ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 11

[redswan]

I’d like to know the answer to this as well. To me it seemed low, but don’t let me pretend I’m an expert lol

Right! XD

 

[EncyclopediaBrownJr]

First post, so I hope I don't mess this up, and I apologize for the length but I just wanted to get all the comments from my head into one place. I’ve been watching and reading (though unable to keep up it’s moving so fast). JMO: I do not think that this was an acquaintance who just got upset. I do not think this was just a jealous boyfriend. It takes more than fortitude to slaughter four people in this style. The fact that an obvious suspect has not been identified means that these murders are different than the norm, and today's pc didn't dissuade me from my opinion, but ICBW & hope I am.

I think this guy is a prepared thrill killer/serial guy who has been watching and waiting for a while. He may have left a lot of DNA from the victims and a bloody mess, but the “mess” seems to have been limited to the areas where the murders took place, not all over the house. Here are some thoughts and what may be a plausible scenario.

It’s not his first killing. Animals, of course, but (and this is only a guess), there is also at least one human victim prior to this. Those humans would may be those unlikely to be missed (homeless, prostitute, etc.), taken so that he could practice his trade unnoticed. Obvs in another town, maybe another state. This killing, though, I think he wanted to announce his presence to authorities, show how smart and skilled he is, esp if he didn't get enough notice before. Four people-that's brazen, that's a big calling card. Maybe that’s why LE (via the families, etc.) used the “made a mess” statement to bait him, hoping he'd respond. He’ll love all of the focus, but maybe irked by that “sloppy” remark, because (his thinking) if he’s so sloppy, why no footprints in and out? Why wasn’t there blood on the doors? How did he murder four people so easily and leave no obvious signs for the two he left alive?

He’d have watched, waited, practiced. From the wooded area behind the house at night, from social venues where he was able to unobtrusively follow these girls. On social media. He’d have eaten at the Mad Greek to see them in person. Paid cash, of course. He’d have done several recons to make sure he knew their patterns. He may have even been in the house when they were gone.

He’d have a full kit packed -a small, unobtrusive backpack. Shoe covers, maybe a buzz cut, but not totally shaved head and hair net w/double-sided wig tape to scalp so it couldn’t fall off, OVOS gloves, mask (don’t want to leave spittle). I think he’d go early and on foot for most or all of the way. He’d wait in the wooded area behind the house, prep there, not wait in the house, because of risk of discovery. Easier to get in while they’re asleep rather than get out if discovered while they were still awake. Getting caught for a B&E would ruin his future plans.

I think he’d have gone in through the second floor sliding door after he was sure everyone was asleep, not through the first door with the keypad, even though he might know their code. I believe the first floor only has one possible exit. He would not let himself be trapped. On the second floor, he would have three potential door exits. Even on the 3rd floor, more options and he’s in good shape, so he could jump from the third story window or deck, if needed.

He’d go to the second floor bedroom first. E, the biggest and potentially undesirable victim. He'd cut arteries & vocal chords. Even if E woke up and fought, it would not be for long. Same with X to silence her, but she fought back. He might even have pre-cut duct tape for over the mouths. The police are saying no one was bound and gagged, but did anyone ask about adhesive residue? Or tape left over the mouths?

After he finished, he’d have wipes in his kit to clean gloves, suit, etc. & he’d make sure he had everything counted. That’s why he practiced. He’d put on clean shoe covers he’d brought. Sounds dramatic, but maybe even a hazmat suit or fresh pullover. No need to leave a blood trail in the hall if he can help it. He’d lock the door as he goes out. He’d even use a wipe to open the door and shut it. Why leave a bloody print? He’s visualized this so many times mentally, he is relatively calm.

On the third floor, he knows no one will hear him. He can elaborate there. Possibly a quick piece of tape over the mouth. (I think this may be where he focused/targeted. I wonder if one was posed or displayed a certain way? Something to single her out? Maybe an outfit?)

