ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 11

[ss90]

That is up to the state. I am previous LE and you are allowed to dismiss EMS when death is readily apparent and obvious. Granted that applies to my States laws, unsure of Idaho statutes.

EDIT : Idaho Statutes do not require EMS to declare death.

Section 19-4301A – Idaho State Legislature

legislature.idaho.gov

Section 19-4301 – Idaho State Legislature

legislature.idaho.gov

Them being dead, at that point, such a long time I think it would be quite obvious no medical assistance is needed and it would likely do damage to the crime scene. I think rigor mortis would be hitting already.

 

[GGbankster]

Well, in this case apparently E's brother lives very close by. I could definitely see the initial thought being along the lines of: "@#$&@, they ran over to meet the brother, and forgot to turn off the blankblank alarm!" - then when the brother denies seeing them, THEN they go check on the other roommates. Remember, downstairs roommates may have partied the night before, too, and might have been half asleep and/or hung over.

That makes sense, I just didn’t see or read anywhere that it was Ethan’s brother who was called for help/assistance by surviving roommates. There was also conflicting reports when the brother got there.

 

[elmomom]

Definitely, since all of them on 2nd and 3rd floor had windows to the back, but the surviving friends had windows to the front. I at least suspect that the killer got in from the sliding door or the window in the kitchen, to the right of the sliding door seeing the house from the outside. The forensics were very interested in that window it seems like.

Based on some photos posted last night where investigators were very interested in the kitchen window as well as the door, I was reminded that I saw a photo at one point that had an overturned potted plant with spilled dirt on the kitchen counter. I cannot find it anywhere, does anyone else remember this, or is my mind playing tricks on me?

This is interesting...
There are pictures attached.

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

I noticed that too, evidently a report isn’t written for every call.
Why is there such a huge gap in the Moscow Police Log
from Dec 30, 2021-Oct 24 2022?
This may be a good place to look for cops being called for stalking?
This log does have serious crimes- there is a log record of Homicide Nov 13 Kings Road

MPD Press Log 11/22/2022

www.ci.moscow.id.us

Interesting gap - I know they were available because I’ve read them daily (they don’t publish on the weekend, so those are added Monday) for as long as they’ve been available. I’m suspecting they just get archived; it seems to me they should be easily available to anyone submitting a Public Records Request:

MPD Public Records Request | Moscow, ID

MPD Public Records Request information and form

www.ci.moscow.id.us

The DALs can be sent via email. On the Request form, check Other & give the date range of the Daily Activity Logs you’re interested in.

I explained earlier that field notes/reports are done for every ACT call but Reports as reflected on the DALs are generally for crimes, state accident reports, & the like.

Moo

 

[Sjöberg]

I scanned through some of the Moscow Police logs today, just to have a look what stands out on the week before and the three weekends before the murder. Some interesting ones here:

Exactly a week before, MPD Press Log 11/6/2022:
22-M09659 Unconscious Person
Incident Address: IDAHO AVE; Pi Beta Phi
MOSCOW ID 83843
Disposition:
Time Reported: 01:35
Cad Comments: Complaint of 19-year-old female, not Conscious, Breathing. EMS and Officers responded. No report.

22-M09660 Suspicious Person/Circumstance
Incident Address: 700 blk DEAKIN AVE
MOSCOW ID 83843
Disposition: ACT
Time Reported: 01:45
Cad Comments: Complaint of male being inappropriate. Officer responded, no report.

22-M09663 Burglary
Incident Address: 700 blk E 1ST ST
MOSCOW ID 83843
Disposition: ACT
Time Reported: 02:02
Cad Comments: Complaint of female who walked into Rp’s house. Officers responded, no report.

Two weeks before, MPD Press Log 10/30/2022:
22-M09404 Other Law Enforcement Calls
Incident Address: UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO
MOSCOW ID 83843
Disposition: ACT
Time Reported: 16:33
Cad Comments: Request to speak with officer about another student who made Rp uncomfortable. Officer contacted. No report.

22-M09417 Suspicious Person/Circumstance
Incident Address: E 6TH ST; JOHNS ALLEY
MOSCOW ID 83843
Disposition: UTL
Time Reported: 23:33
Cad Comments: Caller reporting that there is a vehicle occupied x3 at least that has been driving around the area shooting airsoft guns

Also a lot of domestic stuff calls, inc this two weeks before on 29th:

22-M09358 Civil Calls
Incident Address: 1200 blk WALENTA DR
MOSCOW ID 83843
Disposition: ACT
Time Reported: 18:50
Cad Comments: RP says her ex is kicking her out of the apartment. Would like an officer to respond to make sure things don't get out of hand. Officer responded. No report.

And then some odd ones like these two on the 7th (the language of the second one, wtf. Who is Brian??)

