ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 20

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I definitely think there could be better communication between the two. Obviously SG is eager to learn about the horrific true crime lifestyle he has been thrown into. My god, how awful. A good FBI agent could easily sit with him and give him a quick course on investigation 101. And maybe include him in some way that would be helpful, to him anyways. I just want to give him the biggest hug and take his hand to teach. And that's what LE should be doing. Imo.
I agree. LE can really benefit from SG's passion to solve this crime if they do what you suggest. Right now the relationship appears to be adversarial. SG is not the enemy of LE IMO.

Normally I would think it would be better for a family member to stay out of the media spotlight if it creates controversy. In this particular case, I think LE can & should bring SG "into the fold" so to speak.

Maybe along the lines of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend"?
JMHO
 
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This makes a lot of sense coupled with the idea SG talked about tonight in his interview: that he thinks maybe LE is trying to suppress the case because it hurts the town and college. He also said that “they” won’t let them put reward posters up because “they look bad” and it’s not good for future recruitment.

In his mind, he may have a point. I don’t know how much that city relies on college revenue to survive. Obviously a maniac on the loose who isn’t caught that commits brazen murders running around isn’t the greatest publicity in the city, or, for the city, for that matter.

Oof. Talk about rocks and hard places all over, IMO.
'“they” won’t let them put reward posters up because “they look bad” and it’s not good for future recruitment.'
have you got a link for where he said that please? ( I'm wondering if he's just assuming that's the reason or whether SG is claiming that LE actually told him that. Latter sounds unlikely )

Lots of WSers posted tons of informative stuff on why issuing a reward at this point in the investigation might not be wise ( wiser later, if the case goes cold)


Agree with you on the bit in bold - have thought this has been a factor in the communications from mayor and college hierarchy from the start
 
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IMO, this is not a crime of passion. A killer doesn’t bring his own weapon to an unmediated stabbing spree.

The police are saying its a targeted crime because of the knife. The killer used a large knife. You can't carry a knife like that to the bar with you...where do you put it? The killer is proud of that blade and wanted to try it out. It was the star of the show. This is what he does. Also, maybe no one heard anything because he told the girls to keep quiet or he'll hurt them. One of the girls may have been surprised by him first. He may have even told them to get into the same bed.
 
Anyone here can call me out, I will not be offended, but there is one family here that is talking more, saying more, and more ticked off than the rest… to me, their daughter was the target and they want justice… right? Like, it’s not rocket science?
i don't know about Kaylee being the target but...

was the "lets stop playing games guys i need somebody to step up and be a alpha" Out of frustration and SG feels like he's the only father here that has stepped up? MOO
 
I do not know if this has been already mentioned. Apologises if it was.

Everyone assumed that the attacks were not sexually motivated, as none of the victims was raped. However, all victims are extremelly atrractive: as persons as well as physically. I was thinking whether attack on one of them could have been more prominent in body areas usually associated with sex and SG may have a knowledge of that? This is JMO.
 
I thi
I’m sorry you had to do that as well. It’s not easy hurting people, even though it’s not your fault. :(

And, you’re welcome. I was a victim’s advocate.

I agree with everything you say… LE, whether at fault or not, really needs to repair the relationship and begin building trust with him. And I think he actually has a legitimate grievance with the bad publicity and differing messaging— I think he’s probably correct about this and I can’t imagine how infuriating that would be to deal with. And I really don’t think LE wants it to be that way, either — and that’s maybe why he publicly called out for someone to just “say it like it is” … What I mean by that is say what type of person this killer is and how potentially dangerous he may be regardless if it scares of students or potential students away, it’s more important in his mind to catch him…

I can see how that’s very difficult and frustrating for a family to deal with. That interview made me look it it completely different and 99.9999% of the time I’d have the opinion he needs to really stop talking or he’s really going to hurt the investigation badly, but he may be right: if he stops talking, there won’t be a spotlight there any more and maybe people will still come if the investigation overall gets suppressed a little bit… It makes sense and I believe him. And I believe LE is also doing their best with their hands maybe tied up a bit from political pressure because all their money probably is generated by the college.

I don’t know how to alleviate this current issue but it absolutely needs immediate attention, IMO.

Law Enforcement Communication
The issues with public awareness began on day 1, even after locals reached out for help.
Where is that single calm strong voice that assures everyone?
The parents of these girls and the community must be able to trust that the community is safe, and justice is in the hands of capable strong people who care.

Confidence isn’t coming from the Words they are saying, nor is it coming from the Voice they are using. Too many are reading, not looking the public in the eye, not exuding confidence.

