ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 23

[Shamrock1]

Comparisons the Lanza residence aren’t helpful IMO. The sole heir was Adam Lanza’s sibling, and he arranged for it to be sold. The sibling could have chosen to reside in it or sell to a different buyer, and he alone was able to make that decision as the sole heir. Newtown Acquires Lanza House

Here, it’s a rental property. The property owner will decide, not the victims’ parents or the town.

It sounds harsh, but it simply isn’t practical to raze every single property that has seen a crime or death. I believe Jeanne Clery’s dorm still stands, for example.

 

[HopeValleyDevil]

No it has not!! LE has said the dog was found in a part if the house that wasn’t part if the crime scene. That is all we know.

It could have been in a crate in the kitchen. Or anywhere on the first floor. Or in a utility room. Or bathroom. We don’t know all the areas of the house that are considered part of the crime scene but aside from those areas the dog could have been found anywhere in the house.

It bothers me that LE releases their statement, someone hypothesizes that means the dog was found in a bedroom and suddenly it’s treated as fact. This is only one example where LE’s words have been bent or just ignored.

We don’t know where the dog was found

We don’t know Xena and Ethan were drunk.

We don’t know the order of attack

We don’t know who was brutilized the most. Perhaps Kaylee’s injuries were worse than M’s but we don’t know how they compare to E and X’s injuries

Though they probably did, we don’t know the surviving roommates tried to text and call the other roommates. They may have just gone upstairs and seen “something”.

We don’t know what or who they saw.

We don’t know Ethan was found in the hall

etc, etc.

I know it’s almost impossible to keep up with these fast moving threads. But reading LE’s daily updates is more than manageable. And that’s the best way to make sure we’re not mis-stating facts.

Police statement below

King Road Homicides | Moscow, ID

www.ci.moscow.id.us

During the search of the home, a dog was found in a room where the crimes had not been committed. Officers did not find any evidence on the dog and there was no indication the animal had entered the crime scene.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I don’t think it’s bad journalism because last night this reporter tweeted that ISP confirmed E & X were “likely” at the frat house between 9pm - 1:45am

https://twitter.com/x/status/1599987089265000449

Ok well that changes up things quite a bit! So roommates did arrive home around the same time more or less as originally stated.

MOO, speculating... I wonder if someone from frat party joined X and E at the house? Put some tunes on, hang out in the room (where survivor roommates heard 'party' and locked doors).

Maybe E or X passed out and other 2 stayed up or some altercation happened in the closed door bedroom? Then when girls get home they wouldn't even know what happened in E and X's room as door locked? Thinking out loud here! JMO

 

[NuttMegg]

Idaho murders: 25 to 40% of students chose not to return to campus, university says - 1010 WCSI

MOSCOW, Idaho - The University of Idaho, reeling from the violent stabbing deaths of four coeds, has estimated that 25 to 40% of its students have not returned to campus, Fox News has learned.Jodi Walker, executive director of communications for the University of Idaho, cited "faculty feedback...

1010wcsi.com

From your link. Will take some manpower, not so sure I believe this.

"Longtime U.S. Marshal Service Commander Lenny DePaul, who is now retired, told Fox News Digital investigators will “absolutely” be analyzing those students who chose not to return for any connection with the quadruple homicide.

“Students that decided not to come back to school, I’m sure they’re looking at all of them and see if there’s any relationship or any conversations they were had via social media, direct messaging, cellular intercepts,” said DePaul, former commander of the U.S. Marshal Service’s New York/New Jersey Regional Fugitive Task Force. “Regardless of how any connection was made, they’re going to look at everybody.”


ETA. Don't some of those actions require search warrants? Direct messaging, cellular intercepts? There are more than 11,000 students, if 25 to 40% of them didn't come back? This is not well thought out.

 

[isabella88]

Comparisons the Lanza residence aren’t helpful IMO. The sole heir was Adam Lanza’s sibling, and he arranged for it to be sold. The sibling could have chosen to reside in it or sell to a different buyer, and he alone was able to make that decision as the sole heir. Newtown Acquires Lanza House

Here, it’s a rental property. The property owner will decide, not the victims’ parents or the town.

It sounds harsh, but it simply isn’t practical to raze every single property that has seen a crime or death. I believe Jeanne Clery’s dorm still stands, for example.

You can reply directly to me. IMO, that house is a hot mess in that it is built into that hill. Sure, some people may get a thrill out of living in a murder house, but I think the community will want it gone. JMO

 

[Deleted member 110058]

I've seen a few comments about lawsuits against the home owner, but I don't understand the reason that there would be lawsuits.

What do you see as the reasons?

