ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 20

[drmrgrl]

Ok. It was a snippet of a very long response about everything I said about Kaylee’s Dad’s interview.

From my experience and understanding professionally in LE, a crime of passion is not premeditated.

If a person kills some one “in the heat of passion” they usually pick up the most deadly random object they can find and don’t anticipate killing someone mere seconds before it happens.

This crime was premeditated just by the fact that the murderer brought the weapon to the scene, on purpose although there is more than likely other evidence that supports this theory, obviously.

Do we know for sure if the killer brought the knife to the residence? I remember LE stating that they are looking for a large knife? Could the weapon have come from the residence and in turn, been stolen or removed from the premises afterward?

 

[Rumination1]

I have to say my brain has been round and round with this tragedy
To my thinking … these four were killed cos one or two of them had peed someone off. The other two were collateral damage

The “offence” had occurred not immeadiately prior to the murders as the person had to have time to go home dump
Their phone , change into black clothing and get their knife
They then wait n do it at the time they know less likely to fight back

But to kill one then another , then two more is so damn evil. Hope this killer gets their due!

 

[AngTxGal]

I’m not sure what he is trying to say. Odd wording. “Means” to me says “method” but that would take me down a whole new path…coupled with “he didn’t have to go upstairs” Maybe because the object of his attack was on the middle floor? I’m clueless. JMO

This seems to be about Kaylee’s Dad most recent interview, he is obviously becoming more and more frustrated as he is grieving.
He is about my age, my guess is he is using phrases that some do not understand.
I also think some are trying to interpret quotes out of context- bad idea.

Killed using a different method- Seems to me he is saying the wounds on the victims are different, they are not all the same. Does he know that for a fact? I can’t see how he could know that for a fact unless he talked to the forensic pathologist who did the autopsies on all four.

Kaylee’s Dad said “didn’t have to go upstairs” meaning to share that information he is not going to ask anyone’s permission. He follows this with statements that she is his daughter, he sent her to college, she came home in a box and he paid for her funeral. So he feels he has the right to share some info with the public.

JMO

 

[uburoi1]

JMO

snip

Exactly.

 

[SouthAussie]

Bargaining is a stage in the grief process? Anger yes but never heard of the former.

Yes, bargaining is the 3rd stage of grief. It is the natural reaction of "if only ...".


Bargaining takes place within the mind by trying to explain the things that could have done differently or better. “If only we had gotten a second opinion.” “If only we could have taken her to the hospital sooner.” “If only I had treated Aunt Nancy better.” The bargain struck is not one that could actually be kept, but it assists in bringing more control by identifying what could have – or should have – been done to handle the circumstance more effectively.

Third Stage of Grief: Bargaining | eCondolence.com

The third stage of grief, bargaining, is a normal reaction to the vulnerability that comes with loss by attempting to regain control through negotiation to change the outcome or timing.

www.econdolence.com

 

[cottonweaver]

His grief is palpable.

It is hard uto watch. I pray that hewill stay strong, and cause the investigators to examine their consciences.

Are they really doing all they can?

With a million dollar budget, can they do more?

it's worth having a look at the costs of investigations of comparable past cases you know of ( similar high profile, urgency)

I don't think it's a lot of money but I also don't know if the Governor intends that fund to cover post arrest, preparation for prosecution phase

 

[AngTxGal]

Check the class rosters.

“We covet what we see every day.” Hannibal Lecter

I think this quote is critically relevant. The problem is we don‘t know who he saw and where he saw them.
If it is specifically these students- think of ALL of the places they go every day.
If it is the ‘type’ of young women think of ALL the places anyone would see this type.
College campuses are not secure- people work all over campus, people walk in off the streets and sit in the back of class to get warm.

Campus Workers
Construction crews, custodians, dining hall, security, building maintenance, library, tech, help desks, landscaping,

Off Campus Locals
I’m of the opinion the perp was not a student peer, someone older-
What about their jobs, places they frequent, gym, bar, grocery story, walking path to class, jogging path for exercise, where do they take the dog to exercise?

JMO

 

[cottonweaver]

Yes, bargaining is the 3rd stage of grief. It is the natural reaction of "if only ...".


Bargaining takes place within the mind by trying to explain the things that could have done differently or better. “If only we had gotten a second opinion.” “If only we could have taken her to the hospital sooner.” “If only I had treated Aunt Nancy better.” The bargain struck is not one that could actually be kept, but it assists in bringing more control by identifying what could have – or should have – been done to handle the circumstance more effectively.

