ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 18

[CityKid]

Wait a minute, it sounds like K's dad, in his interview, was saying that he had established a "footprint" behavior pattern that his daughter (victim) typically followed, and that her behavior footprint had changed. He actually stated "behavior of the victims" but I would assume he only knows his daughter's typical behavior. Am I reading this right?

Why would her behavior change right before she was murdered? Because she was being stalked, or became involved in some way with someone who was bad news?

I feel like this is an important piece of information that he divulged.

Or perhaps one of the other victims had changed their "behavior footprint" in recent months, and because of that K had to change her behavior. For example, someone in your home starts using drugs or bringing lots of people you don't know to your home, so you don't leave valuables out in the open.

 

[cottonweaver]

What do you take as meaning?

the standard definition
for example, if I coveted your car, it means it's something of yours which I'd like to possess or take from you

 

[Petunia83]

Images of 1122 King Rd have been removed from Zillow

1122 King Rd, Moscow, ID 83843 | Zillow

1122 King Rd, Moscow ID, is a Single Family home that contains 3120 sq ft.It contains 6 bedrooms and 3 bathrooms. The Zestimate for this Single Family is $490,600, which has increased by $9,952 in the last 30 days.The Rent Zestimate for this Single Family is $3,228/mo, which has increased by...

www.zillow.com

Well. Yep. Sure did have them removed… Can’t say I blame the owner or LE…

HOWEVER, as I mentioned, because I work in the real estate industry, I also know how this stuff works… Those images that are on Zillow, aren’t there because the owner advertised the property there. Zillow, as well as a myriad of other websites advertising real estate sales and rentals (hundreds, sometimes thousands, depending on the location), get all of that information from the local Multiple Listing Service (MLS), which is what Realtors and Property Managers use to list their clients properties, and the TRUE MLS is only accessible by other licensed Real Estate professionals with proper credentials and access. BUT, thankfully for us Realtors, so that we don’t have to spend endless hours re-advertising our listings all over the place, there’s a hand handy syndication button that we can simply press, and that automatically pushes limited listing info to ALL of those sites… (Zillow, Redfin, Trulia, Apts.com, and the like)… SO, just because they are removed from Zillow and a couple of other sites, doesn’t mean they’re no longer available, it just means you have to know where to look…

Here is the photo showing the 1st/2nd floor stairway that was asked about.

If anyone wants the rest of the photos, just let me know and I can upload all of them when I get some time later.

 

[cottonweaver]

Or perhaps one of the other victims had changed their "behavior footprint" in recent months, and because of that K had to change her behavior. For example, someone in your home starts using drugs or bringing lots of people you don't know to your home, so you don't leave valuables out in the open.

it's clearer in @Allabouttrial 's transcript of the interview he gave.

It's a few pages back on this thread.

 

[Sunny Texas]

Was there an interior door on 2nd floor at stairs leading to 1st floor? If so, did killer lock it to prevent 1st floor roommates from interior access to 2nd floor. Also, if there was a door, then perhaps killer did not go to first floor because killer did not assume there were 1-2 alive roommates on the first floor?

You can see from the real estate photos that there is no door there.

 

[cottonweaver]

@Emerald1991 Your wish is my command .

Interview with Kaylee's dad.

1st December.

Reporter - S, first of all, our condolences to you and your family. We're so, so sorry for your loss, Sir. We have kids similar ages and I can't imagine what you're going through. So, I thank you for being here and as I mentioned to you earlier, our goal in talking to you is to keep this story out there, to show the tip line, which we're going to put up on the screen in just a moment. But, I want to get your reaction to this confusion of if it was targeted, not targeted, maybe the people in the house, maybe it was the residence. What can you tell us about that?.

Dad - I don't like it one bit. I know these statements take, like, hours and multiple individuals to review, it's not like this was something said on the side of the street within the first five hours of the case, and these guys are professionals. They sat in a room and this is what they came out with and they keep coming out with statements that create more questions than they answer, and then that creates a pressure and that's why I'm feeling like there's so many people coming and looking for answers and I'm one of them.