Contrast that to the faces we’ve seen and heard in these cases. To me these men portray a caring confidence and drive to seek justice.
Delphi Indiana, Abby and Libby Doug Carter Indiana State Police Superintendent
Athena Strand, Lane Akin Wise County Sheriff

JMO
 
Check the class rosters.

good idea but.....
will the university pass any rosters to LE?
(Does the university even take rosters?)

Just asking, because this link came up on the last thread but didn't get a lot of attention

Link: 'the school has "specific privacy concerns.'

Link doesn't answer the questions I just asked but is related to the topic of which university rules mean that they cannot pass personal info on their students.
Does anybody know which rule or privacy law this might be?


 
The police are saying its a targeted crime because of the knife. The killer used a large knife. You can't carry a knife like that to the bar with you...where do you put it? The killer is proud of that blade and wanted to try it out. It was the star of the show. This is what he does. Also, maybe no one heard anything because he told the girls to keep quiet or he'll hurt them. One of the girls may have been surprised by him first. He may have even told them to get into the same bed.
I am aware. I’m not sure what this reply means in regards to what I was saying about the Mayor and Kaylee’s dad and possible interference to deflect even worse media attention attributed to the murders.

*I have discussed possible motive, methods, reasons, piquerism, serial killer subtypes, Danny Rollings and he he committed similar murders to this and specifically how he silenced multiple people in a house, the reasons for selecting a knife vs literally any other weapon and what it means and says about the psychology and possible paraphillia of the killer, etc… in all the previous threads.
 
I’m having a hard time deciphering by the picture but now I’m thinking it’s the sliding glass door with the handprint?! I keep revisiting the picture lol

Saw a pic last week, punched in addy and looked at images. One image showed the sliding door (2nd floor) where a female(LE) was inside with flash light looking and red tape was on that door. Imo it’s that window/door.


Jmo
 
'“they” won’t let them put reward posters up because “they look bad” and it’s not good for future recruitment.'
have you got a link for where he said that please? ( I'm wondering if he's just assuming that's the reason or whether they actually told him that.)

Lots of WSers posted tons of informative stuff on why issuing a reward at this point in the investigation might not be wise ( wiser later, if the case goes cold)


Agree with you on the bit in bold - have thought this has been a factor in the communications from mayor and college hierarchy from the start
It’s the FOX interview I personally transcribed from Lawrence Jones last night. They were on live sitting in front of the police station. I transcribed part of the interview verbatim and posted it. The interview itself is almost 10 minutes long and posted a few times in this thread.
 
Sorry if this has been asked already, but can anyone provide any insight on what device this might be and what it’s used for?

Source

Caption: "A member of the Idaho State Police forensics team works at a house in Moscow, Idaho, last Friday. Four University of Idaho students were found dead in the home on Nov. 13. (Ted S. Warren / Special to The Seattle Times)"

Thanks in advance!
It looks like a version of this.

Sheriff unveils new DNA collection tool

“..a new device for collecting DNA evidence at a crime scene: a DNA vacuum

“Essentially, it works just like a carpet cleaner. It sprays the solution down and vacuums up the DNA,” explained Jared Bradley, president of M-Vac Systems Inc.
“It gets down into the nooks and crannies where the DNA might be hiding.”
 
The police are saying its a targeted crime because of the knife. The killer used a large knife. You can't carry a knife like that to the bar with you...where do you put it? The killer is proud of that blade and wanted to try it out. It was the star of the show. This is what he does. Also, maybe no one heard anything because he told the girls to keep quiet or he'll hurt them. One of the girls may have been surprised by him first. He may have even told them to get into the same bed.
I've already done this search last week and you will get results for bar fights that end up in a stabbings. Some have been fatal. Also it's not hard to conceal a knife, not in winter with baggy clothing.

Restricted Knives:

There are no forbidden knives under Idaho law. Some restriction exists for knives with blades exceeding 6 inches in length.

Concealed Carry:

Knives not excluded from the class of deadly weapons are subject to some concealed carry restrictions applicable to, among others, minors, non-citizens, felons, and the mentally ill
 
* In the middle of typing this, I just decided to transcribe the part about “the steps” spoken by SG on the show, so, the exact exchange can be found below. I summarized and quoted some of the interview before they all began talking specifically about that to also give complete context.

(Sorry to quote myself but I just watched the beginning of the interview and now I’m absolutely certain within context, IMO,
SG was talking about the frustration by the lack of communication with him and LE.)