I'm not an attorney. But there are almost always lawsuites in these situations. Things like, non working outdoor lighting fixtures, faulty latches on doors, were all of the security cameras in working order. Would all be the most likely reasons.
I do not have any information that that is the case in this situation - these are just examples.
But it's pretty easy to find something to sue for.

 

[Scvanvliet]

Why do you think that X lied about her whereabouts. How could she have?

There is nothing to indicate X lied about anything. People are trying to make a connection between the information LE is requesting for a specific time period compared with a comment her dad made in an interview about when they last spoke. We have no official timeline from a verified source or LE to prove or disprove anything.

 

[YepperBepper]

Physical confidence would help but mental state is more important, IMO. Lizzy Borden is an example. She killed two,

We have no idea if this person made on on-the-spot decision to kill first two, then (being successful) two more,

I would not rule out any suspect based on physical traits.

Thank you. I agree with you (not that that's impressive, lol).

Iirc, Bundy weighed around 140-150 lbs when he pulled off the Chi Omega murders in which he bludgeoned 4 people killing 2...and on the same night/morning he stabbed another young woman.

Rage and psychopathy seems to add quite a bit to expected strength and endurance.

Imho

 

[Deleted member 110058]

From your link. Will take some manpower, not so sure I believe this.

"Longtime U.S. Marshal Service Commander Lenny DePaul, who is now retired, told Fox News Digital investigators will “absolutely” be analyzing those students who chose not to return for any connection with the quadruple homicide.

“Students that decided not to come back to school, I’m sure they’re looking at all of them and see if there’s any relationship or any conversations they were had via social media, direct messaging, cellular intercepts,” said DePaul, former commander of the U.S. Marshal Service’s New York/New Jersey Regional Fugitive Task Force. “Regardless of how any connection was made, they’re going to look at everybody.”


ETA. Don't some of those actions require search warrants? Direct messaging, cellular intercepts? There are more than 11,000 students, if 25 to 40% of them didn't come back? This is not well thought out.

True. That would be pretty insane. Also, they cannot access people's phone records without authorization. That is an odd statement on the part of the Marshall, IMO

 

[Deleted member 110058]

There is nothing to indicate X lied about anything. People are trying to make a connection between the information LE is requesting for a specific time period compared with a comment her dad made in an interview about when they last spoke. We have no official timeline from a verified source or LE to prove or disprove anything.

Thanks. Appreciate you clarifying

 

[HopeValleyDevil]

No it has not!! LE has said the dog was found in a part if the house that wasn’t part if the crime scene. That is all we know.

It could have been in a crate in the kitchen. Or anywhere on the first floor. Or in a utility room. Or bathroom. We don’t know all the areas of the house that are considered part of the crime scene but aside from those areas the dog could have been found anywhere in the house.

It bothers me that LE releases their statement, someone hypothesizes that means the dog was found in a bedroom and suddenly it’s treated as fact. This is only one example where LE’s words have been bent or just ignored.

We don’t know where the dog was found

We don’t know Xena and Ethan were drunk.

We don’t know the order of attack

We don’t know who was brutilized the most. Perhaps Kaylee’s injuries were worse than M’s but we don’t know how they compare to E and X’s injuries

Though they probably did, we don’t know the surviving roommates tried to text and call the other roommates. They may have just gone upstairs and seen “something”.

We don’t know what or who they saw.

We don’t know Ethan was found in the hall

etc, etc.

I know it’s almost impossible to keep up with these fast moving threads. But reading LE’s daily updates is more than manageable. And that’s the best way to make sure we’re not mis-stating facts.

Police statement below

Police statement below

King Road Homicides | Moscow, ID

www.ci.moscow.id.us

During the search of the home, a dog was found in a room where the crimes had not been committed. Officers did not find any evidence on the dog and there was no indication the animal had entered the crime scene.

The dog had been in another room, had not heard disturbances, or bothered to get up -- unless the dog was 'locked' in another room even though some resistance had been met by some of the victims?

Police allege the dog had not entered the crime scene, even though one of the victims had put up resistance, in my opinion only.

The upstairs slider was open where the perpetrator 'may' or may not have used for ingress or egress? IMOO.

Normally a dog would put a perpetrator off -- unless the dog had met the perpetrator prior?

 

[Walela]

Trying to figure out how to clean up the floor and wall that was so saturated with blood, it was leaking out to an exterior wall. I guess take out the drywall, maybe even studs in that area.

Gruesome.

I believe that whatever in the structure the bio hazard comes in contact with is replaced. The flooring is removed and the sub floor and if need be the floor joist. The wall material, any insulation behind the wall, the wall plate and the studs. The cleanup people just take their saws and cut away the contaminated materials and replace with new. Bedding and the like is also removed.

