ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 21

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No the stairs are there. I circled them in this photo. The different floors are staggered. You can see that on the streetview image.
This is an old floor plan. It does not accurately reflect the layout of the house the night of the murders. The stairs leading up to the third floor are located between a bedroom & the kitchen on the second floor. The stairs leading down to the first floor are along the opposite wall. They couldn’t add stairs going up in the same spot, as the third floor doesn’t extend to that side of the house. Above those stairs is the roof.
 
Sometimes it seems that non-profit is a ruse. NY Times recently did an expose about non-profit hospital in WA state whereby Board members were getting million $ salaries or bonuses and had many corrupt policies re pts.

Let me put it a different way.

UofI is not a non-profit or a not-for-profit corporation. I'm sorry if I implied that.

It is a branch of Idaho government, it is a public institution. Like a fire department or LE.
 
Because many businesses have a particular aesthetic and if one person can post a poster (about a crime or anything else), others will want to do the same. For that reason, some businesses have a bulletin board inside the business (if it's large enough). If it's a food business, seating people at a window (so that they get a view outside) is obscured by anxiety-producing notices of crime.

Further, who polices the posters? What if the posters veer into suggesting a particular sort of person is being looked for - because the family thinks that's right? I can think of more reasons.

Target stores where I live used to have a community bulletin board, many years ago, but it became impossible to police/vet and some of it was revenge-oriented relationship stuff (people are weird).

If the police want to do it, they would likely use wording such as what you suggest - but police often do not want casual tips. People with real information contact the police as a matter of course and are persistent. They already have what, 1200 "leads" from phone calls? All of which will likely be vetted - creating a massive workload for what is likely to be a small payoff.

At any rate, I doubt there's a single person in that region who doesn't know about this crime and everyone knows how to call a hotline.
Thank you.
Your posts are consistent, logical and you speak with the voice of reason'. I appreciate that and wanted to say.
 
Let me put it a different way.

UofI is not a non-profit or a not-for-profit corporation. I'm sorry if I implied that.

It is a branch of Idaho government, it is a public institution. Like a fire department or LE.
And the related laws are all found here for anyone who wants to review:

 
The stairs lead right into the master bedroom on the 3rd floor. Unless you're saying the master bedroom was used as a living area and the girls shared that other bedroom on the same floor
You said 3rd image in the video, which was the stairs leading into the living room on the second floor.

But also looking at the image you provided the stairs on the 3rd floor are between both rooms, there are door cases in the photo, the stairs are opposite the bathroom..

Jmo
 
Hard to keep up so apologies if this was stated, but I saw a number of posts debating what Kaylee's dad means by the damage to the victims (assuming he meant Kaylee and Maddie) don't match. What he says "the points of damage don't match."

My thought immediately went to one of them may have been damaged and killed in a more sexual way.

MOO.
When I read that the “points of damage” didn’t match, it occurred to me that perhaps one of the young ladies — M or K — also suffered abdominal sharp force trauma. The last thread moved fast, so apologies if this has already been discussed, but has pregnancy as a motive been considered? Surely a pregnancy test would be a part of any autopsy for a woman of child-bearing age who is a victim of homicide, right? Wounds like that might also explain the “targeted” controversy. And the need to eliminate potential confidantes. Or perhaps M was the target and K was just a surprise visitor he wasn’t expecting to find in her room that night that he dealt with in real time. And it escalated from there. Admittedly, it’s probably an unlikely scenario. But I think it’s a reasonable conjecture given what (little) we know so far. Perhaps LE has a totally different kind of DNA profile that’s not hitting in the databases. MOO.
 
In essence, a university has a general duty of care at common law: to deliver its educational and pastoral services to the standard of the ordinarily competent institution, and, in carrying out its services and functions, to act reasonably to protect the health, safety and welfare of its students. Accussasions of lack of duty of care could be very harmful to any institution or business.

Saying that, I do not know if the university could be liable, unless it has been proved withiut reasonable doubt, that the adminisrration knew who was the perpetrator and did not cooperate as they may had to with LE.

But it is unlikely that would be the case, sounds hardly to believe.

In civil cases, the burden of proof would be preponderance of the evidence (preponderance of the evidence), not reasonable doubt, and I suspect there will be lawsuits.

In fact, this Stanford case will stir some bigger questions, and I predict (as you've noted) duty, breach, cause and harm will rear its head in the Idaho case as well:

 
Who knows what goes on in the mind of a psychopath?

I've spent a professional lifetime pondering that question and would urge everyone to start with the classic book on what goes on in the mind of serial killers, by Dr Donald Lunde. It's called Murder and Madness.

There's also a chilling book, an autobiography (ghost written) about Jesperson, if anyone has the stomach for it.

This is not, so far, a serial killing, it's a mass murder. But some of the mental issues are the same and some of the diagnoses pondered by psychiatrists are the same.
 
I personally do not think that SG knows a whole lot more information than we do, despite being K's father.

That being said, it is common in cases like these that LE would tactfully release misinformation; and it is my belief/opinion that SG is pinpointing a "suspect" based off of a hunch knowing as such.
 
In civil cases, the burden of proof would be preponderance of the evidence (preponderance of the evidence), not reasonable doubt, and I suspect there will be lawsuits.