LJ also begins the show on site outside of the Idaho PD, with Kaylee’s parents with him. He asks them about their mounting frustration with LE, and they say they have no doubt LE is doing their best, but, basically feel like they are Kaylee and Maddie’s advocates and alludes to the reasons for no “Wanted” posters because that would discourage prospective students coming for “Rush” to want to stay while (there is an unknown attacker on the loose).

SG says, “It seems like they are suppressing the story, we want to put rewards out and they’re like don’t do that. I get it, your town doesn’t want to have Reward posters posted all over when you come and you do your Rush. You’re not gonna get a lot of students if you see those things. But, this community is not going to heal until this guy is pulled off the streets... He has to be off the streets.”

SG says that LE have put people, “like lawyers that make things happen and they don’t want to say anything because they don’t have the guts to come up and be like alpha and like leaders and say, ‘Hey, we might say something that’s wrong, but we’re going to take that hit.’”

*SG does refer to someone as “He” as he does later on when talking about going up the steps during the quoted part below.

SG says he can’t speak on the other families’ behalf, but, he wants to not be a “glory hound” but to keep the media spotlight on the murders and he taught his kids not to be victims, but to go get things done if they need doing, basically. *IMO he almost openly alludes the deaths and the publication of them are not good for the city as a whole and he implies that’s maybe some of the reason maybe police aren’t talking more [because it hurts the town and the reputation of the college].

LJ tees up the next question (*This is the transcribed direct exchange):

LJ: “I had the opportunity to speak with some of my sources and I have been told there are differences in the way that the victims were killed. Some were more severe than the ‘other’. And this week, we heard ‘the target attack’ walk-back, and reverse it back to being a target attack — what can you tell us about the targeted attack”?

Mom of Kaylee: “Umm, they have told us it that was targeted, and but they told us they can’t tell who. We asked specifically. And they said, ‘We’ll try to get that information to you’ and they got back to us a day or so later and said, ‘We’re sorry, we can’t give you that information’ but, then a day later, we saw on the news that it was not targeted, or they think the whole house was targeted.”

SG: “I’ll cut to the chase, their means of death don’t match.”

LJ: “Maddie’s and Kaylee’s… Cause of death, it does not match based on the autopsy report?”

SG: “They don’t match.”

LJ: “It would indicate one of them may have been targeted?”

SG: “He doesn’t have to go up the steps! Let’s stop playing games! Guys! I need somebody to step up and be an alpha, be somebody to be a leader! Don’t make me do it! I don’t wanna do it! He doesn’t have to go up those steps. They’re mad. Their, their points of damage don’t match. I’m just gonna say it... Wasn’t leaked to me, I earned that. I payed for that funeral. I paid for that. It’s my right! You ain’t takin’ that from me!

Mom: “Calm down.”

SG: “If you don’t wanna say nothing, that’s your bed... But don’t say I’m leakin’ anything, I paid that bill! I sent my daughter to college to get an education, she came back in a box, and I can speak on that.”

***They then begin discussing the 911 call and Kaylee’s parents don’t know about that. They’re concerned that it’s three weeks out and they don’t want it to go cold. They’re talking about raising money for a reward and hire a third party PI.

They ask for forgiveness from LE if the case is not going cold. They talk about Familial DNA, IT, etc…

LJ promises them he won’t go anywhere.

**Edited for clarity

thanks for this, bumping it now
 
I am aware. I’m not sure what this reply means in regards to what I was saying about the Mayor and Kaylee’s dad and possible interference to deflect even worse media attention attributed to the murders.

*I have discussed possible motive, methods, reasons, piquerism, serial killer subtypes, Danny Rollings and he he committed similar murders to this and specifically how he silenced multiple people in a house, the reasons for selecting a knife vs literally any other weapon and what it means and says about the psychology and possible paraphillia of the killer, etc… in all the previous threads.

I was responding to what you said above:
"IMO, this is not a crime of passion. A killer doesn’t bring his own weapon to an unmediated stabbing spree"
 
* In the middle of typing this, I just decided to transcribe the part about “the steps” spoken by SG on the show, so, the exact exchange can be found below. I summarized and quoted some of the interview before they all began talking specifically about that to also give complete context.

(Sorry to quote myself but I just watched the beginning of the interview and now I’m absolutely certain within context, IMO,
SG was talking about the frustration by the lack of communication with him and LE.)

LJ also begins the show on site outside of the Idaho PD, with Kaylee’s parents with him. He asks them about their mounting frustration with LE, and they say they have no doubt LE is doing their best, but, basically feel like they are Kaylee and Maddie’s advocates and alludes to the reasons for no “Wanted” posters because that would discourage prospective students coming for “Rush” to want to stay while (there is an unknown attacker on the loose).