I think he skipped the first floor roommates intentionally. Only one way out of there, too easy to get trapped. Four is enough, and leaving two alive bought him time. He doesn’t kill the dog. Wouldn’t be the first time a dog has been spared (eg: Meredith Emerson).

Car would be parked a reasonable distance away, but I think he'd find somewhere to wait & watch, if possible,walk to car in daylight. There’s nothing unusual about someone going to their car in broad daylight, so why draw unnecessary attention. Besides, if he watched, he’d get to see how this unfolds. If I were him, I’d know that LE would be looking for nighttime video. Daylight where no one clocks what they’ve seen would be smarter. Maybe a clean change of clothes hidden someplace?
The cops will investigate predictably (most obvious first), so he will have time to distance himself.

Everyone wonders why no one heard anything, but my thoughts: First floor is built into the ground, so silencing effect. Add in: Alcohol. Asleep. White noise machines. Headphones. And the ability to sleep through a lot when you live with four or five people. Sounds like no one saw blood in the hallways. The first floor roommates sleep late, so hours before they realize there is a problem, and once they do think there’s a problem, it’s not like they’ll suspect a murder right away. He’s got quite a few hours after dawn. Might have even left a camera or mic in the house. By the time LE start to put the pieces together, he will have moved on. I think that’s why the FBI BAU are on site - and called pretty early, too. Again, all just my opinion/imagination/too many movies/books.

I agree with some of the opinions in your post but other's i'm skeptical. I don't see this guy as some kind of delta force operator of the murder world. I think he tries to be tactical, but not to this extent.

and i'm reminded of that stabbing murder, I believe it was in kansas or missouri...the two brothers who stabbed and killed most of their family. They just ran through their home and butchered any family member they could butcher. It can certainly be an acquaintance.

 

[Anonymom]

In regards to the red stains on the outside wall being blood or heating oil. A poster replied that the home did not use heating oil, but I don't recall that this information was verified. The following website shows that less than 2% of houses in Idaho use heating oil. Heating oil is not common in the west, but it is available. I just don't know that much about it. My question: I assume that heating oil is delivered to a property and stored in a tank similar to propane. Is this correct? If so, wouldn't a heating oil tank be visible in some of the photos of the exterior of the home?

Idaho: house heating fuel share by type | Statista

In 2022, utility gas was the most popular residential heating fuel type in Idaho.

www.statista.com

 

[dizzychick]

how do investigators isolate blood from the killer if he/she cuts themself from the victim's blood? I have always wondered that in a crime scene where there are copious amounts of blood loss?

 

[gliving]

The 2nd PC let us know that the surviving roommates thought someone on the 2nd floor was passed out and not waking up, called friends over, then they all called 911 together. Friends didn't rouse the surviving roommates, it was the other way around. It has not been released what the roommates saw exactly, why they called friends first, why they thought someone was passed out, etc.

Yes! It's suprising that with all the friends at the crime scene, we haven't heard a word from anyone about what they saw. It seems 'mum's the word'.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Nice and detailed. He may also insert himself into the fold somehow by posting in related forums.

My opinion.

I thought about that as I was writing it. It kind of scares me that my imagination can go into that detail, and hope I'm wrong in every way, but this just reminds me of too many other things.

 

[redswan]

In regards to the red stains on the outside wall being blood or heating oil. A poster replied that the home did not use heating oil, but I don't recall that this information was verified. The following website shows that less than 2% of houses in Idaho use heating oil. Heating oil is not common in the west, but it is available. I just don't know that much about it. My question: I assume that heating oil is delivered to a property and stored in a tank similar to propane. Is this correct? If so, wouldn't a heating oil tank be visible in some of the photos of the exterior of the home?

Idaho: house heating fuel share by type | Statista

In 2022, utility gas was the most popular residential heating fuel type in Idaho.

www.statista.com

I believe that was confirmed to be blood and the house uses electrical

 

[debirlfan]

I agree. Killer(s) really had no way of knowing 100% if they were actually asleep, scrolling on phones or lying awake but with their eyes closed. S/he was willing to accept the risk of being caught or someone fighting back in order to complete the kills.

