ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 71

[Dotta]

He is the definition of a coward.Having a large knife to use against mostly women when they are asleep drunk.You think he would have taken on Ethan at full stength without the knife?No way.

Absolute coward

-Tormenting women by his creepy behaviour,

- harassing students, who had misfortune to have him as a TA, with unfair bad grading - showing off his"imagined superiority".

Argh!
I feel anger even writing this post

JMO

 

[Ghostwheel]

Random thought. Suppose Xana runs and collapses in the little hall leading to her room. Not deceased. Ethan wakes up starts to move out of bed, killer steps into bathroom (why mention bathroom in PCA?) Ethan sees Xana gets down on floor says "Don't worry, I'll help you", killer steps out of bathroom, slashes Ethan with knife. He goes down. Xana might remain where she is and pass away, or tries to fight one more time to protect Ethan, maybe crawling over his body to end up in her room (all we know is that she was on the floor and that the officer saw her on the approach of the room).

If the killer did step into the bathroom, that would be a great place for shoe prints or DNA (assuming the killer got scratched or dropped sweat or the like)

All MOO, just thinking of places where killer DNA might not be mixed or as mixed with victim DNA

 

[ktm44]

Thank you for the personal account. I don't think people here meant to judge DM negatively for the delay in calling 911. I certainly know I didn't.

Before last night's breaking news, most of us were just speculating that if the defense mounts a case, BK's lawyer will try to make something of it.

I don't believe there is much to be made of it. It has been said multiple times that even if the roommate had done something differently, the victim's wounds were so catastropic that none could have been saved.

At this point, we still actually don't know what the roommate saw or heard except brief mention in the PCA and much of it appears to be backed by their phone records and within that information may be a lot more information on her perception of events that evening. I very strongly doubt that anyone rolled over and went to sleep believing that people were being murdered in their home.

Even if the situation played out as people have speculated, there aren't many college students that have discovered their roommates slaughtered on a Sunday morning and if we take the PCA literally, the sounds she believes she heard, in no way warranted a 911 call.

 

[maskedwoman]

Nobody is saying he should choose to sit "in jail till June". People are just saying he shouldn't choose to discuss the murders with LE without his attorney present.

If BK had any sort of alibi, his attorney could have mentioned it to the magistrate and asked for bail. Apparently, BK does not have an alibi, but talking to LE without a lawyer--in PA or ID--wouldn't change matters.

I'll go even further than that. He doesn't have to talk to LE to establish an alibi. That what a lawyer is for, imho. If he has an alibi that is solid, and she doesn't take it to LE, that means the real killer is still at large, the community is still in danger AND no one is looking for him anymore. Maybe I'm naive but I believe AT would be failing in her duty to her client as well as to the community if she didn't give them his alibi. Hearing that BK has a verifiable alibi should certainly give LE a wakeup call and I don't see how it weakens his case if it's real.

Let's assume for the moment that he's completely innocent and the he has been frequenting a nearby gym. And the gym has records. I personally believe if that were true, a gym employee would have already stepped forward to give him that alibi, but this is just an example. Maybe his phone died that morning while he was exercising. So the sudden reappearance was just when he plugged it in to charge after leaving the gym. It would make no sense at all for AT to let her client sit in jail until June when she could easily prove to LE where he was when the murders occurred. I firmly believe he would no longer be in jail if he had an alibi that would stand up. MOOooo

 

[Boxer]

(Emphasis added.)

Yes, but that was only possible because each of the four members of the MacDonald family (including the doctor himself) had a different blood type. I have forgotten the odds of that being the case, but they are very low and mentioned in FATAL VISION.

It's too bad they couldn't test for DNA back then, as MacDonald and his legion of supporters keep claiming the Army investigators screwed up (probably true) and the federal prosecutors concealed evidence (I don't know) to get that neat pattern of blood stains that supported the DA's re-creation of the crime.

If the only DNA of BK's found in the murder house is that touch DNA on the sheath, I expect his attorney will have a field day!

And I expect a guilty verdict. His DNA is on the sheath of a fighting knife next to the body of apparently the first victim.
They died of being stabbed by a large blade knife.
They were all apparently taken by ambush and deadly speed, his boxing is training for precisely that.

And that's fine.