SG says, “It seems like they are suppressing the story, we want to put rewards out and they’re like don’t do that. I get it, your town doesn’t want to have Reward posters posted all over when you come and you do your Rush. You’re not gonna get a lot of students if you see those things. But, this community is not going to heal until this guy is pulled off the streets... He has to be off the streets.”

SG says that LE have put people, “like lawyers that make things happen and they don’t want to say anything because they don’t have the guts to come up and be like alpha and like leaders and say, ‘Hey, we might say something that’s wrong, but we’re going to take that hit.’”

*SG does refer to someone as “He” as he does later on when talking about going up the steps during the quoted part below.

SG says he can’t speak on the other families’ behalf, but, he wants to not be a “glory hound” but to keep the media spotlight on the murders and he taught his kids not to be victims, but to go get things done if they need doing, basically. *IMO he almost openly alludes the deaths and the publication of them are not good for the city as a whole and he implies that’s maybe some of the reason maybe police aren’t talking more [because it hurts the town and the reputation of the college].

LJ tees up the next question (*This is the transcribed direct exchange):

LJ: “I had the opportunity to speak with some of my sources and I have been told there are differences in the way that the victims were killed. Some were more severe than the ‘other’. And this week, we heard ‘the target attack’ walk-back, and reverse it back to being a target attack — what can you tell us about the targeted attack”?

Mom of Kaylee: “Umm, they have told us it that was targeted, and but they told us they can’t tell who. We asked specifically. And they said, ‘We’ll try to get that information to you’ and they got back to us a day or so later and said, ‘We’re sorry, we can’t give you that information’ but, then a day later, we saw on the news that it was not targeted, or they think the whole house was targeted.”

SG: “I’ll cut to the chase, their means of death don’t match.”

LJ: “Maddie’s and Kaylee’s… Cause of death, it does not match based on the autopsy report?”

SG: “They don’t match.”

LJ: “It would indicate one of them may have been targeted?”

SG: “He doesn’t have to go up the steps! Let’s stop playing games! Guys! I need somebody to step up and be an alpha, be somebody to be a leader! Don’t make me do it! I don’t wanna do it! He doesn’t have to go up those steps. They’re mad. Their, their points of damage don’t match. I’m just gonna say it... Wasn’t leaked to me, I earned that. I payed for that funeral. I paid for that. It’s my right! You ain’t takin’ that from me!

Mom: “Calm down.”

SG: “If you don’t wanna say nothing, that’s your bed... But don’t say I’m leakin’ anything, I paid that bill! I sent my daughter to college to get an education, she came back in a box, and I can speak on that.”

***They then begin discussing the 911 call and Kaylee’s parents don’t know about that. They’re concerned that it’s three weeks out and they don’t want it to go cold. They’re talking about raising money for a reward and hire a third party PI.

They ask for forgiveness from LE if the case is not going cold. They talk about Familial DNA, IT, etc…

LJ promises them he won’t go anywhere.

**Edited for clarity

* In the middle of typing this, I just decided to transcribe the part about “the steps” spoken by SG on the show, so, the exact exchange can be found below. I summarized and quoted some of the interview before they all began talking specifically about that to also give complete context.

(Sorry to quote myself but I just watched the beginning of the interview and now I’m absolutely certain within context, IMO,
SG was talking about the frustration by the lack of communication with him and LE.)

LJ also begins the show on site outside of the Idaho PD, with Kaylee’s parents with him. He asks them about their mounting frustration with LE, and they say they have no doubt LE is doing their best, but, basically feel like they are Kaylee and Maddie’s advocates and alludes to the reasons for no “Wanted” posters because that would discourage prospective students coming for “Rush” to want to stay while (there is an unknown attacker on the loose).

SG says, “It seems like they are suppressing the story, we want to put rewards out and they’re like don’t do that. I get it, your town doesn’t want to have Reward posters posted all over when you come and you do your Rush. You’re not gonna get a lot of students if you see those things. But, this community is not going to heal until this guy is pulled off the streets... He has to be off the streets.”

SG says that LE have put people, “like lawyers that make things happen and they don’t want to say anything because they don’t have the guts to come up and be like alpha and like leaders and say, ‘Hey, we might say something that’s wrong, but we’re going to take that hit.’”

*SG does refer to someone as “He” as he does later on when talking about going up the steps during the quoted part below.