Third Stage of Grief: Bargaining | eCondolence.com

The third stage of grief, bargaining, is a normal reaction to the vulnerability that comes with loss by attempting to regain control through negotiation to change the outcome or timing.

www.econdolence.com

thanks

so that's very different isn't it?
bargaining re self doubt, self-recrimination, self-blame even when unmerited, personal regret ( what could I have done differently? a back & forth dialogue with your conscience)

I thought the poster - Hopewell - was saying that bargaining with LE to gain access more info was a standard phase of the grief process. ( release X info to me or I will release info Y to the media)

 

[blackbeary]

I feel that the victims families have the right to keep their children's stories in the news. Gabby Petito's parents gave interviews throughout in order to keep her case hot, and sleuth's we're instrumental in finding her. Her father said if the media in other cases is not reporting or keeping up coverage, hold them accountable.

 

[Sandy007]

Oh! Can you please link that interview?

I have a feeling they are closing in.

The comments from the DA the other day saying he wouldn’t be concerned about sending his child on campus but appreciates why other families who don’t know what he knows are….

The comments from KG’s father and the ongoing belief the attack was targeted.

All points to someone local, whether the victims knew them or not, which on paper is far better for LE then a complete stranger from out of town travelling 3 hours to travel and commit the crime then disappearing into the ether.

I’m intrigued by the LE activity at the house the other night. 9 PM on a Saturday? It looked to me like they were playing out a theory/chain of events (On the basis of entering with no forensic gear and the still photos) but then slightly strange as they appear to have left with evidence bags. Whatever the reason for their sudden appearance it was urgent enough they were there at night on a Saturday

I was also thinking of that 9 pm local LE force visit last night.

JMO. They may went to collect more samples of bodily luquids and/or did some tests like using night goggles, for example.

It was discussed little how the killer moved around in darkness albeit assumption is that they were somehow familiar with the interior of the house. Even in my own house on the new moon night i would not be able to see well in the dark. He must have had some night vision tool used also as a mask covering large part of his face, he was too arrogantly confident to walk around the house full of people without taking precautions not to be recognised if confronted by one of the tenants

If LE went to collect more samples, then there is a question what had prompted them to do so on the weekend night 3 weeks along the investigaton?

As they left with large paper bags, one of the reasons they must have went back to the house was to collect more evidence and they needed to do so either a) during night when is dark & to run some rests than had to be done w/o light or b) asap

To me, the reason could be that they quickly eliminated that the killer did not go to the first floor where the surviving girls slept and did not take many samples from that area. Or they needed to take more samples to clarify some mixed/confused forensics results.

One way or another it may be unusual visit, but lets hope it is in line with LE determination to pinpoint the killer and make arrests when ready, hopefully soon

 

[AngTxGal]

Do we know for sure if the killer brought the knife to the residence? I remember LE stating that they are looking for a large knife? Could the weapon have come from the residence and in turn, been stolen or removed from the premises afterward?

Wouldn’t the parents, close friends, and/ or roommates of the residents know if one of them had such a knife? I would guess so.
I’m guessing that was asked early on and that is why they are thinking he brought the knife with him.

JMO

 

[drmrgrl]

Wouldn’t the parents, close friends, and/ or roommates of the residents know if one of them had such a knife? I would guess so.
I’m guessing that was asked early on and that is why they are thinking he brought the knife with him.

JMO

Thanks!

 

[SouthAussie]

thanks

so that's very different isn't it?
bargaining re self doubt, self-recrimination, personal regret ( what could I have done differently?)

I thought the poster was saying that bargaining with LE to gain access more info was a phase of the grief process. ( release X info to me or I will release info Y to the media)

It probably could also translate to "If only they (LE, someone, anyone) would do something different .... ".

I think he is likely trying to achieve the same end though, which is to feel more of a sense of control within himself. Because everything is so out of control for them at the moment.
There is really nothing they can do about anything, having lost their children, not having anyone to blame yet, nowhere to put their anger.

Heartbreaking for them all.

I would think that LE have seen this type of reaction before, and should handle things with grace.

imo

 

[layer]

Bargaining is a stage in the grief process? Anger yes but never heard of the former.

The five stages of grief are denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance. It's generally more internalized than what we associate with bargaining, but it can be outwardly projected as well.

My two cents - making veiled threats to LE of what you might release to the media if LE don't give you the info you want ( which might harm the investigation or prosecution of a perp) is not the way to go with this

So true, but you know the last thing he really wants to do is help the killer get away. It strikes me that we are all kind of going along for the ride with him. We are grieving too, and you can see a lot of the five stages playing out in our own postings.

 

[Honest Abraham]

JUST MY UNWANTED OPINION
You don’t have to call me Mr. President or Mr. Spock but I do know something about loss. That being said, if the parents don’t keep up the pressure and stay on the news, and the case goes 3 more weeks without any more apparent progress, most of you newcomers will lose interest enough to be proactive. That is why it is important for the parents to never stop. This isn’t a stage of grief it’s a brutal mysterious mass murder of their daughter and they need justice. jfif

 

[BrownRice]

I think SG is sleep deprived and fearful and maybe his words are not coming out right-who can blame him? Poor guy.