In fact, this Stanford case will stir some bigger questions, and I predict (as you've noted) duty, breach, cause and harm will rear its head in the Idaho case as well:


To me, the difference is that it was Stanford employees who (the suit claims) are responsible for this pressure on this student.

AFAIK, there are no allegation that either university property or employees are involved in the Idaho Four murders, whereas in the Stanford case, facilities at Stanford were the sites of the disciplinary proceedings and university managers were involved in it. Lots of differences. I'm guessing the parents in the Stanford case will get a judgment in their favor or settle out of court (and personally believe that to be just).
 
Right, that's why it's important to see the interviews for ourselves and not rely on interpretation. "Points of damage" is consistent with the coroner's report. It just means they were stabbed in different places. I still think that one was possibly stabbed in a more sexual way which is what gave the impression of her being a target. Who that was, we don't know.

MOO.
I transcribed that exact part of the interview because we were discussing it last night. Here’s what SG said about the “means” of Kaylee and Maddie’s being different (SG sort of goes off topic talking about his perceived lack of LE communication):

LJ tees up the next question (*This is the transcribed direct exchange):

LJ: “I had the opportunity to speak with some of my sources and I have been told there are differences in the way that the victims were killed. Some were more severe than the ‘other’. And this week, we heard ‘the target attack’ walk-back, and reverse it back to being a target attack — what can you tell us about the targeted attack”?

Mom of Kaylee: “Umm, they have told us it that was targeted, and but they told us they can’t tell who. We asked specifically. And they said, ‘We’ll try to get that information to you’ and they got back to us a day or so later and said, ‘We’re sorry, we can’t give you that information’ but, then a day later, we saw on the news that it was not targeted, or they think the whole house was targeted.”

SG: “I’ll cut to the chase, their means of death don’t match.”

LJ: “Maddie’s and Kaylee’s… Cause of death, it does not match based on the autopsy report?”

SG: “They don’t match.”

LJ: “It would indicate one of them may have been targeted?”

SG: “He doesn’t have to go up the steps! Let’s stop playing games! Guys! I need somebody to step up and be an alpha, be somebody to be a leader! Don’t make me do it! I don’t wanna do it! He doesn’t have to go up those steps. They’re mad. Their, their points of damage don’t match. I’m just gonna say it... Wasn’t leaked to me, I earned that. I payed for that funeral. I paid for that. It’s my right! You ain’t takin’ that from me!

Mom: “Calm down.”

SG: “If you don’t wanna say nothing, that’s your bed... But don’t say I’m leakin’ anything, I paid that bill! I sent my daughter to college to get an education, she came back in a box, and I can speak on that.”

Here’s the entire interview for complete context and I think it’s important to watch because he basically says the University is involved and is trying to suppress the media coverage and maybe that’s why there is mixed messaging because the University still wants prospective students to enroll and that would be hard if LE was blasting out there is a maniac on the the loose. (I paraphrased that because that’s what I understood also from the interview.)


I’m interested in your thoughts.
 
It seems like they had a Jack in the Box delivery to X, the bag and receipt appear in one of the DM photos, I believe. Possibly by DoorDash.
WOW! I'm not familiar with food delivery and just assumed they picked it up on the way home from the Frat party but duh, they probably just walked home across the field. Oh boy, many possibilities with that!
 
Yeah I was just thinking of this. I know it's all speculation, me just tossing things around in my head. I heard about this murder back when it happened but didn't read about it because I was preparing for Thanksgiving. However today for some reason I snapped awake at 5am to research it. I saw dog mentioned and I know police already said it wasn't connected but the whole Moscow cult thing stuck in my head. Supposedly they own some of the college properties. Does anyone know who owns 2211 king street? I saw on the rental listing "no dogs allowed" but KG had a dog on-site. A landlord would have all keys and codes, yet one of the girls dads changed her locks..maybe because a landlord gave her a creepy vibe?
If this cult is in tight with LE maybe that's why KG dad said many people were eliminated as suspects too quickly?
Does the same landlord also own the property where the skinned dog lived?
A misogynist cult exists in this little town? So many questions! A disgruntled landlord mad about dogs on his property, thinking the girls were lesbians, maybe he was rejected by one of them? Does anyone know who owns the property?

I doubt it's going to be something simple like a frat bro with his nose out of joint because of jealousy.. Don't everyone get mad at me but college kids do tend to be more sheltered than rural kids exposed to hunting throughout life, and maybe cult/extremist influence. I went to college long ago in a U where nearly everyone had sheath knifes and then shotguns in their cars, by college age had their own fishing/ hunting businesses. But my experiences in other states with larger pops, students were less "outdoors oriented", in a hunting direction. Imo. Imo. Imo!!!!
 
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The idea of targeting the house doesn't seem valid to me. What would be the reason to target the house? And lets say someone hates the house for whatever reason, wouldn't they then harm the house (burn it down, etc?).
Maybe what they mean by targeting the house is the neighbors were angry over the noise of frequent parties? Maybe someone who had some thing against Greek organizations and people belonging to them?
 
AFAIK we know nothing about the locks except what was mentioned by Xana’s mother in an interview. Nothing has come from LE.

MOO
And it is VERY clear, and she admits it, that she is out of the information loop. She is, literally, asking the interviewer to give her the information they have, because she doesn't know it.
 
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