ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 46

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Personally I am holding off with judging BK or making too many comments until we see the PCA. Police have said that they have his DNA at the scene and he owns a car seen near the crime scene. I want to know details. I saw a discussion here earlier today about him possibly being an uber eats driver. Frankly, his DNA presence in this case is not very compelling to me. College towns, lots of innocent possibilities. And driving near a crime scene? I've done that many times.

I'm not defending BK. I'm just saying that jumping on the dogpile when we know nothing but one police chief's vague description of the evidence is not very compelling. There is a reason our system requires transparency.
We are not the courts-of-law. Common sense leads to guilty. Sleuths are allowed opinions and we do not have to adhere to law system requirements. The Chief of Police said they have their man. Killers history, neighbors, students, living style...but mostly what the Chief said. Our legal system IMO is so twisted, unfair, biased, bought-for, that the legal system no longer punishes or finds criminals guilty who are. Plus, no transparency. All of the above leads to IMO guilty guilty guilty.
 
Well done!

What are your thoughts on him being pulled over during the drive?
I am not the person you asked, but i would say it was a coincidence. It is irrelevant.

Not everything that happened and seemingly have some relation to the case has any significance/relevance to it. Jmo
 
Such a cowardly little person. Is he now going for the insanity defense? Does he do headstands against the wall too? Never that bright, or smart, only cowardly. And since we are not the courts-of-law... guilty as charged little man. No psychiatric hospital, hard-core prison.
This has been reported as being UNTRUE.
 
I am not okay with 23andMe and Ancestry. I guess things have changed now, but I absolutely remember reading about a case where LE submitted a sample from a crime scene, not as LE but presenting themselves as a private citizen looking for genealogical relatives etc. They found matches and knew they had the right suspect, then built their case using legal means and legally obtained DNA from the suspect. I assume now that would not be permitted.

Are all of the samples that were obtained before the opt-in off limits to LE?
Both those sites only work with LE if they’re legally required to (l.e. subpoenaed). I remember what you’re talking about, LE access to genetic databases was very controversial when it first started.
 
So I was flattered to see my theory copied and pasted to Instagram almost word for word. So I thought about it a little more...and decided to put together a quick timeline that helps bolster it. I'm going to distill my notes down to just a few key dates....I'm hesitant to dump the 12 pages I have. sorry for the hacky copy and paste job. I had better intentions. But it is what it is at this point.

For those that don't know about my theory it's that LE knew about Bryan as early as November 15th. And at that point they started investigating him while keeping an eye on others. Once they started getting pretty confident that they had their guy....they stalled until they could get DNA back. Eventually having to turn to Familial.


___________

11/13 - The 4 Students are killed and bodies are discovered around 12pm local time.
In later reporting the Captain of Moscow LE said that by the time he got to the scene on this day. Investigators had already identified cameras in the surrounding area and were procuring the video. This moved a lot more quickly than people originally assumed.

11/14 - The 4 Students are identified.

I'm a believer that they were able to immediately find video of the Elantra leaving the scene or close to it. I also believe that they immediately found the Elantra license plate on video away from the crime scene. And I'm going to stretch and say they likely found video of the Elantra in the area on the days preceding the murder. And this is what led them to believe that the crime was
targeted.

11/15 - Police make a seemingly controversial statement.

"The City of Moscow Police Department would like to address community concerns about public safety. We hear you, and we understand your fears. We want you to know that we, like you, have been devastated and distressed by these young lives that were cut short needlessly. We determined early in the investigation that we do not believe there is an ongoing threat for community members. Evidence indicates that this was a targeted attack.
At this time, we have shared every piece of information that we can without compromising the ongoing investigation."

So what made them so confident that this was a targeted attack that they would keep reiterating over and over again that it was? Read on...

11/16 - Video Press Conference
I invite everyone to watch this press conference and listen to what they are saying. Listen to the nuance in their words. It's clear that they think they know who did it but at this point all they had was video. That the person was out there but not a danger. There's more that's carefully crafted.

11/14-11/18 - WSU Midterms Week
Not sure what the requirements are for advanced degrees. But at most schools mid-term week is dedicated to midterms and professors who have a heart don’t hold classes. soon as you were done with your midterms you could leave for Thanksgiving break. I will be interesting to know when Bryan left town for Thanksgiving.

Was Bryan already back in WA? Taking a flight out on Sunday shortly after the murders? Is that why police were so confident that there was no danger before walking it back since it made no sense.

11/17 - FBI joins Investigation

At the time a lot of people wondered why the FBI joined this investigation so early. I now believe that it was a combination of things. Their suspect was likely on the East Coast and they had no clue when he was coming back. They likely had super early circumstantial evidence, video included, but couldn't place him at the scene. And they needed help processing DNA evidence.