22-M09717 Suspicious Person/Circumstance
Incident Address: 400 blk SPOTSWOOD ST
MOSCOW ID 83843
Disposition: ACT
Time Reported: 17:51
Cad Comments: Rp reporting an egg was left at his door with strange writing on it. No report.

22-M09688 Disorderly Conduct
Incident Address: 300 blk S MAIN ST
MOSCOW ID 83843
Disposition: ACT
Time Reported: 02:05
Cad Comments: Brian is having a fit below his apt in Moscow square. Officers responded, no report.

Edit was adding Maps links of report locations for convenience (U of I is approx, as building was not specified)

 

[debirlfan]

That makes sense, I just didn’t see or read anywhere that it was Ethan’s brother who was called for help/assistance by surviving roommates. There was also conflicting reports when the brother got there.

Maybe the brother, maybe someone else they thought E and X might be with. Or if they didn't know E stayed over, they might have assumed she'd gone to be with him. I can envision a lot of reasons for not wanting to call the police until they were absolutely sure there was something very wrong.

 

[annpats]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

Do you think the sudden dark afternoons and clocks going back can potentially bring on a sort of psychosis of sorts in people predisposed to that behaviour? Does it push them over the edge?

 

[inkndaisies]

I scanned through some of the Moscow Police logs today, just to have a look what stands out on the week before and the three weekends before the murder. Some interesting ones here:

Exactly a week before, MPD Press Log 11/6/2022:
22-M09659 Unconscious Person
Incident Address: IDAHO AVE; Pi Beta Phi
MOSCOW ID 83843
Disposition:
Time Reported: 01:35
Cad Comments: Complaint of 19-year-old female, not Conscious, Breathing. EMS and Officers responded. No report.

22-M09660 Suspicious Person/Circumstance
Incident Address: 700 blk DEAKIN AVE
MOSCOW ID 83843
Disposition: ACT
Time Reported: 01:45
Cad Comments: Complaint of male being inappropriate. Officer responded, no report.

22-M09663 Burglary
Incident Address: 700 blk E 1ST ST
MOSCOW ID 83843
Disposition: ACT
Time Reported: 02:02
Cad Comments: Complaint of female who walked into Rp’s house. Officers responded, no report.

Two weeks before, MPD Press Log 10/30/2022:
22-M09404 Other Law Enforcement Calls
Incident Address: UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO
MOSCOW ID 83843
Disposition: ACT
Time Reported: 16:33
Cad Comments: Request to speak with officer about another student who made Rp uncomfortable. Officer contacted. No report.

22-M09417 Suspicious Person/Circumstance
Incident Address: E 6TH ST; JOHNS ALLEY
MOSCOW ID 83843
Disposition: UTL
Time Reported: 23:33
Cad Comments: Caller reporting that there is a vehicle occupied x3 at least that has been driving around the area shooting airsoft guns

Also a lot of domestic stuff calls, inc this two weeks before on 29th
22-M09358 Civil Calls
Incident Address: 1200 blk WALENTA DR
MOSCOW ID 83843
Disposition: ACT
Time Reported: 18:50
Cad Comments: RP says her ex is kicking her out of the apartment. Would like an officer to respond to make sure things don't get out of hand. Officer responded. No report.

And then some odd ones like these two on the 7th (the language of the second one, wtf. Who is Brian??)
22-M09717 Suspicious Person/Circumstance
Incident Address: 400 blk SPOTSWOOD ST
MOSCOW ID 83843
Disposition: ACT
Time Reported: 17:51
Cad Comments: Rp reporting an egg was left at his door with strange writing on it. No report.

22-M09688 Disorderly Conduct
Incident Address: 300 blk S MAIN ST
MOSCOW ID 83843
Disposition: ACT
Time Reported: 02:05
Cad Comments: Brian is having a fit below his apt in Moscow square. Officers responded, no report.

Interesting findings. I’m sure there have been reports of people taking down the posters re this incident too. Not incredibly suspicious but worth noting I guess. Can’t remember if I read it here or elsewhere - did you find that also?

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I made a mistake, I wanted to write they were stabbed, not slashed.

The Daily Mail articled did use word the slasher in the article, freaky...

 

[inkndaisies]

Has it been released when the next press conference is?

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Been to these places. Usually business team building crowd out for laughs.

I can see the fun for sure! Are there a few of these in town does anyone know? I imagine all kinds go there too (students, business folks, friends).

If this was an organized killer could be a white collar suspect highly organized, meticulous who can still be a hunter. Lots of possibilities really here.

 

[layer]

Do you think the sudden dark afternoons and clocks going back can potentially bring on a sort of psychosis of sorts in people predisposed to that sort of behaviour? Does it push them over the edge?

That's interesting, the time changes totally screw me up.