In my textbooks, cowards run and hide. We may just have different points of reference.

JMO

MOO Attacking defenseless people is cowardly. But he was at war with the women I suppose, so he allowed himself to indulge in the idea he was dispensing justice.

 

[schooling]

The “if you’re innocent, you have nothing to hide!” is an unfortunate - and even dangerous - myth propagated by crime shows. Innocent or not, the prudent thing to do is remain silent. This is something any first-year law student will tell you. JMO.

I cringe every time I hear someone say "I have nothing to hide! I'll tell them everything! They can track all my movements and have all my records!"

Lots of innocent people with 'nothing to hide' have sat behind bars and continue to sit behind bars to this day.

 

[maskedwoman]

(Emphasis added.)

Yes, but that was only possible because each of the four members of the MacDonald family (including the doctor himself) had a different blood type. I have forgotten the odds of that being the case, but they are very low and mentioned in FATAL VISION.

It's too bad they couldn't test for DNA back then, as MacDonald and his legion of supporters keep claiming the Army investigators screwed up (probably true) and the federal prosecutors concealed evidence (I don't know) to get that neat pattern of blood stains that supported the DA's re-creation of the crime.

If the only DNA of BK's found in the murder house is that touch DNA on the sheath, I expect his attorney will have a field day!

I do remember that about the blood types. Yes, DNA would have been a huge help to them. Do you recall the suitcase open on the bloody bed with no blood inside it? McGinnis wrote about it, convinced he almost ran. Me too. There are many cold cases from that period that cannot be solved because police departments didn't have the procedures for preserving evidence that we have today. Fortunately, today we know better.

In this case, they will have a abundance of DNA from the blood, in case there are duplicate blood types. I agree that AT will work hard on his behalf if the sheath DNA is the only evidence of BK's presence. We will see. As much as X evidently fought for her life, bless her, I would very surprised if they don't find any evidence under her nails or on/around her.

 

[schooling]

Is anyone surprised by this report (except for the fact that sources are defying the gag order)?

All of the above was reported weeks ago by YouTube hosts that are not approved sources here at WS, so we weren't discussing what was already rumored.

(This is in NO WAY a criticism of WS' policies, for which I am grateful! I'm just mentioning that the order of the killings and the locations of the bodies has been frequently hinted at well before now. Much of the above was implied by Mr. Goncalves when he first spoke with the media.)

All of the above was shared MONTHS ago. On the day of the murders, in fact. The majority of what was shared was from sources who were 1 or 2 degrees separated from the people in the house. Most of the things shared have ended up in the PCA (DMs experience that night, discovery of Ethan's body) and this article. With the last remaining unreported tidbit being what BF recalled and where the two ended up sleeping that night.

I'm being purposely vague so I don't share anything that hasn't already appeared in an approved media source.

<modsnip - no link>

The reason that the day-of-the-murder info didn't catch on like wild fire is because the entire internet dismissed them as nonsense.
1) "DM waiting 8 hours was implausible"
2) "unconscious?" there's no way the 2 friends who discovered didn't see the stab wounds".

So in the week after the murders this info was adapted and then drowned out by speculation.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Random thought. Suppose Xana runs and collapses in the little hall leading to her room. Not deceased. Ethan wakes up starts to move out of bed, killer steps into bathroom (why mention bathroom in PCA?) Ethan sees Xana gets down on floor says "Don't worry, I'll help you", killer steps out of bathroom, slashes Ethan with knife. He goes down. Xana might remain where she is and pass away, or tries to fight one more time to protect Ethan, maybe crawling over his body to end up in her room (all we know is that she was on the floor and that the officer saw her on the approach of the room).

If the killer did step into the bathroom, that would be a great place for shoe prints or DNA (assuming the killer got scratched or dropped sweat or the like)

All MOO, just thinking of places where killer DNA might not be mixed or as mixed with victim DNA

I can't remember who, but someone said immediately after the PCA was released, what if it was Ethan who said "don't worry, I'll help you" rather than BK? I can't get that thought out of my mind. I do wonder if maybe it was Ethan DM heard, though I know that DM likely knows Ethan's voice. Still, I think this scenario above is an interesting one to consider.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Sadly, as long as humans are involved, an unjust result cannot be excluded 100%, primarily (imho) due to the fact that all the humans involved are imperfect and can make either unintentional errors, or act unjustly for their own self-interest. The group has talked a lot about lazy police who get tunnel vision, but prosecutors who cheat to fluff their win/lose stats are, in my view, among the most horrid people alive. And, anyone caught at it should not just be fired and disbarred - they should serve prison time.