 

[PrairieWind]

You can reply directly to me. IMO, that house is a hot mess in that it is built into that hill. Sure, some people may get a thrill out of living in a murder house, but I think the community will want it gone. JMO

Unless the "community" is going to show up with a lot of money to buy the house, I don't see it going away. Six bedroom house, walking distance to campus, with parking. That place is a gold mine. Tear down, haul away, rebuild (if possible with new regulations) would be $600,000. Plus lost rental income in the mean time. No landlord is just going to throw away a million dollars.

 

[Normamsmiley]

After a month of following this, MOO is as follows - and thus all assumes that K was the primary target:

1. K started romantically talking to someone - hence the break she and J were on.

2. This stays as very quiet and very few if any know about it (for whatever reason)

3. K ends romantic situation with this person either as moving on with her life or plans to get back with J.

4. This person feels humiliated, abandoned, rejected, (insert other bad feelings) and decides to murder her.

If accurate, digital evidence exists somewhere, and it’s a matter of time. I just can’t see what else would anger a man so much for such a personal and violet murder, and with J cleared it’s the other option.

 

[Emerald1328]

I've seen a few comments about lawsuits against the home owner, but I don't understand the reason that there would be lawsuits.

What do you see as the reasons?

I would not be surprised if some, if not all, of the families will sue. I don’t know how successful they would be. Normally for liability insurance to kick in, the policyholder has to be liable for the act. Maybe, as @lmr said, they could allege faulty locks, inadequate lighting, etc, but I’m not sure it would meet the burden of proof needed for liability.

While I mentioned that insurance will likely pay for the clean up whether or not covered, that is under the property portion of the policy. The liability portion of the policy is what responds to lawsuits. Insurance companies don’t agree to pay those if there is not coverage and will usually defend them if they feel they aren’t liable, regardless of the publicity. One reason is, we are talking a lot more money for this type of claim than for the clean up and repairs. The owner of this house has multiple buildings so it is likely insured under a commercial policy. In that case, it wouldn’t be unusual for the limits to be $500,000. And on top of that, they may have an umbrella policy with limits $1 million plus.

All JMO, based on 20+ years handling insurance claims.

 

[SusanDonim]

Ok I'll try again without breaking rules, sorry.

So since i started following this case, there have been so many questions about the dog, Murphy.

Key ones, imo:

• Why was the dog not harmed
• Why did the dog not bark

Both can be answered, imo, by the killer being a dog lover and owner.

 

[NuttMegg]

True. That would be pretty insane. Also, they cannot access people's phone records without authorization. That is an odd statement on the part of the Marshall, IMO

And it's not like the killer is going to be bragging about it on the internet or cell phones. I don't think it's a student anyway, but this is not a rational plan. Getting search warrants and tying up the manpower of enough agents to investigate social media, DM's and cellular intercepts, 3 - 5,000 students.

 

[Data Sleuth]

Ok I'll try again without breaking rules, sorry.

So since i started following this case, there have been so many questions about the dog, Murphy.

Key ones, imo:

• Why was the dog not harmed
• Why did the dog not bark

Both can be answered, imo, by the killer being a dog lover and owner.

JMO
If the dog was in a crate in the empty 3rd floor bedroom with the door closed and was a quiet dog as family described, the killer(s) May have not realized that there was a dog in the house.
If they DiD realize that the dog was in a crate and was quiet maybe they thought the dog would howl if the suspect attempted to terminate the dog.

 

[Deleted member 110058]

There is nothing to indicate X lied about anything. People are trying to make a connection between the information LE is requesting for a specific time period compared with a comment her dad made in an interview about when they last spoke. We have no official timeline from a verified source or LE to prove or disprove anything.

Thanks. Appreciate you clarifying

And it's not like the killer is going to be bragging about it on the internet or cell phones. I don't think it's a student anyway, but this is not a rational plan. Getting search warrants and tying up the manpower of enough agents to investigate social media, DM's and cellular intercepts, 3 - 5,000 students.

Exactly. I could see reviewing records of their Greek brothers and sisters. But you'd need to build a database in order to cross reference info on 3-5K students. I'm guessing that the Police Chief isn't thrilled that the Marshall has now planted that expectation.

 

[NuttMegg]

Thanks. Appreciate you clarifying

Exactly. I could see reviewing records of their Greek brothers and sisters. But you'd need to build a database in order to cross reference info on 3-5K students. I'm guessing that the Police Chief isn't thrilled that the Marshall has now planted that expectation.

No kidding re your last sentence. I was thinking exactly the same.