 

[annpats]

Suspicious Person/Circumstance
Incident Address: 400 blk SPOTSWOOD ST
MOSCOW ID 83843
Disposition: ACT
Time Reported: 17:51
Cad Comments: Rp reporting an egg was left at his door with strange writing on it. No report.

Well, I hope that is just high-jinx or a joke from drunken college kids... otherwise that's a weird one.

I wonder what the writing on the egg said?

I'm not sure If would have called police for that, but each to their own....

 

[seasideForest]

@KonaHonu and others

On the topic of LE versus EMS arriving first, see italicised sentence below. On the media thread: ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Died in Apparent Homicide, Moscow, 13 Nov 2022 ****Media Thread**** NO DISCUSSION

• 11:58AM [20] - 911 CALL - LE respond to "a report of an unconscious person" (later verified to be one of the deceased [30]); multiple people spoke with dispatch before LE arrival [61]
• [TIME?] - FIRST RESPONDERS ARRIVE - First responders "discovered four individuals who were deceased" [20] - EC was found on floor of second level [36]; two victims found on 2nd floor; two on 3rd floor [60@5:29]; officers describe a bloody crime scene, "especially on upper floors of the house" [37]; fire and EMS were also on scene but did not go into residence or transport anyone out[1]
• ~12PM - coroner informed of 4 homicides [45@0:15]

Thanks @wnk for research and detailed timeline. For anybody who is interested, wnk includes the exact source of all details in their post, eg. footnote [1] for italicised information. That is why I thought it was reasonably accurate and remembered as "LE went in, EMS arrived later and weren't needed" although admittedly my memory distorted that somewhat. It really should have been "LE went into residence, EMS didn't".

MOO

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I scanned through some of the Moscow Police logs today, just to have a look what stands out on the week before and the three weekends before the murder. Some interesting ones here:

Exactly a week before, MPD Press Log 11/6/2022:
22-M09659 Unconscious Person
Incident Address: IDAHO AVE; Pi Beta Phi
MOSCOW ID 83843
Disposition:
Time Reported: 01:35
Cad Comments: Complaint of 19-year-old female, not Conscious, Breathing. EMS and Officers responded. No report.

22-M09660 Suspicious Person/Circumstance
Incident Address: 700 blk DEAKIN AVE
MOSCOW ID 83843
Disposition: ACT
Time Reported: 01:45
Cad Comments: Complaint of male being inappropriate. Officer responded, no report.

22-M09663 Burglary
Incident Address: 700 blk E 1ST ST
MOSCOW ID 83843
Disposition: ACT
Time Reported: 02:02
Cad Comments: Complaint of female who walked into Rp’s house. Officers responded, no report.

Two weeks before, MPD Press Log 10/30/2022:
22-M09404 Other Law Enforcement Calls
Incident Address: UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO
MOSCOW ID 83843
Disposition: ACT
Time Reported: 16:33
Cad Comments: Request to speak with officer about another student who made Rp uncomfortable. Officer contacted. No report.

22-M09417 Suspicious Person/Circumstance
Incident Address: E 6TH ST; JOHNS ALLEY
MOSCOW ID 83843
Disposition: UTL
Time Reported: 23:33
Cad Comments: Caller reporting that there is a vehicle occupied x3 at least that has been driving around the area shooting airsoft guns

Also a lot of domestic stuff calls, inc this two weeks before on 29th
22-M09358 Civil Calls
Incident Address: 1200 blk WALENTA DR
MOSCOW ID 83843
Disposition: ACT
Time Reported: 18:50
Cad Comments: RP says her ex is kicking her out of the apartment. Would like an officer to respond to make sure things don't get out of hand. Officer responded. No report.

And then some odd ones like these two on the 7th (the language of the second one, wtf. Who is Brian??)
22-M09717 Suspicious Person/Circumstance
Incident Address: 400 blk SPOTSWOOD ST
MOSCOW ID 83843
Disposition: ACT
Time Reported: 17:51
Cad Comments: Rp reporting an egg was left at his door with strange writing on it. No report.

22-M09688 Disorderly Conduct
Incident Address: 300 blk S MAIN ST
MOSCOW ID 83843
Disposition: ACT
Time Reported: 02:05
Cad Comments: Brian is having a fit below his apt in Moscow square. Officers responded, no report.

Maybe Brian is a town local and frequent flyer with LE by acting out on a regular basis? So he could be well known to LE, perhaps have mental health issues.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

That’s because I’d say there is a 99% chance that photo was edited to make it appear to be blood. It didn’t make sense to me, so I went searching for another photo of that wall and found one.

