here." I know we've been supposing it wasn't Kaylee, but Xana, but we have no evidence that it actually wasn't Kaylee. If we want to stick to the facts, then the PCA makes it more likely that Kaylee was awake than wasn't, based on the report they got from DM. Maybe DM was wrong, but we don't know so as far as I'm concerned it is not a fact that Kaylee wasn't awake.

IMO, we know for sure Kaylee and Maddie were awake at about 2.50am sending texts, as per MPD timeline. King Road Homicides | Moscow, ID

If you are referring to statements of DM's in the PCA (p4) -'what she thought was Kaylee playing with dog' - and then the "someone's here" comment, then the PCA contextualises the latter to suggest that the speaker could well have been Xana, IMO.

But could have been doesn't mean it was Xana. That's my point. The post I was responding to said Xana was the only one awake as if it was fact, but it isn't. It's only our opinion that Xana may have been the only one awake. We don't know.

Keep in mind, what I said in my post was "BBM. We don't know that Xana was the only one moving around at 4 am. Per the PCA, Kaylee was supposedly awake too."

The word "supposedly" matters, because I put that in there based on DM's statement of what she thought she heard.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

She described the figure as 5’10” or taller, male, not very muscular, but athletically built with bushy eyebrows,

Is it concerning that there's no mention of race, ethnicity, age etc.? Could be describing a 40 yo Hispanic male. idk moo

I think she could be describing any number of people. But my main point was that busy eyebrows isn't very specific.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

The fact that they make a point of potentially rebutting DM's recollection--the only time they do that--is significant, though. They clearly have reason to believe it likely wasn't K and was X. Otherwise, they wouldn't have added that clarification to the PCA.

I think the fact that they added that only means they're trying to be as accurate as possible. If they knew for a fact it was Xana, they would have said so, IMO. They didn't. They said "this also could have been..." indicating that because she was active on social media, it's possible it was Xana who DM heard. But it's not definitive, which is really my point. I have no idea who was awake and who wasn't. No one does, at this point, except maybe LE and the attorneys.

 

[gliving]

Exactly. We just don't know, so no one can say definitively who was and wasn't awake.

"The combination of D.M.'s statements to law enforcement, reviews of forensic downloads of records from B.F. and D.M.'s phone, and video of a suspect video as described below leads investigators to believe the homicides occurred between 4:00 a.m. and 4:25 am."

Read the affidavit on how investigators identified the Idaho killings suspect | CNN (page 5)

Phone records from BF led LE to place the time of homicides. It sounds like BF was also using her phone between 4:00 and 4:25.

 

[jepop]

Going by DM's report of what sounded like Kaylee playing with the dog and who DM thought was Kaylee saying "someone is here." I know we've been supposing it was Kaylee, but Xana, but we have no evidence that it actually wasn't Kaylee. If we want to stick to the facts, then the PCA makes it more likely that Kaylee was awake than wasn't, based on the report they got from DM. Maybe DM was wrong, but we don't know so as far as I'm concerned it is not a fact that Kaylee wasn't awake.



But could have been doesn't mean it was Xana. That's my point. The post I was responding to said Xana was the only one awake as if it was fact, but it isn't. It's only our opinion that Xana may have been the only one awake. We don't know.

Keep in mind, what I said in my post was "BBM. We don't know that Xana was the only one moving around at 4 am. Per the PCA, Kaylee was supposedly awake too."

The word "supposedly" matters, because I put that in there based on DM's statement of what she thought she heard.

BBM: Well I agree that we can't know for sure who was moving around and who wasn't, but I see the conflation of two different things, awake and moving around. Your second sentence reads as fact and that was my only issue. The PCA does not suppose that KG was awake. You suppose it based on DM's statements in the PCA. MOO

 

[Followfacts]

What quasi military groups was BK participating with?