Or, it was someone who could come up with at least a somewhat plausible excuse for being in the house. Like a friend who had the key code claiming they'd just got in an argument with a roommate and needed a place to crash, but didn't want to wake anyone up.

 

[Bodhi]

In regards to the red stains on the outside wall being blood or heating oil. A poster replied that the home did not use heating oil, but I don't recall that this information was verified. The following website shows that less than 2% of houses in Idaho use heating oil. Heating oil is not common in the west, but it is available. I just don't know that much about it. My question: I assume that heating oil is delivered to a property and stored in a tank similar to propane. Is this correct? If so, wouldn't a heating oil tank be visible in some of the photos of the exterior of the home?

Idaho: house heating fuel share by type | Statista

In 2022, utility gas was the most popular residential heating fuel type in Idaho.

www.statista.com

No. At least not in New England. Oil tanks are inside the house in the basement, generally.
In northern New England, municipal gas networks are rare. It is common to have good size natural gas tanks outside in the yard, usually some distance from the home. Smaller gas tanks for a stove stand upright against the house.

 

[redswan]

how do investigators isolate blood from the killer if he/she cuts themself from the victim's blood? I have always wondered that in a crime scene where there are copious amounts of blood loss?

I think they can see if blood is mixed that it is mixed from two different individuals if that is what you mean

 

[MoveToTheBeat]

Residential plans are always out of date. Remodels don't get updated when they're done. And that is not an architectural set so it wasn't intended for everything to be included like a full set of blueprints. This is just a floor plan, just general information. The 3rd floor stairs would be implied on the 2nd floor construction drawings as it lands within one of the existing floor plan rooms - I line the stairs up to the foyer. Seriously, the fact that someone was actually able to find one surprises me! Good Job Daily Mail!

There is an updated blueprint from the landlord. The numbers on the blueprint correlates with the photos of every room in the house. See attached files.
Link to Landlord's photos are below:

1122 King Rd, Moscow, ID 83843 | Zillow

1122 King Rd, Moscow ID, is a Single Family home that contains 3120 sq ft.It contains 6 bedrooms and 3 bathrooms. The Zestimate for this Single Family is $451,100, which has decreased by $47,374 in the last 30 days.The Rent Zestimate for this Single Family is $2,996/mo, which has increased by...

www.zillow.com

 

[otto]

What was confirmed there? That says where the victims were, what I am saying is that just because the two surviving roommates where sleeping downstairs that does not mean one of their actual bedrooms was downstairs. If you look at pictures and match it up with the floor plan the landlord released you will be able to see that both of the 2nd floor bedrooms were occupied MOO

This is the second floor in the news, showing two victims in Xana's bedroom near the stairs ... off the living room.



This is Xana's bedroom off the living room, near the stairs. Drawing is rotated 180.

 

[L.laricina]

Yes! It's suprising that with all the friends at the crime scene, we haven't heard a word from anyone about what they saw. It seems 'mum's the word'.

I would say that, first and foremost, they are terrified. Second, two of their surviving friends/peers were in the "target area". They have no idea if they were actually targets or not, and this killer is at large so they are probably listening to LE who is telling them to stay quiet and not jeopardize LE's work to catch the killer.

 

[Garshin]

In regards to the red stains on the outside wall being blood or heating oil. A poster replied that the home did not use heating oil, but I don't recall that this information was verified. The following website shows that less than 2% of houses in Idaho use heating oil. Heating oil is not common in the west, but it is available. I just don't know that much about it. My question: I assume that heating oil is delivered to a property and stored in a tank similar to propane. Is this correct? If so, wouldn't a heating oil tank be visible in some of the photos of the exterior of the home?

