ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 71

[SophieRose]

I've thought about how this new report of Ethan being killed near the door could fit in with the PCA info of Xana being the one found at the door. It could be that Ethan was attacked and fatally stabbed or slashed near the door, losing a large amount of blood in that area, and then moved further into the room before dying. Reports says that Xana may have been attacked last, and she was found decessed just inside her bedroom door according to the PCA. But if they found a large area of blood near the door or just outside the door, and it tested to be Ethan's blood, that could indicate he was fatally attacked at the door.

Here's Banfield and panel talking more about Ethan.

 

[Nova]

Sources: Idaho victim who was killed last fought back

Certain details conflict with what the coroner in the case, and police, initially said.

www.newsnationnow.com

New details from sources close to NewsNation shed light on how the Idaho college killings unfolded.

Kaylee Goncalves and Madison Mogen were killed first, and the sources confirmed that Ethan Chapin and Xana Kernodle were killed on the second floor afterward, according to sources.

They also said that Chapin was killed in the doorway of Kernodle’s room, and Kernodle apparently fought back. She repeatedly grabbed the knife from suspect Bryan Kohberger, and she suffered deep cuts to her fingers. Chapin apparently suffered a slash to the neck, according to sources.

Is anyone surprised by this report (except for the fact that sources are defying the gag order)?

All of the above was reported weeks ago by YouTube hosts that are not approved sources here at WS, so we weren't discussing what was already rumored.

(This is in NO WAY a criticism of WS' policies, for which I am grateful! I'm just mentioning that the order of the killings and the locations of the bodies has been frequently hinted at well before now. Much of the above was implied by Mr. Goncalves when he first spoke with the media.)

 

[Nova]

Maybe it a work place law that needs to be enacted. If business can’t control their profit motive to that extent.

I agree with you and others about women and minors working alone at night. (Heck, even men aren't safe if an intruder arrives armed!) I'd have no problem if small businesses were required to have at least two employees after a certain hour.

But there were four young women killed in the Austin, TX, "Yogurt Shop Murders" thirty years ago. (Only two were employees and the other two were relatives waiting for a ride home.) The case remains unsolved, IIRC.

So if we require two employees by law, the next question will be "How many are enough?"

 

[Nova]

Look at his look in the video of him being stopped in Indiana. Pretty scary face and glare.

True, but he had been stopped twice in less than a quarter-hour for something drivers are rarely pulled over for. (My Indiana relatives insist they've never even heard of a stop for "following too closely".)

I don't know, but maybe we'd all look annoyed under the circumstances.

 

[Nova]

IIRC PCA states the 11 times near the house were in the early morning hours and there was once during the day.

You are truly a fount of information, Boxer! Thank you very much!

 

[iamshadow21]

Also, what I don't get is why X and E didn't try to alert D and B. Or was their last act to save their lives by not alerting the murderer that the rooommates were there? It makes perfect sense to me that if X encountered BK in the common areas that she would run for E to protect her as the only guy in the home and so unfortunately sealed E's death warrant. You'd think that X would be screaming at the top of her lungs if she could but all D heard was whimpering? And I know if I was getting cut and pain like that I would be howling in agony. Did the murderer (presumably BK) injure both fast enough that all they could do was whimper at the end?

There have been a bunch of conversations on here about how people don't react how they think they're going to react when they're in a life-threatening situation. Some run, some scream, but a big percentage either don't accept what's happening or freeze up completely.

I know when I got mugged, I froze. They were punching the crap out of my friends. My boyfriend tried to offer my purse as a decoy when they demanded his wallet, which was in his back pocket which he was sitting on. Rather than accepting that handing over my purse was smart, I started blathering about how there was no money in it because I didn't want to lose it. When they went to hit my boyfriend again was when my brain went into hysteric mode and I started shrieking for them to please stop and not hit us any more. This actually worked, and they backed off, reassured us they weren't going to hurt us any more, and got off at the next stop. They were probably less sympathetic to my tears and begging and more worried that my screaming and crying was going to attract attention. We waited two more stops before we contacted the guard for help, and he was visibly annoyed and confused as to why we hadn't come to him immediately. The truth is we were all too scared to move, even though the danger was long gone. Oh, and by the way, we were useless witnesses. We went to the police. When we talked later, all of our descriptions of the attackers were different. Ratios of race, age, number of attackers. We were dreadful, despite the fact that none of us could stop our heads echoing with afterimages of moments of an attack that probably took under two minutes. Between two stations. A distance of only a couple of kilometres.