Reporter - One of the things that you said last night (at the vigil) about the two of them having fallen asleep in the same bed, that was new information. Is that the case that they were actually in the same bed?.

Dad - To me, it wasn't new. The coroner had shared a bunch of information about... there was some photos.. if you knew the house design, you would have seen that there was a picture of Kaylee's bed and it was made, there was nothing in there. So, it was kind of a process of elimination, if you've been in the home, if you knew the inside information, like, I knew that was my daughters room, so to me it had been out, but I'm sure they're not happy with me saying that. I didn't mean to say something that was supposed to be under wraps.

Reporter - Yes, of course.

Dad - I've told them you gotta work with me. You've got to tell me what to say and what not to say and I'll listen, but sometimes they're scared to give me those advices and I understand.

Reporter - Let me ask you of something that you said when you spoke with Laurence Jones. Do you believe that people on this campus know something, that the rest of us don't know?. Do you think that there was a stalker involved in this case?.

Dad - I don't think it matters what I particularly feel. I just want them to follow the evidence. I think even people who think they don't have information - I know people have been scared to share stuff because of there maybe alcohol or drugs or something in the background. I've tried to work with them to let everybody know that that's not what they're working on. But, I've definitely heard from people that they're scared to submit stuff. It could be a party, it could be anything around that neighbourhood within that time that could help us. And I think that community is going to solve this case, just as much as those officers in that room.

Reporter - You said something about, you know, someone's car could be in a selfie or a video of a person who said that they had an alibi, but the car isn't where it was supposed to be. Tell me about that, what you're thinking when you say that, Sir?.

Dad - I have an IT background, I know Tesla's and some other vehicles have cameras that you don't even have to turn on and are still recording, and there's some chips in there that you can pull data off. I know that's the way the wifi's work. So, this individual could have came into these homes and partied and done things and that data can be captured. I want this guy to be scared, I don't want him to be confident. I want him to be sick of seeing my face and I'm not going nowhere until this guy's off the streets. And the worst thing I want, is another family to go through this.

Reporter - Kaylee's mom said something about being fearful, that he is around, that he's watching all of this, that he could even show up at a funeral service for your daughter or one of these children.

Dad - It's pretty much a fact. Who does something like this and doesn't tune into the media?. Who wouldn't?. It's in his 100% selfish interests. So yes, he is, and we wouldn't want to do some kind of celebration and exclude anyone. So yeah, he could easily be there and that's a sick kind of twisted person that would do this kind of crap.

Reporter - You know, when you talked about getting into the phone, you said we have family passwords and you know we were able to get in there. Is there anything that you can share with us about what you learned there or people she was communicating with?. We know there was a back and forth between she and her on and off boyfriend through the course of the night.

Dad - There was some information, we were able to get that to the police officers. I think it definitely helped them. I know behaviour footprint, afterwards, it did definitely get some more things in the works, but I'm a historical fact person, I can help them know my daughters and Maddie from past, but going forward I'm going to be less and less relevant.

Reporter - Do you believe that your daughter was the target?. Or do you have any reason to think that she was, over someone else or that someone else was?.

Dad - I do have some inkling that there was some behaviour difference. I call them a footprint. When you commit a crime you do different behaviours. I've asked permission to give any of that out and they told me, no, it would not be beneficial. So, I've held back on that and I tried to keep my word.

Reporter - I'm sorry, behaviour of her or someone she knew?.

Dad - Behaviour of the victims.

Reporter - Alright S, I appreciate you sharing this with us and, as I said, the tip line is up right now, it's 208-883-7180. And, as you have said, none of these young people should fear that if they were drinking that night or involved in what most of us would consider pretty typical college behaviour, that that's going to be a problem for them. They need to come forward with their videos, whatever is on their phone, whatever they might have picked up on, in order to continue to work to get a break in this case, which is what we all want. We all want some justice. We want to find out who did this and that you can all find some sort of eventual peace in this. And S, we're praying for all of you. Thank you very much for being here today, Sir.