Also worth noting that Captain Lanier later said (on 12/15) that they had already worked the local cameras and as soon as they got more resources (FBI) they expanded and canvased outward.

11/23 - LE reaffirms that this was targetted


11/28 - WSU is back in session and we assume Bryan is back in town at this point.

11/30 - Prosecutors vs LE confusion


12/1 - LE tripples down that this was targetted
If anyone doubts that LE has the perp casing the area or has other evidence...this should put it to rest.

12/2 - 12/3 - The house receives numerous visits from Detectives after a lull in activity.
Things are picking up again from here. On the 3rd they were seen taking out bags of evidence.

12/5 - LE decide to start removing the victims personal belongings. To happen on 12/7.
It's pretty clear that they are confident at this point. Again, the public interprets this as unusual because no suspect has been named.

12/6 - LE, through a press release requests surveillance video taken from 3am - 6am from a list of 4 geographical areas.
We know from reports that LE had already been looking at videos for over 3 weeks at this point.
They also went out of there way to confidently clear a bunch of people and get rumors under control. Which resulted in some ire from the internet, community and family. This is more evidence pointing to them having their guy.


I believe at this point they had DNA sent out to the lab and they were fairly confident that Bryan was their guy. I think the request for video could have had a much tighter window if they wanted it to. But they didn't want to show their cards. How many times did they tell us - send us all info. we know what we are looking for and we'll filter through it?

I also believe that LE needed video from these areas because they needed to show that the crime scene Elantra was the same Elantra heading back to Bryan's house or the Elantra in whatever picture of the license plate they had. Otherwise the defense team could easily cite the 22,0000 Elantras. The picture/video of the Elantra's license plate was pulled from a place that could only be accessed by going through THESE NEIGHBORHOODS

12/7 - LE announce the Elantra. And they'd like to talk to the occupants.
Bryan Entin reports that LE has stated that the license plate is "Unknown". The car is a 2011-2013.

I believe that LE knew it was a 2015. But didn't want to tip Bryan off that they might have been on to him. I think at this point they were pretty confident that he was their guy...but they had that pesky unresolved DNA kicking around. That likely had to go through a Familial search. The 2011-2013 and 2015 models are similar enough that it wouldn't hinder public tips.

I also think this was their way of asking about Bryan without saying Bryan's name. Hoping that someone he knew or lived with come forward.


He later updates his Tweet with a link to the press release that's solely focused on the Elantra.

I'm also going to go out on a limb and say they were talking directly to Bryan through these words. Knowing who he was, what he was studying. They were hoping that he would come forward under the guise of helping and staying close to the investigation.

12/8 - Five Plain Clothed LE investigators show up to the crime scene. One of the 2 vehicles had a Washington plate.
This is my biggest indicator so far that this was the point where Bryan went from person of interest to suspect. And they brought in Washington investigators as their suspect lived in another state and they would likely have to arrest him there. They go in. Move around a bit. Come out an hour later. Empty handed. Make of this what you will

12/9 - The last day of instruction for the term
Mind you, this is the general calendar. I'm not sure if the PhD program operates on a different schedule or if Bryan had office hours of any sort.

If the FBI was planning on tracking someone across the country and coordinating it. This is the window of time where it would have needed to start happening.

The Cross Country Drive
This is where the timeline gets a little fuzzy as reporting is not really lining up. So we're going to guesstimate.

12/10 - 12/13 - Likely the Window Where Brian and his Dad set off on their cross country trip
This date is a window. It's essentially a 2 day drive . The last day of classes was on the 9th. If it's a 2 day drive we can assume that they left no later than the 13th as it would be almost impossible for them to be cited in PA a few days later.


12/12 - Statement from Captain Lanier + FBI
“We do have a lot of information. We are specifically keeping that information safe. We are not releasing specific details because we do not want to compromise this investigation. It is what we must do. We owe that to the families,”

"We want more than just an arrest. We want a conviction. We owe that justice to Xana, Kaylee, Madison, and Ethan"

– Moscow Police Capt. Roger Lanier.


12/12 - 12/15 - Likely the Window Where Brian and his Dad arrive.
This date is a window. It's a guesstimate based on what we know. If they left the day after classes ended and drove straight through they'd be there as early as the 12th. But we know they couldn't have arrived any later than the 15th.

12/15 - Brian Entin Reports the "22,000 Elantras" and another interesting tidbit

On this day a NewsNation report had an interview where Capt. Lainer where he said on the day of the crime Detectives had already located cameras on residences surrounding the crime scene. I whole heartedly believe that one of those cameras got them the Elantra (but no plate) and shortly thereafter an adjacent camera (as the team expanded their canvas) got them the license plate of the only Elantra heading out of the area.