We can have all kinds of ideas about how we're going to react. I was attacked on a train, by a group of teens like myself, who used nothing but fists and as far as I know were unarmed, with a guard in the next carriage, on a familiar section of line, in broad daylight. I have absolutely no idea how I would react if I was being attacked in the middle of the night in my home by a stranger with an enormous knife, and neither do any of you. The only folks who know are folks who've had it happen to them, and most of them don't survive to tell us. So we can't judge any of them, from the four that died, to D who saw the attacker, to the other roommate and the friends who came over the morning the attack was discovered. None of them.

 

[Nova]

Edited to say: I don't think it has anything to do with intelligence or education. IMO, an innocent person would answer all of LE's questions regardless of where they went to the best of their ability. Whether or not they had a lawyer or in what manner they were arrested, MOO

With respect, there are hundreds, maybe thousands, of innocent people in prison who thought exactly that. I've never had a problem with police in my life, but at this point I'm not sure I'd tell them anything beyond asking for a lawyer, no matter how innocent I was.

And I'm almost positive I would refuse a lie detector test. Voodoo machine, except perhaps in the hands of the very best examiners. But how would I know the competence of the examiner provided by LE?

 

[MsBetsy]

Original article:

Sources: Idaho victim who was killed last fought back

Certain details conflict with what the coroner in the case, and police, initially said.

www.newsnationnow.com

I wish she hadn't tried to describe them at all, but will it really make a difference whether the coroner said "stab"or "slash" wounds?

Won't it be the ME who will testify? Will the coroner have to explain at trial why she made conflicting statements if she didn't perform the autopsies?

Also, that they were "likely" in bed does not mean it was a "fact" that they were all in bed at the time of the attack. Didn't LE also say "most" were sleeping at one time?

 

[Nova]

So his stolen car and cell phone would have had to become separated at 2:45 am, then later reunited and both returned back to his apartment.

Yes, and why would a car thief out to frame BK turn off BK's cell phone?

 

[MassGuy]

I wish she hadn't tried to describe them at all, but will it really make a difference whether the coroner said "stab"or "slash" wounds?

Won't it be the ME who will testify? Will the coroner have to explain at trial why she made conflicting statements if she didn't perform the autopsies?

Also, that they were "likely" in bed does not mean it was a "fact" that they were all in bed at the time of the attack. Didn't LE also say "most" were sleeping at one time?

The coroner is an elected official, and she was repeating what the medical examiner told her. It will be the medical examiner who will testify. Thank god.

 

[scoodyboo]

Not really. According to the article, the Supreme Court ruled on a civil suit toward the officer him/herself, not on the legality of not reading Miranda rights at time of arrest. JMO

Yes, so going forward, if Miranda rights not read, individuals can't sue officers. So there's no recourse.
(But maybe this is getting off topic.) Supposedly any self-incriminating statements made that were 'un-Mirandized' could be excluded at trial, but civil rights groups disagree. Miranda Rights Endure Despite US Supreme Court Ruling

 

[ktm44]

Also, what I don't get is why X and E didn't try to alert D and B. Or was their last act to save their lives by not alerting the murderer that the rooommates were there? It makes perfect sense to me that if X encountered BK in the common areas that she would run for E to protect her as the only guy in the home and so unfortunately sealed E's death warrant. You'd think that X would be screaming at the top of her lungs if she could but all D heard was whimpering? And I know if I was getting cut and pain like that I would be howling in agony. Did the murderer (presumably BK) injure both fast enough that all they could do was whimper at the end?

Hollywood would like you to believe that’s what people do when fighting for their lives but it it typically takes all a person’s energy and focus to fight for their lives.

It has been stated numerous times by family and LE that most died quickly so they likely had no time to react but it’s a disservice to the victims to assume they should react in a way we believe is appropriate.

 

[Nova]

Pretty sure an innocent person would not be A-OK with sitting in jail till June for a prelim trial lol. IMO.