Dad - Thank you.

bumping

 

[shane13]

the standard definition
for example, if I coveted your car, it means it's something of yours which I'd like to possess or take from you

Thanks.
What is so different about O'Toole's use?

 

[Sunny Texas]

I wonder if when Coroner described crime scene as messy if she meant both all the after party trash along with the bloody scene. The clutter of stuff in the photos is a little astonishing to me. Stains do like like result of the crime committed to me but without forensic test results, it could be other substances. It does not appear in photos that roommates simply came home between 1am and 1:5am and went to bed. Like if party was over at 1am, I highly doubt that the roommates would let the party trash of dirty dishes and trash go uncleaned like in photos.

I'm puzzled by your confidence that partially or fully inebriated college students would clean up after a party at 1-2 a.m. before passing out and sleeping it off.

 

[Friday Fan]

Well. Yep. Sure did have them removed… Can’t say I blame the owner or LE…

HOWEVER, as I mentioned, because I work in the real estate industry, I also know how this stuff works… Those images that are on Zillow, aren’t there because the owner advertised the property there. Zillow, as well as a myriad of other websites advertising real estate sales and rentals (hundreds, sometimes thousands, depending on the location), get all of that information from the local Multiple Listing Service (MLS), which is what Realtors and Property Managers use to list their clients properties, and the TRUE MLS is only accessible by other licensed Real Estate professionals with proper credentials and access. BUT, thankfully for us Realtors, so that we don’t have to spend endless hours re-advertising our listings all over the place, there’s a hand handy syndication button that we can simply press, and that automatically pushes limited listing info to ALL of those sites… (Zillow, Redfin, Trulia, Apts.com, and the like)… SO, just because they are removed from Zillow and a couple of other sites, doesn’t mean they’re no longer available, it just means you have to know where to look…

Here is the photo showing the 1st/2nd floor stairway that was asked about.

If anyone wants the rest of the photos, just let me know and I can upload all of them when I get some time later.

So I doubt if there is a door involving the stairway?
I can't imagine one on the first floor due to space constraints.

 

[cottonweaver]

JMO #3 all the way. Here’s my theory as to why.

They have his DNA but it’s NOT blood. It’s from something else but it can’t prove he was the killer that day. Why? Because he’s known to the victims. He’s been at that house before. Maybe during one of their parties. Maybe he was one of students or people that responded that day when the survivors called for help. There was a number of them that responded to the scene before police. That’s why his DNA being at the house is not enough to convict him. If they had Blood DNA it would be a VERY different story.

This would explain why the search dogs can’t help LE out. I bet the dogs did pickup a trace but the traces led to all the students or people who’ve been in that house before. Again causing me to believe that the killer that day was known to the Victims.

just on the bolded para

afaik, scent dogs can't track unless a perp leaves sufficient scent
maybe he just didn't leave any items of clothing, maybe he wore gloves etc and the time elapse before ToDeath & use of dogs meant any residual scent in the house had already dissipated.

 

[Friday Fan]

I’ve been reading an FBI page about serial killers, it references several interviews.
Even before their first kill they obsess about the fantasy of killing, sometimes the fantasies start in childhood.
Then after they kill, they get a feeling of peace and calm. This is the “cooling off” period between murders.
They don’t experience the stress and worry normal people think would result from committing murder. They don’t feel guilt or shame like someone who just temporarily loses it and kills someone from a “psychotic break”.
Eventually that feeling of calmness goes away and they start obsessing about killing again. They may change their MO in order to not be obvious.
They’re in it for the long term.

Edited to add a MOO because I can’t find the link.

It's like an addiction/obsession etc.....