I agree. He is a phenomenal father. Her entire family loves her so much. They are on autopilot and just trying to keep the story out there.

Can you imagine if it’s 6 mos later and we are still here with no arrest. He’s not going to be able to be on the news daily, because frankly, there will be new crimes /victims. This story has a shelf life that’s expiring soon (for the gen pop). He’s gotta be out there for as long as he’s welcomed by media.

 

[Olivia Reed]

Authorities say they've received thousands of tips regarding 4 slain University of Idaho students | CNN

Authorities investigating the killings of four University of Idaho students who were found stabbed to death last month say they have received thousands of tips from the public.

edition.cnn.com

I'm putting it our there......Ive followed this horrendous crime since the very first thread...
What are the facts.... 4 young people were stabbed to death between 3am and 4am in a multi story home that had an unusual layout. For what ever reason Two students were 'spared'...the coroner witnessed a lot of blood at the crime scene, the weapon a fixed blade knife....yet no sign of break in, the murderer was swift managing to kill two at a time, then he was gone, no blood outside of the house, no one heard a sound, no video footage....nothing.....three weeks later not much else......I am starting to contemplate this being a possible 'hit' ....someone paid some to do this because of the method and the secrecy...

 

[Allabouttrial]

@Knox @SteveP .


(not to be confused with the interview by Brian Entin that airs tonight)

INTERVIEW WITH KAYLEE'S MOM AND DAD

3rd December.

Reporter - Joining me now on set, the parents of Kaylee Gonsalves, C. and S. Thank you all so much for being with me. You guys have been so transparent and strong for the public. C., you called the person that did this, the bogeyman.

Mom - Yeah.

Reporter - What did you mean by that?.

Mom - It's literally like what nightmares are made of. Like when you're a little kid and you think of the bogeyman. That's just how I feel. Like, that's just.. the horrific details of everything. Them just having a good time, going home and going to bed and this happening to them.

Dad - Best friends crawling into bed.

Mom - Just crawling into bed and the bogeyman comes.

Dad - Every girl in America knows what that's like.

Mom - The bogeyman doesn't meet you at McDonald's. I mean, the bogeyman comes and snatches you out of your bedroom.

Reporter - S., we've been talking. I've been talking to folks in the community. You said something that stuck with me. You said, until this person is caught, you can't sleep in your bed.

Dad - No. I can't just lay in my bed and do nothing. That's not the way I raised my family. That's not the way I raised my girls and my son. You don't be a victim. You stand up for yourself and you do everything in your power to make sure people hear you. They're going to hear Kaylee. They're gonna hear Maddie. They're gonna hear these..

Mom - The other 2 as well.

Dad - I'm careful saying anything about them because I need to be careful because I can't speak on somebody else's child. But these two girls, I'm not trying to be a glory hound, but these two girls, I'm going to do what I can do. And we're not being victims. We're going to fight. We're going to figure out how to make sure that we hold everybody, you know, accountable and we keep eyes and attention on this and get this thing resolved.

Reporter - S., you have made it very clear to our audience that you are supportive of law enforcement. You support the investigation, but recently I've been watching and talking with you and you're getting frustrated. What does that frustration come from, Sir?.

Dad - They put certain people between you and the officers that are making things happen. And those people are like lawyers and they don't want to say anything and they don't have the guts to come up and be alpha and be like leaders and say, 'hey, we might say something that's wrong, we're going to take that hit'. So the officers, they looked me straight in their eyes, the lead detective look me in his eyes. I have no doubt he's working as hard as he can, but somebody isn't communicating. There's nothing being released. It seems like they're trying to suppress the story. We want to put rewards out. They're like, 'don't do that'. Yeah, I get it your town doesn't want to have reward posters posted all over when you come and you do, your rush (?). You're not gonna get a lot of students if they see those things, but this community is not gonna heal until this guy's pulled off the streets. It ain't gonna happen. Think it through. It's not gonna happen. He has to be off the streets. We all are working for the same thing.

Reporter - When was the last time you all heard from the police?.

Mom - Thursday.

Dad - Thursday, we looked at phone records. We want to be accurate. We don't want to sell anyone out.

Mom - About 3:00 o'clock on Thursday.

Reporter - And then did you all get an update from the police about the investigation?.

Mom - There was nothing. We have no updates for you.

Dad - There was no update. They needed us to sign a waiver form so that they could investigate something..

Mom - Some mail.

Dad - ..that was mail related. So, we're working with them, we're not selling them out. We love our law support.