First photo is the original, second one is zoomed in to the area I believe matches the area of the supposed dripping blood and the third is the photo of “dripping blood”
View attachment 382475
View attachment 382476
View attachment 382477

PetDetective, I'm not all that interested in the blood vs not blood issue, but am more interested in the photo that shows patches of snow still on both the balcony and patio. Do you know the date that photo was taken? I see there are a couple of footprints visible in the snow and it made me curious.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

This article posted up thread (Daily Mail so take it how you want ) reported the dog was in the house at the time of the attack and there have been no reports of the dog confronting the killer or being injured during the murders. Original poster IIRC mentioned interesting comments as well in article.

Blueprints show where each Idaho student was found stabbed to death

Unearthed blueprints and layout plans of the off-campus house where four Idaho college students were brutally stabbed to death reveal where each of the friends were found slain earlier this month.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Gina20]

I scanned through some of the Moscow Police logs today, just to have a look what stands out on the week before and the three weekends before the murder. Some interesting ones here:

Exactly a week before, MPD Press Log 11/6/2022:
22-M09659 Unconscious Person
Incident Address: IDAHO AVE; Pi Beta Phi
MOSCOW ID 83843
Disposition:
Time Reported: 01:35
Cad Comments: Complaint of 19-year-old female, not Conscious, Breathing. EMS and Officers responded. No report.

22-M09660 Suspicious Person/Circumstance
Incident Address: 700 blk DEAKIN AVE
MOSCOW ID 83843
Disposition: ACT
Time Reported: 01:45
Cad Comments: Complaint of male being inappropriate. Officer responded, no report.

22-M09663 Burglary
Incident Address: 700 blk E 1ST ST
MOSCOW ID 83843
Disposition: ACT
Time Reported: 02:02
Cad Comments: Complaint of female who walked into Rp’s house. Officers responded, no report.

Two weeks before, MPD Press Log 10/30/2022:
22-M09404 Other Law Enforcement Calls
Incident Address: UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO
MOSCOW ID 83843
Disposition: ACT
Time Reported: 16:33
Cad Comments: Request to speak with officer about another student who made Rp uncomfortable. Officer contacted. No report.

22-M09417 Suspicious Person/Circumstance
Incident Address: E 6TH ST; JOHNS ALLEY
MOSCOW ID 83843
Disposition: UTL
Time Reported: 23:33
Cad Comments: Caller reporting that there is a vehicle occupied x3 at least that has been driving around the area shooting airsoft guns

Also a lot of domestic stuff calls, inc this two weeks before on 29th
22-M09358 Civil Calls
Incident Address: 1200 blk WALENTA DR
MOSCOW ID 83843
Disposition: ACT
Time Reported: 18:50
Cad Comments: RP says her ex is kicking her out of the apartment. Would like an officer to respond to make sure things don't get out of hand. Officer responded. No report.

And then some odd ones like these two on the 7th (the language of the second one, wtf. Who is Brian??)
22-M09717 Suspicious Person/Circumstance
Incident Address: 400 blk SPOTSWOOD ST
MOSCOW ID 83843
Disposition: ACT
Time Reported: 17:51
Cad Comments: Rp reporting an egg was left at his door with strange writing on it. No report.

22-M09688 Disorderly Conduct
Incident Address: 300 blk S MAIN ST
MOSCOW ID 83843
Disposition: ACT
Time Reported: 02:05
Cad Comments: Brian is having a fit below his apt in Moscow square. Officers responded, no report.

There were two incidents on Deakin Ave. in the police report. The area is full of frat houses/ sororities...weird report of a guy walking into a business and taking his shoes off? The egg!

What gets me is the proximity of the murder scene to the Arboretum and Botanical Garden. Also, the Anderson Frontier park is nearby. Any encampments in the arboretum?

Homelessness often hidden in Whitman, Latah counties

While homelessness is a major problem in large West Coast cities, the issue seems to be far less prevalent in Pullman and Moscow.Local law enforcement officials…

dnews.com

 

[seasideForest]

The Daily Mail articled did use word the slasher in the article, freaky...

Daily Mail is allowed on here but imho it's not always totally accurate on the details. In the UK people tend to read other media for accuracy. Daily Mail is kind of tabloid but I remember reading on here that they are allowed for various reasons, like in-depth photo coverage. MOO

See post immediately below this for an example of Daily Mail not being correct!

 

[debbiediablo]

I believe the photo attached is the bedroom X and E were in with the “blood” stain in question being on the outside of the wall to the right of the closet in the photo. I agree that a bed cannot fit here, but wonder if one of the victims ended up against the wall after defending themselves or trying to get up and run from bed after the attack?

The coroner was quoted saying something like this “appears to be blood” - anyone know if this was confirmed/debunked?

Regardless I don’t think this fact is important for solving the case, it’s a nice to know (all IMO).

I think this is not X and E's bedroom with the bloodstains on the outside of the house. It's the other one, next to the bathroom and down a short hall from the living room. This one has adequate room for a bed up against the wall with the bloodstains. Bedroom 4 which is seen in the exterior photo from beyond the slider and patio.