 

[cottonweaver]

Thanks.
What is so different about O'Toole's use?

sorry maybe we're at cross-wires

I'm just seeing posters say that O Toole said the perp covets the knife

( I haven't watched that O Toole interview for ages)

 

[everybodhi]

I’ve read a lot of material that expounds upon the same. It’s like a massive relief for them afterwards… like they finally scratched the worst witch they’ve ever had… they’re not normal, they don’t feel regret or remorse, they feel peace and calm… but just like you said, eventually, that wanes and they begin to “feel the itch” again… This eventually leads to obsession… And once the obsession kicks in, the experts have said it’s no longer a question of “if”, but “when” the person will kill again.

Something I wonder about these types of people… why does some of them cycle so quickly through that “itch, obsess, scratch itch (kill), relief” process, and others do so much more slowly? For example, some serial killers kill again weeks later, and then for others, it can take years to for them to fully cycle through these phases again. Obviously, the psychopathy and lack of remorse and feeling of great relief after killing is the same among them, but what else goes on in their minds that differentiates how quickly each of them “need” to kill again. I would think if there is some sort of methodology to this, it could prove to be helpful in catching these people first… if they know when to be on the lookout. Does that make sense?

Yes it makes perfect sense but I don’t know the answers.
Honestly, I can’t look too much into this subject because a little bit is so unsettling.
I’m just speculating but despite their similarities which is what I read addressed, they must have all kinds of differences too, as all demographics do.
Some may depend on opportunities, as an example, the wife is not home that night.
Or maybe their desire to kill is just on their own timetable, like a normal persons desire to travel or eat are on their own personal timetables.
I really don’t know.
It’s hard to look into a mind of such depravity, I don’t know how people who work in that field do it without developing PTSD.

 

[Sunny Texas]

BBM

I think that’s an intriguing & potentially important question I’ve not seen answered.

I know someone who was in the house a couple of years back who doesn’t remember one, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t one.

Has anyone seen evidence of one on any of the SM videos? Thanks!

No. Google Photos

 

[shane13]

sorry maybe we're at cross-wires

I'm just seeing posters say that O Toole said the perp covets the knife

( I haven't watched that O Toole interview for ages)

I don't recall it either. You are right as that seems to be incorrect use of word.

 

[Helechawagirl]

very interesting, thanks
do you mean like PoIs or suspects who'd not yet been arrested?

Yes.

 

[cottonweaver]

' Maddie & Kaylee died in the same bed' ( in new clip on msm)


now presented as fact, despite everything we discussed hours ago about a careful reading of Steve's words could simply mean that he has assumed this and does not actually know this for a fact

 

[Sunny Texas]

Wasn’t asking about if there was a ~locked~ door, just if there was a door.

Interior doors separating floors in single residence houses here aren’t unusual, especially in older houses. Shut off the second floor to keep the first floor cooler in the summer & vice versa. They can also help with noise.

I didn’t recall seeing a door separating the first & second floor in the real estate pics but also didn’t recall an angle that would have shown one.

Hence my inquiry. Still curious if any of the SM videos showed whether or not there was one.

Google Photos

photos.google.com

 

[everybodhi]

It's like an addiction/obsession etc.....

Yes, I had not thought of that but it is so much like addiction.

 

[Sunny Texas]

I have no idea. But, I know cases I've followed that have been really viscious, were not just alcohol or pot related. Street drug is the key because even if it's "just" pot, it is being mixed with other drugs. It's whole different world and it's awful.

Very possible. I know a very sweet young man very inexperienced with drugs who had a psychotic break after vaping ONE THC cartridge. Speculation was that it was laced with something else. He didn't survive the experience, so who knows. I did notice that K appeared to be vaping something at the food truck. EDITED to say that I'm not implying K had a psychotic episode but rather that a perp could have or could have somehow drugged any or all of the victims with an unknown substance at some point in the evening.