There has also been a lot of talk on the threads about how the "real" killer could have framed BK, by leaving the sheath behind, stealing/borrowing his car and phone and returning them, etc., so I was interested in how many people are successfully framed by someone outside the justice system. I guess we may never know, since if they succeeded, the poor person who was framed may never have proved their innocence. MOOooo

If you google "list of wrongful convictions" or something of that sort, you'll get a ton of links, including a Wiki page that shares some details of people who were wrongfully convicted and why. You'll get a sense for how many were framed. It's not exhaustive certainly, but it shows that it does happen not as infrequently as we'd like to think. JMO.

 

[Nila Aella]

I'll go even further than that. He doesn't have to talk to LE to establish an alibi. That what a lawyer is for, imho. If he has an alibi that is solid, and she doesn't take it to LE, that means the real killer is still at large, the community is still in danger AND no one is looking for him anymore. Maybe I'm naive but I believe AT would be failing in her duty to her client as well as to the community if she didn't give them his alibi. Hearing that BK has a verifiable alibi should certainly give LE a wakeup call and I don't see how it weakens his case if it's real.

Let's assume for the moment that he's completely innocent and the he has been frequenting a nearby gym. And the gym has records. I personally believe if that were true, a gym employee would have already stepped forward to give him that alibi, but this is just an example. Maybe his phone died that morning while he was exercising. So the sudden reappearance was just when he plugged it in to charge after leaving the gym. It would make no sense at all for AT to let her client sit in jail until June when she could easily prove to LE where he was when the murders occurred. I firmly believe he would no longer be in jail if he had an alibi that would stand up. MOOooo

Do you believe LE would release him if he gave them a verifiable alibi or if LE has uncovered information pointing to someone else being responsible? Or would they wait until the prelim hearing?

I don't believe they would release him. JMO

 

[schooling]

If you google "list of wrongful convictions" or something of that sort, you'll get a ton of links, including a Wiki page that shares some details of people who were wrongfully convicted and why. You'll get a sense for how many were framed. It's not exhaustive certainly, but it shows that it does happen not as infrequently as we'd like to think. JMO.

I vaguely remember a study putting the percentage of 'wrongly convicted' as high as 3%-5%. Which is honestly mind blowing.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I vaguely remember a study putting the percentage of 'wrongly convicted' as high as 3%-5%. Which is honestly mind blowing.

It's even more troubling that some of those cases were due to someone else intentionally framing the person convicted. Five percent means one in 20 convictions. Way too many for my taste. MOO

 

[renarde]

Did BK enter the house before or after the Door Dash delivery?

Could Door Dash delivery person have seen BK's car? Driving by on the same street? Or already parked? Dash cam maybe?

If BK entered the house (before or even) after the DD delivery, how did he get past XK to go upstairs? Was she in her room at that point or in the common area?

<moo>

 

[CityKid]

They normally read Miranda Rights when slapping the cuffs on you and telling you that you are under arrest. They have to give the Miranda Rights as soon as they place you under arrest.
This is important because anything a suspect says in a police car on their way to jail can be used against them, but nothing they say in the car can be used against them if they were not read their Miranda Rights. The suspect could confess in the car and they couldn't use it without those Miranda Rights.



If he was caught driving out of his apartment complex that night then they would have video of him returning and this would help prove he was driving the white Hyundai Elantra and wasn't home during the murders or at home at 9:00am when the white Hyundai Elantra was seen again at the crime scene.

Is there a link to show he was caught on camera leaving his apartment building?

I wonder if there was footage from when the hit-and-run happened in front of his building. The crash was at 11:40 pm. It's also possible he didn't leave from his building right before the crime. I don't know if that's been established.