Mom - And the FBI, everybody that's here. We just have no information, as family, and it gets tough day after day after day. I mean, everyday you just wake up and think today's the day we're going to hear something and you see these 'oh, there's a break in the case', and it'll just be something stupid.

Dad - A 6th person on the lease that was never there. Stop playing games. This is serious. These are peoples lives and this is the future of this community. There's going to be 10,000, 15,000 kids that come into this community next year, or they don't. So, be serious.

Reporter - I had the opportunity to speak to some of my sources and I've been told that there were differences in the way that the victims were killed. Some were more severe than the other and this week we heard the targeted attack walk back and then reverse it back to him being a targeted attack. What can you tell us about the targeted attack?.

Mom - They have told us that it was targeted but they told us they can't tell us who. We asked specifically and they said 'we'll try to get that information to you' and they got back to us a day or so later and they said 'we're sorry we can't give you that information', but then a day later we saw on the news that it was not targeted, or they think the whole house was targeted, but..

Dad - I'll cut to the chase. Their means of death don't match, they don't.

Reporter - Maddie's and Kaylee's cause of death, it does not match based on the autopsy report?.

Dad - They don't match.

Reporter - Would it indicate that one of them..

Dad - It doesn't have to go up the steps. Let's stop playing games, guys. I need somebody to step up and be an alpha. Be somebody to be a leader. Don't make me do it. I don't wanna do it. It doesn't have to go up those steps. Their points of damage don't match. I'm just going to say it. It wasn't leaked to me, I earned that. I paid for that funeral. I paid for that it's my right. You ain't taking that from me.

Mom - Calm down.

Dad - If you don't want to say nothing, that's your bit, but don't say I'm leaking anything. I paid that bill. Sent my daughter to college to get an education, she came back in a box and I can speak on that.

Reporter - I was also told from sources that are close to the investigation because there was a lot of roommates in there, and this was horrific for those roommates that were there as well.

Mom - Yeah, absolutely.

Reporter - The preservation of this crime scene. Witnesses tell me that it may have well been been preserved because the phone was passed around between one of the fraternity members and the girls. One of them, unfortunately witnessed the death.. the body there. Can you confirm that?.

Mom - We cannot actually. We know nothing about that whole phone call. We've asked and I mean I know that a lot people want to know but that's just not urgent, we're just like, somebody called 911. Somebody was reported unconscious. We don't really know. I mean we've heard so many different things and nothing has been clarified or been told to us at all. I don't know if I personally have asked anything about that. I don't know if you've asked anything about that, but we know that this is getting three weeks in and it's starting to get.. we don't want it to go cold. We're reaching out. I reach out to friends down in California today that have connections that we're hoping to raise some money to get a reward to get a private investigator.

Dad - Third party.

Mom - Third party.

Reporter - Why go the private route. Do you all worry that at the end of this week that this case may be cold?.

Dad - We're scared.

Mom - We're scared, we're scared.

Dad - You tell me you don't want a photo up there with the reward offering information - that kind of sounds like you're trying to like suppress the story. I mean, why do you not need help?. But hey, I could be wrong and you officers, I apologise if I'm wrong, please forgive me, please forgive me. But if you don't have the information - people do know, if they don't. Then you know.. this is a community that is IT based. These guys live a digital footprint like we've never.. all us older people, we don't know how much that digital footprint could be helpful. So, that's what we asked for. I hope like a DNA family lineage - if they could come out here and just start taking.. this town is not that big, we could figure out this. And it might not be him, it might be a family member. We have family all going to the school together, you know, there's cousins, there's aunts, there's uncles. We could find this guy just with volunteers.

Mom - Lineage companies where our..

Dad - Put Idaho on the map.

Reporter - C., S., we're going to stay on this case.

Dad - Thank you.

Mom - Thank you.

Reporter - We're not going anywhere. You guys have been candid with us. We'll keep asking questions. Any resource that we have available. Our audiences is praying for you guys. Thank you all. It was big for you guys to come back to Moscow tonight. I know it took a lot of courage to do it.

Mom - Yeah, it took a lot.

Reporter - I'm hoping we can get some answers for you. Thanks so much for joining me tonight.

 

[shane13]

One possibility re Steve G's unhappiness and wanting someone to be "alpha" [use of "steps"] is that he wants local PD not to cow to FBI as it was a local murder but MPD is passing buck to FBI on what's released.

 

[elmomom]

I tend to agree. And I think he probably feels like telling it will help find the guy faster - someone was after Kaylee, so who was it? not someone was after 4 people. and he's right, narrowing the scope would help.

No, it doesn’t help. We are not going to solve the case. Neither are the G’s. LE will solve it, and they have the info. And releasing information about it helps no one. All it does is exploit the victims, the families and create a maelstrom of TC SM.