I whole heartedly 100000000% believe that this 22,000 Elantra message was put out to put Bryan's mind at ease as he headed across the United States of America. That he would rest assured that 22,000 Elantras would take LE a long time to comb through and he could enjoy the Christmas Holiday with his family. Not only that....but LE had blundered (i believe purposely) and misidentified his Elantra and he was likely not even amongst the 22,000.

Arrive in Pennsylvania


12/16 - Brian and his Dad are cited at a Car Service Business

____________________

OK. So am I crazy? Maybe....

But if you take anything away from my theory....take away this. The 22,000 Elantra's announcement came during a time when the FBI was already following Bryan around and tracking him. If that's not an indicator that the message was to put Bryan at ease and that LE was deceiving him and the public...I'm not sure what is. They told us over and over again that they would not release information that would compromise the investigation.

Also, we've heard multiple reports that the DNA came back just in time to lock up a probable cause affidavit. So how did they manage to find Bryan without that familial DNA? As the FBI was on to him likely weeks before his arrest. I think this also points to the fact that they identified his car via a license plate pretty early in the investigation.

Lastly, I think the FBI followed him across the country because it was a cross state trip. Federal involvement needed. I think they tailed him 4 days before the murder because on or around 12/27 the DNA was back and they were trying to lock in their probably cause affidavit and this would be an out of state arrest. I think we'll come to learn that local police had been tailing him from the moment he drove into PA.



Thanks for reading!

They have been matter of fact the whole time minus the public is safe mistake. I believe them when they said bk wasn’t on their radar until 4 days before his arrest.
 
I'm not sure if this has been posted already, but gives good insight into how someone can function on heroin. Inside the secret lives of functioning heroin addicts | CNN
It can sometimes be easy to picture a drug user in the severe range but often they aren't (heroin or other drugs).

And this is interesting in relation to his perceived energy levels:

Kohberger’s behaviour noticeably changed after the murders of four University of Idaho students, a former classmate has revealed — describing how he went from “perpetually exhausted” to “chattier.”

Benjamin Roberts, a fellow doctoral student at Washington State University, said accused killer Bryan Kohberger became “chattier” after the murders of four University of Idaho students.

“I did notice he was showing up to class a little late sometimes, he always had a coffee in hand, he always seemed to be just perpetually exhausted,” Benjamin Roberts, a fellow grad student at Washington State University in Pullman, told NewsNation.

“Bryan seemed like he was on the knife’s edge between exhaustion and worn out and at the time it was extremely difficult to tell which was which,” he told the outlet.

BBM
He was probably exhausted from staying up all night, every night reading Websleuths, the Facebook group, the Reddit threads and the TikTok's to see if anyone was able to figure out who did it. I know I have been!
 
I believe if I were being hauled off from my parents' home in the dead of night by LE out of the clear blue and I had done nothing wrong, I would say things like, "Whaaaat?!?!?" "What is this about?" "What's going on?" "I haven't done anything!" "You've got the wrong person!"

I might even say that same stuff if I were guilty. Lots of people do.

What I wouldn't say is something like (allegedly), "Has anyone else been taken into custody?"

What that sounds like to my prejudiced ear is 'Yeah, I did it, I participated, I sure did, but I want you to think, true or not, that I might not be the only one involved. I'm casual; I'm cool. What else you guys got?'

BK didn't scream you've got the wrong person; he asked do you have all the right people (including me)? At least that's how I hear it, but, again, my ear is not objective.

BK may have an enviable IQ but that doesn't mean he can't also be a dodo head at the same time. Or maybe that was a good thing to say strategy-wise, and I just need help to understand why.

However, to me, it appeared he wasn't all that invested in being seen as innocent, and his question came off a bit like an unintentional confession.
I agree with a lot of this, especially the idea that just because a person has a high IQ, it doesn't mean they don't lack in some areas. A high IQ, combined with narcissism, can make a person overlook small things because he thinks he is smarter than others.

Or, his statement upon arrest could have been intentional and designed to lay the groundwork for questioning whether others were involved. Or, he could have been in the student's house before the murders and has been worrying something would lead LE to him.

And, I suppose there's always the chance he could have been discombobulated at 3 AM and muttered something without thinking.

It sounds as though he could be back in Idaho even today, so I'm looking forward to hearing the charging evidence.
 
Wow!

I wrote this yesterday:

Of course, is is far cry from your comprehensive logical factual-based chronology, but some points are fairly similar. Scary, isnt it?

You are onto something, i would only add that the police already confirned that they received tip-off on the car, so perhaps that was what triggered shifting the focus to BK. Of course thst may me a red herring, but as this was reported after the arrest, i tend to believe it is true. I think the tip-off on the car was first, video and images confirmed that car was in the area before and on the night of the murders, but NEVER AFTER.