Just hours before the Idaho murders, another grisly scene unfolded outside Bryan Kohberger's window

It's unclear whether the crash had anything to do with the killings or was a coincidence of two bloody crime scenes not far from each other.

www.insider.com

 

[crumbcleaner]

I think attacking people in their sleep when they're very vulnerable and defenseless and not in a position to fight back is the textbook definition of coward, though. MOO

Yes!!! If all four had been awake and together, I think the outcome would be very different. He attacked at their most vulnerable & weakest. Coward indeed. IMO.

 

[gliving]

Did BK enter the house before or after the Door Dash delivery?

Could Door Dash delivery person have seen BK's car? Driving by on the same street? Or already parked? Dash cam maybe?

If BK entered the house (before or even) after the DD delivery, how did he get past XK to go upstairs? Was she in her room at that point or in the common area?

<moo>

There are three events are happening simultaneously at approx 4am. Door dash -- something waking DM -- KG making noise upstairs. It seems to me that BK was inside the house. <moo>

Read the affidavit on how investigators identified the Idaho killings suspect | CNN

Idaho officials have publicly released court documents -- including a probably cause affidavit -- in prosecutors' case against Bryan Kohberger, who faces four counts of first-degree murder and one count of burglary in the killings of four University of Idaho undergraduate students.

www.cnn.com

>>> This is with the exception of Kenrodle, who received a DoorDash order at the residence at approximately 4:00 a.m. (law enforcement identified the DoorDash delivery driver who reported this information).

D.M. stated she originally went to sleep in her bedroom on the southeast side of the second floor. D.M. stated she was awoken at approximately 4:00 a.m. by what she stated sounded like Goncalves playing with her dog in one of the upstairs bedrooms, which were located on the third floor.

 

[maskedwoman]

Do you believe LE would release him if he gave them a verifiable alibi or if LE has uncovered information pointing to someone else being responsible? Or would they wait until the prelim hearing?

I don't believe they would release him. JMO

I would greatly appreciate a lawyer weighing in on this question. For me, I try to take things in order. Because of how things unfolded, they arrested him before he had a lawyer, and before they interviewed him at all, so he never had a chance to provide an alibi that might have quietly redirected their investigation. If they have the wrong guy, it's going to be messy all the way around. 100%.

I'm also assuming AT met with BK before the hearing that day, even if for just a few minutes. If I were arrested for a murder I didn't do and had an alibi, the first words out of my mouth to my lawyer would be "For the love of God, I didn't do this. I have an alibi. Please help me!". If he gave her an unshakable alibi, I can't see AT saying "Great, that will really torpedo their case when we get into court in three years. Sit tight now." To me, she has an obligation to go to LE and say "I have something to check out and it's in everyone's best interests to give me a few hours before we all go into court on camera." If it checks out, I think they have to release him.

Now, if LE uncovered information on their own (after he's arrested) that points to someone else being responsible? I think that's the stuff that gives LE nightmares. If they are honorable and good at their jobs, I think they chase that down like crazy. And if it checks out, they have to release him. It would be discoverable, right? If they let him rot in jail with evidence in hand that excludes him as a suspect, he eventually sues everyone's butts off. I certainly would in his situation.

Every lawyer on here may show up and tell me I'm an idiot, but that's what I think. MOOooo

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Does anyone know where to find the Idaho requirements for what types of material the defence must provide to the prosecution ahead of time, and how early, etc?

Deug! I'm here too Don't know the answer to your question though. I'm guessing but not sure they need to if they don't have anything to disclose but if they do have something I believe they have to let it be known in discover before the trial?

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Rsbm

I think BK himself (knows he's guilty and) wants to watch them try this case.

I think it's in his nature to be a watcher. In his car, in a cafeteria, in the back corner of a bar, in a courtroom.

Trial will be entertainment for him, marginally less dull than his coursework. And he'll approach it with creepy detachment.

I can imagine his defense making sure he gets a fair trial, objecting vigorously, challenging DNA and digital evidence as unscientific, hoping to bore and confuse the jury. I don't see them putting forth an alibi or a SODDI defense. I hope he'll be adequately defended, convicted BARD and sentenced into oblivion.

Sadly, I suspect instead he'll sit patiently in prison, waiting for someone from the next generation of criminal forensics to put forth a thesis and dial up the prison, for the interviews he knew would come.

Clarice indeed.

JMO

ITA agree with your thoughts. I think he will consider this all eventful. JMO, MOO