Idaho: house heating fuel share by type | Statista

In 2022, utility gas was the most popular residential heating fuel type in Idaho.

www.statista.com

They are often buried underground but there would have to be some sort of vent and fill pipe coming out of the ground which I don't see anywhere. I'm wondering if the pipe is simply left over from the numerous shoddy renovations the house has had and the fill and vent were removed. I have no idea if that's the case obviously, just throwing it out there.

 

[Mayboy1998]

In this clip as well as the today’s press release, LE states they heard about the possibility of a stalker from “ one of their own interviews “ so it appears there may be more to it then just a rumor from Mark Berman.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

I've seen a lot of posts about the release of the 911 recording. IMO, it is exempt from FOIA right now, because of these two statutes. Even if the media were to try taking it to court, the court--if they even agreed to even hear the case—has to apply Idaho State Laws. The court merely interprets the law, based on court precedent, but legislation is the “law of the land”. That is why codification is so important.

Public Records Act:
Section 74-102 – Idaho State Legislature

Relevant definitions (see definition for "Investigatory record" and “Writing”):
Section 74-101 – Idaho State Legislature

Exemptions (pretty sure LE can keep the 911 call wrapped up for a while):
Section 74-124 – Idaho State Legislature

And info regarding the car search. I saw a number of comments in previous threads about the vehicle exception / warrantless searches. True, under certain conditions and depending on the state, cars can be searched without a warrant (4th Amendment rights are the floor, not the ceiling), but that only applies to cars that are being driven. Collins v. Virginia, SCOTUS ruled that the 4th Amendment vehicle exception doesn't give law enforcement permission to search vehicles parked 'within the curtilage of a home'. Important difference, and may have been the reason for the delay (although one would think the ISP would have included that car in the search warrants originally, but if it’s not in the warrant, they can’t search it).

Police Can't Search Car in Driveway Without Warrant - FindLaw

 

[livewiiiiire]

Yes! It's suprising that with all the friends at the crime scene, we haven't heard a word from anyone about what they saw. It seems 'mum's the word'.

It seems there is a reason for it. I go back and forth between it being important to the investigation, and to it being *not* important, they're trying to protect innocent young people. I also don't see what benefit that releasing the 911 call/what they all saw would really have, besides curing public curiosity MOO

 

[Curious Me]

...and i'm reminded of that stabbing murder, I believe it was in kansas or missouri...the two brothers who stabbed and killed most of their family.

Are you thinking of the two brothers from Broken Arrow, Oklahoma? The older sister and the baby were the only ones to survive.​

GUILTY - OK - Five Bever family members slain in their Broken Arrow home, 22 July 2015

One of two brothers charged in the grisly slayings of five family members in their Broken Arrow home attempted to commit suicide while incarcerated in the Tulsa Jail, according to records. Robert Bever attempted to hang himself by tying a sheet around his neck and sleeping boat, propping the...

www.websleuths.com

 

[otto]

There is an updated blueprint from the landlord. The numbers on the blueprint correlates with the photos of every room in the house. See attached files.
Link to Landlord's photos are below:

1122 King Rd, Moscow, ID 83843 | Zillow

1122 King Rd, Moscow ID, is a Single Family home that contains 3120 sq ft.It contains 6 bedrooms and 3 bathrooms. The Zestimate for this Single Family is $451,100, which has decreased by $47,374 in the last 30 days.The Rent Zestimate for this Single Family is $2,996/mo, which has increased by...

www.zillow.com

These stairs show something slighty different from the drawings. This is the entrance to Xana's bedroom. Zillow, picture 11.

 

[Karin1974]

<modsnip>

Couple of questions I’d like to know the answer to -
How did Kaylee’s sister get hold of the neighbours ring camera footage & does LE have that now?
Why was only one of the 4 x cars parked in front of the residence searched?

Lastly, MOO, the killer did not take the time to lock doors behind him, he’s just stabbed 4 x people to death, I believe it would be highly unlikely whether wearing gloves or not, that he stopped to lock doors on the way out & I believe he left that sliding kitchen door open on his way out.