Because of the information about the car, LE so quickly without hesitation eliminated the 'usual inner circle suspects' as none if them drives white Elantra. And as those eliminations were conducted during first week after the murders, I agree with you that LE were focusing on Elantra very early during the investigation, first couple of days.

I am also not sure that BK left WA for Thanksgiving break, as he may had scratches and bruises on his face, left by victims. He is loner, he may holed in his flat waiting to heal.

I have never followed a live criminal case even less sleuthing in my life before, but I am excited and (hopefully!) fast learner.
That is quite the timeline isn't it !!! Good job WS: Schooling. Love when facts are spelled out. Makes the sleuth all the wiser!

Here are some thoughts newby WS: Sandy007, chances are the killer wore a mask / face protection (multiple reasons) Possibly was not prepared to find 2 (Kailee & Madisen) victims in the upstairs bedroom!! If that caused noise or a stir, could be why there may have been such fighting / defensive wounds. Mr. Goncalves said his daughter was a fighter. Strong young woman. Brave. Being stalked. Was the killer planning on killing one and ending up with 4 murders, by situational chance? IMO. Things to think about.

It is important to always be kind to the victim's families. They are suffering thru unimaginable grief, sorrow and many lives changed forever. The most important thing about crime: how were people acting PRIOR to the killings, not after.
 
I'm not sure if this has been posted already, but gives good insight into how someone can function on heroin. Inside the secret lives of functioning heroin addicts | CNN
It can sometimes be easy to picture a drug user in the severe range but often they aren't (heroin or other drugs).

And this is interesting in relation to his perceived energy levels:

Kohberger’s behaviour noticeably changed after the murders of four University of Idaho students, a former classmate has revealed — describing how he went from “perpetually exhausted” to “chattier.”

Benjamin Roberts, a fellow doctoral student at Washington State University, said accused killer Bryan Kohberger became “chattier” after the murders of four University of Idaho students.

“I did notice he was showing up to class a little late sometimes, he always had a coffee in hand, he always seemed to be just perpetually exhausted,” Benjamin Roberts, a fellow grad student at Washington State University in Pullman, told NewsNation.

“Bryan seemed like he was on the knife’s edge between exhaustion and worn out and at the time it was extremely difficult to tell which was which,” he told the outlet.

BBM

Until--and if--we ever find out that he really had a heroin addiction, I'm putting that accusation down to the very human desire to share sensational news about a high-profile suspect.

I'm not saying those people aren't telling the truth. I'm just saying it's human nature to look back, and in hindsight, spot red flags that might or might not be accurate.

I think a lot of students could be described as tired and worn out.
 
Not directing this post at anyone particular but just because I’m ecstatic for justice to be served(which will take awhile, I know), I am and will be judging the crap out of BK! When LE stated they don’t want just an arrest but a conviction, I felt that so deep and I believe it wholeheartedly. This case has shook that small college town to the core and LE is coming in guns blazing. I truly believe a few things just happened to fall into place easier than expected, faster than expected and that my friend, is good ol karma!!! I’ll be judging and smirking on this guy for years to come. I am that confident we have the right guy! IMO
 
Speculation on my part:

First I apologize if this has.been discussed. I’m several pages behind the active posts/ page.

I’m reading discussions about the JBOX meal, thinking about DNA, X and E’s timeline, discussions about car with possible DNA inside. Thinking about these pieces lead into this speculation:

Is it possible that BK was driver for food delivery or in some way got X and E into his car to deliver them with the food? Or any combination of the above. Deliver food; deliver food with one victim or both victims. Then possibly waiting around to get into the home later?

He could possibly try to use that as a reason for their DNA in his car, or on the food bag or being near their home.

ALL SPECULATION AND OPINION ON MY PART. Just typing out loud as ‘food for thought’

No need to disagree. Scroll by if needed.
IMO, BK may have given E and X a ride home perhaps?
 
Until--and if--we ever find out that he really had a heroin addiction, I'm putting that accusation down to the very human desire to share sensational news about a high-profile suspect.

I'm not saying those people aren't telling the truth. I'm just saying it's human nature to look back, and in hindsight, spot red flags that might or might not be accurate.

I think a lot of students could be described as tired and worn out.
Definitely agree. I was more referring to not so much that the person gave information to the reporter, more that what they disclosed was more likely to be associated with heroin use than meth use. It's the absence of described behaviour indicative of meth use that suggests he wasn't using that drug, at least in any habitual way. Not saying he used either, just that it was interesting that he was described in this way. Like you said, tired and worn out is definitely part of the student life!
 
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