SG says he can’t speak on the other families’ behalf, but, he wants to not be a “glory hound” but to keep the media spotlight on the murders and he taught his kids not to be victims, but to go get things done if they need doing, basically. *IMO he almost openly alludes the deaths and the publication of them are not good for the city as a whole and he implies that’s maybe some of the reason maybe police aren’t talking more [because it hurts the town and the reputation of the college].

LJ tees up the next question (*This is the transcribed direct exchange):

LJ: “I had the opportunity to speak with some of my sources and I have been told there are differences in the way that the victims were killed. Some were more severe than the ‘other’. And this week, we heard ‘the target attack’ walk-back, and reverse it back to being a target attack — what can you tell us about the targeted attack”?

Mom of Kaylee: “Umm, they have told us it that was targeted, and but they told us they can’t tell who. We asked specifically. And they said, ‘We’ll try to get that information to you’ and they got back to us a day or so later and said, ‘We’re sorry, we can’t give you that information’ but, then a day later, we saw on the news that it was not targeted, or they think the whole house was targeted.”

SG: “I’ll cut to the chase, their means of death don’t match.”

LJ: “Maddie’s and Kaylee’s… Cause of death, it does not match based on the autopsy report?”

SG: “They don’t match.”

LJ: “It would indicate one of them may have been targeted?”

SG: “He doesn’t have to go up the steps! Let’s stop playing games! Guys! I need somebody to step up and be an alpha, be somebody to be a leader! Don’t make me do it! I don’t wanna do it! He doesn’t have to go up those steps. They’re mad. Their, their points of damage don’t match. I’m just gonna say it... Wasn’t leaked to me, I earned that. I payed for that funeral. I paid for that. It’s my right! You ain’t takin’ that from me!

Mom: “Calm down.”

SG: “If you don’t wanna say nothing, that’s your bed... But don’t say I’m leakin’ anything, I paid that bill! I sent my daughter to college to get an education, she came back in a box, and I can speak on that.”

***They then begin discussing the 911 call and Kaylee’s parents don’t know about that. They’re concerned that it’s three weeks out and they don’t want it to go cold. They’re talking about raising money for a reward and hire a third party PI.

They ask for forgiveness from LE if the case is not going cold. They talk about Familial DNA, IT, etc…

LJ promises them he won’t go anywhere.

**Edited for clarity
“Their means of death don’t match.” Is he saying the severity of the attacks was different—as in targeted? What did he mean by “he didn’t have to go upstairs.”? Because main target was dead already? Were Kaley and Maddie collateral damage? Or something else? Is there perhaps a larger problem than underage drinking that the University is trying to keep quiet? Seems like there’s a big clue that’s being kept quiet. I wonder if the cremation was because of the damage to the bodies? How awful. These lives—and all lives—mattered. I feel for LE and the victims—there are many…the whole community in some ways. JMO ramblings
 
I was responding to what you said above:
"IMO, this is not a crime of passion. A killer doesn’t bring his own weapon to an unmediated stabbing spree"
Ok. It was a snippet of a very long response about everything I said about Kaylee’s Dad’s interview.

From my experience and understanding professionally in LE, a crime of passion is not premeditated.

If a person kills some one “in the heat of passion” they usually pick up the most deadly random object they can find and don’t anticipate killing someone mere seconds before it happens.

This crime was premeditated just by the fact that the murderer brought the weapon to the scene, on purpose although there is more than likely other evidence that supports this theory, obviously.
 


“Their means of death don’t match.” Is he saying the severity of the attacks was different—as in targeted? What did he mean by “he didn’t have to go upstairs.”? Because main target was dead already? Were Kaley and Maddie collateral damage? Or something else? Is there perhaps a larger problem than underage drinking that the University is trying to keep quiet? Seems like there’s a big clue that’s being kept quiet. I wonder if the cremation was because of the damage to the bodies? How awful. These lives—and all lives—mattered. I feel for LE and the victims—there are many…the whole community in some ways. JMO ramblings
We were all super confused earlier, so that’s why I transcribed it. Here’s the full video :)

*He’s criticizing LE decisions and seeming misstatements in his opinion.

 
Thank you for this post. I’m drowning in sadness for Kayless family and the rest of them of course. You speak of being the front person and the deliverer of bad news. Not “sure” of your role but I feel what you are speaking of. I was a in a role where I was wholly unpopular and gave good news and bad. Mostly bad. Certainly not of this magnitude. I just don’t understand why there hasn’t been a support system set up for the families with updates and the like , ensuring the that they are being heard. So much can be levied by this simple remedy. ?? It must be bc they are at wits end and unaccustomed to such crime In their community. Ugh.
And because the parents live out of town or are they all staying around Moscow?
 
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