Nobody is saying he should choose to sit "in jail till June". People are just saying he shouldn't choose to discuss the murders with LE without his attorney present.

If BK had any sort of alibi, his attorney could have mentioned it to the magistrate and asked for bail. Apparently, BK does not have an alibi, but talking to LE without a lawyer--in PA or ID--wouldn't change matters.

 

[Nova]

In the Jeffrey MacDonald case, they were able to tell the order of events by the location of blood stains, even back then. The location and type of blood evidence could have told them that the attack on E started in the doorway, for example. No idea if what Banfield reported was accurate, but it is amazing what they can do with forensics.

Of course, it's also possible something inaccurate was fed to a suspected leaker to catch them, but I'm more of an Occam's Razor kind of person myself.

(Emphasis added.)

Yes, but that was only possible because each of the four members of the MacDonald family (including the doctor himself) had a different blood type. I have forgotten the odds of that being the case, but they are very low and mentioned in FATAL VISION.

It's too bad they couldn't test for DNA back then, as MacDonald and his legion of supporters keep claiming the Army investigators screwed up (probably true) and the federal prosecutors concealed evidence (I don't know) to get that neat pattern of blood stains that supported the DA's re-creation of the crime.

If the only DNA of BK's found in the murder house is that touch DNA on the sheath, I expect his attorney will have a field day!

 

[Stratocaster]

Re: search of suspect's apartment in Washington....

I'm reading conflicting reports of 'stained partial pillow fragments' found, to 'full pillow soaked with red substance' found....

Did BK take, for lack of a better word, 'trophies' from the crime scene? With all the revelations about him intensely stalking the victims, I could see him taking 'trophies'

MOO

 

[Nova]

There have been a bunch of conversations on here about how people don't react how they think they're going to react when they're in a life-threatening situation. Some run, some scream, but a big percentage either don't accept what's happening or freeze up completely.

I know when I got mugged, I froze....

Thank you for the personal account. I don't think people here meant to judge DM negatively for the delay in calling 911. I certainly know I didn't.

Before last night's breaking news, most of us were just speculating that if the defense mounts a case, BK's lawyer will try to make something of it.

 

[SMK777]

Yes, so going forward, if Miranda rights not read, individuals can't sue officers. So there's no recourse.

It used to be very different and cases were thrown out altogether. Not sure this SCOTUS ruling was a good thing.

 

[Colorado303]

Except, Supreme Court changed that last summer:
https://www.npr.org/2022/07/03/1109...nt-be-sued-for-not-reading-out-miranda-rights

You still must have Miranda read before anything said can be used in a trial against you. The Supreme Ct ruling just says if cops didnmt read Miranda rights and you are acquitted you can’t sue the cops.

 

[Speculaytor]

Since 40+ cops broke down Mom and Dad's doors to arrest him, and given the crime he's suspected of, I'm sure they were careful to follow the rules. I strongly believe they mirandized him as soon as the cuffs were on.

I agree. So many officers, I doubt they would all forget that.

 

[Shadow@light]

Also, what I don't get is why X and E didn't try to alert D and B. Or was their last act to save their lives by not alerting the murderer that the rooommates were there? It makes perfect sense to me that if X encountered BK in the common areas that she would run for E to protect her as the only guy in the home and so unfortunately sealed E's death warrant. You'd think that X would be screaming at the top of her lungs if she could but all D heard was whimpering? And I know if I was getting cut and pain like that I would be howling in agony. Did the murderer (presumably BK) injure both fast enough that all they could do was whimper at the end?

IMO X did not scream out as it would and did protect the housemates. By screaming the house mates would had dashed out to find out why all the noise. It has happened in past crimes in Australia and America. The case in 1980's I remembered Father came home early morning to find his wife butally stabbed in the hallway , next to his child bedroom door, the daughter were asleep His lawyer defended him by saying his wife when confronted with the attacker made no sound so to protect the child, while police and people thought kid stay in bed while parents fight. The Dad was innocent. Years later, they caught the guy he confessed he broke into the house to steal money, attack the Mother in hallway she made no sound he did not know child was there. X made IMO that descion to protect and not expose her house mates to danger by causing a panic.