Wanting to participate with Police force.. and the militarization often referred to in departments across USA.
At one time he was interested in the military. The knife sheath and military insignia, the knife itself K bar. The boxing, kick boxing training, physical discipline, even the authority and power over others imo is his TA status. Hierarchical, seniority and rank driven organizations. Quasi military.

 

[Nila Aella]

Thank you for sharing. As I look through the case summary, I don't see a no contact order for Xana's mom, CN (or possibly CK). Am I just missing it?

I do not see a CN or a CK on the no contact list.
JMO

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/Summary/Case-Summary-Kohberger-013023.pdf

 

[Sjöberg]

Is it concerning that there's no mention of race, ethnicity, age etc.? Could be describing a 40 yo Hispanic male. idk moo

I don't think so: she is a white girl in an overwhelmingly white majority area (89% white, 1.6% black, 1.3% native, 3% asian, 5.3% latino per census). Unless otherwise specified, IMO it is safe to say that she saw a white or white-passing person. Besides, I'd think it is really easy to clear up with a follow-up question, if needed!

 

[scapa]

"There are two likely scenarios that will lead to the discovery of the murder weapon used in the University of Idaho murders case, according to former FBI agent Jennifer Coffindaffer."

Idaho murder weapon will be found in one of two ways: Ex-FBI agent

Police previously said that a fixed-blade knife was believed to have been used in the murders of four University of Idaho students.

www.newsweek.com

While I applaud the energy that ex-FBI agent Coffindaffer has shown in being intervieed 3982 times regarding this investigation, I'm less impressed by the quality of info she's provided.

Why does LE need a murder weapon (or any other evidence) once BCK has already been convicted for the crime? Also, aren't some murder weapons found via LE searches for... murder weapons?

I get that there's a hot market for experts in the world of true crime -- but surely some experts are better than others...

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

ICYMI: here’s a (non-paywall) wonderful Spokesman Review article about Maddie’s dad & 2 grandpas getting angel wing tattoos to match Maddie’s tattoo.

“In the months since his daughter’s death, the Mogen family has become even more tight-knit, pushing out the noise of the frenzy surrounding the high-profile investigation and subsequent arrest of the man suspected of killing the students.

Instead, the family has spent time together and received tattoos that match the one Maddie Mogen had.”

A forever bond: Mogen family gets tattoos to remember, honor Maddie Mogen

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

You're right. However, venue changes are rare. The judge's decision in Barry Morphew's case was exceptional. Among the many factors that made it difficult to get a jury pool was the small size of the county in which the trial was set (about 18,000). The case was moved to a neighboring county with a population about 50,000, where the judge thought he could draw a jury pool sufficiently large to find twelve impartial jurors notwithstanding the publicity surrounding the case, which had been promoted by the District Attorney in ways the judge found concerning.

Kootenai County is the third largest in Idaho, with about 180,000 people, which should support the more common approach to venue change: to reserve ruling on the motion until after an attempt has been made to seat an impartial jury in the origninal jurisdiction.

For a typical rationale, see: Order on Defendant's Amended Motion for Change of Venue, People v Pankey

This is a very good point.

The complicating factor, however, is that the families of three of the four victim families have deep roots in Kootenai County, so finding an impartial jury with no connection to the victims or their families might be more difficult.

I, of course, continue to believe that Latah County will be more than capable to seat an impartial jury when it’s trial time.

 

[CGray123]

While I applaud the energy that ex-FBI agent Coffindaffer has shown in being intervieed 3982 times regarding this investigation, I'm less impressed by the quality of info she's provided.

Why does LE need a murder weapon (or any other evidence) once BCK has already been convicted for the crime? Also, aren't some murder weapons found via LE searches for... murder weapons?

I get that there's a hot market for experts in the world of true crime -- but surely some experts are better than others...

You're right. It doesn't take an expert to say that without BK's cooperation LE will have to rely on luck to find his knife .

But she overlooked a possibility. Has anyone in the area seen drones flying the route? They can cover a large area in a short time. Here's a programmable drone with a metal detector: Horus Metal Detector Drone.