ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 23

[margarita25]

Marking/ Bringing forward

Hi and Thanks @grayhuze

 

[bulkyyeti696410]

Snipped by me

I feel similar as points in your post, and #2 above could include suspects that had the same classes with one or some of the deceased, the killer could have sat aside watching and hating during classes, even janitors/maintenance people that did work in sororities or University or the King Rd rental. The possibilities are endless. What a daunting task.

Daunting indeed! And it seems to me that in lieu of a murder weapon, a confession, or a surprise DNA match from someone already in a government database that should not of had contact with one or more of the victims, it may be some time before an arrest. Because every individual with attached dna is “reasonable doubt” until LE can prove otherwise.

 

[Hexe]

Ok I'll try again without breaking rules, sorry.

So since i started following this case, there have been so many questions about the dog, Murphy.

Key ones, imo:

• Why was the dog not harmed
• Why did the dog not bark

Both can be answered, imo, by the killer being a dog lover and owner.

There is a good possiblity Murphy got locked/crated in the other room by Kaylee.

 

[Kano]

Possibly because we know so little about their timeline for the evening ….

There are about 4 hours where the Police are trying to establish what happened and where they were, before arriving home …

This was from yesterdays Police Update

Detectives continue investigating what occurred from approximately 9 p.m. on November 12th to 1:45 a.m. on November 13th, when Ethan Chapin and Xana Kernodle were believed to be at the Sigma Chi house on the University of Idaho Campus at 735 Nez Perce Drive. Any interactions, contacts, direction and method of travel, or anything abnormal could add context to what occurred.

I thought the wording of the last part of the statement was interesting … about “context” … but JMO

King Road Homicides | Moscow, ID

www.ci.moscow.id.us

i think its also a little easier to speculate when it comes to the two girls out drinking at the bar vs the seemingly happy couple out together for the night. The couple themselves could have been the targets and the two girls collateral. Hard to speculate without more info from the crime scene itself though.

 

[SLouTh]

Not OP and I don't think that this is very relevant to criminal cases, actually. But, medically speaking, there are two main ways I can think how you might change your DNA with medicine, one is bone marrow transplants (link, article) and the other is gene therapy. Neither changes your whole DNA, both are documented in medical history and rather easy to determine.

It may not affect this case in particular, but it is already affecting cases and will be common in the future .… Forensics need to be working on another “smoking gun” test that is not just DNA to be one step ahead … IMO

Example:

Abirami Chidambaram of the Alaska State Scientific Crime Detection Laboratory in Anchorage gave details about one such case. The case involved a serious sexual assault.

Semen was collected at the crime scene and the semen DNA matched a blood sample from a known criminal in the database. But this person whose blood matched the semen was in jail when the physical attack happened. At the same time the crime sample also matched the DNA profile of another person.

At first all the detectives were confused by this case. With good detective work they found out that both people had the same last names and were brothers.

They discovered that the person who was in jail received bone marrow from his brother several years earlier. So, his blood DNA profile was the same as his brother’s blood DNA profile. But his cheek swab DNA profile was different from his brother’s.

This case shows that it is very important to test both blood and another tissue in a suspect’s body to make sure they show the same DNA profile. So police may have to check both blood and cheek samples to be sure of recognizing a transplant recipient.

Could a bone marrow transplant recipient have two sets of DNA? - The Tech Interactive

www.thetech.org

The original point I was making, was, that I think the Police/FBI don’t necessarily need DNA of the perpetrator to solve this … unless they can manage to find DNA of someone that has never been in the house before ???

I think other evidence will be key to solving this particular case, rather than relying on DNA evidence … but purely my opinion….

Finding the victims’ DNA evidence at the perpetrator's house or car or on the weapon, etc, would be, of course, extremely Useful in solving this crime …

All JMO

 

[CeeMDubs]

Marking/ Bringing forward

Hi and Thanks @grayhuze

The end with the simulated killer going bedroom to bedroom was absolutely chilling…

 

[Past Mortem]

With every day that goes by without any kind of ‘break’ in the case, the more I lean towards the killer being some random psychopath with no real connection to any of the victims aside from spotting one/all/the house itself and deciding that was their target.

If committed by a jilted lover, jealous friend, etc. I would assume it was their first murder, even possibly their first violet act. If that’s the case I just can’t comprehend how they wouldn’t make mistakes and leave a bunch of evidence leading back to them. I know it’s possible and has occurred in other cases, but it was a busy night in an area heavily populated by students…how could they walk away after a crime of that magnitude and not be seen? I disagree with the talk of the perp having potentially showered at the house. That seems like an extremely brazen move unless they were 100% sure no one else was in the house or would come home.

IMO the longer this case goes, the more I lean towards it being a random attack where someone has seen either the tenants or the house in general, entered and exited via the cover of the bushland next to the house before returning to his car and returning home. Zero connection to the victims making it very difficult to track. I think this is a calculated individual who has gone to lengths to cover their tracks but also the fact that it’s a known party house has helped them cover their tracks even more by creating confusion with all the DNA LE has to sift through.

 

[FeelMyHeat]

Things like bone marrow transplants etc can change a persons DNA … A lot of. Drs I know always say if they were called to jury duty, they would really struggle with DNA evidence … they would not be convinced to vote guilty on DNA alone …and would likely disregard it …
it’s just interesting … to me .. anyway …
JMO

Edit to add reference:

Could a bone marrow transplant recipient have two sets of DNA? - The Tech Interactive

www.thetech.org

So, you think the killer is a recovering bone marrow recipient?

 

[Past Mortem]

I also feel like someone who knew the house would’ve entered via the coded door given the apparent reports that the code was shared around and often not even locked (if that’s true of course). Looking at the house, if I try put myself into the mind of someone breaking in, I’d probably try a sliding door first as it seems much easier to get through then a coded locked door (assuming the perp believed the code was active). I’m not sure how those coded doors work but I would THINK if I saw that door that I would only have a few attempts before too many incorrect tries set off an alarm. Maybe that’s just me, but I’d definitely itely try the sliding door first. PLUS you can see what’s on the other side of the glass door, particularly if they had fairy lights and other lighting on inside.

All MOO

 

[Kano]

The end with the simulated killer going bedroom to bedroom was absolutely chilling…

has there been that much video of this house released? Odd for a community frat house to not have a community area. This house was known to be a party house but it was just all bedrooms and kitchens?

 

[Kano]

I also feel like someone who knew the house would’ve entered via the coded door given the apparent reports that the code was shared around and often not even locked (if that’s true of course). Looking at the house, if I try put myself into the mind of someone breaking in, I’d probably try a sliding door first as it seems much easier to get through then a coded locked door (assuming the perp believed the code was active). I’m not sure how those coded doors work but I would THINK if I saw that door that I would only have a few attempts before too many incorrect tries set off an alarm. Maybe that’s just me, but I’d definitely itely try the sliding door first. PLUS you can see what’s on the other side of the glass door, particularly if they had fairy lights and other lighting on inside.

All MOO

fair chance second floor sliding door was often unlocked to let the dog in and out.

 

[SLouTh]

So, you think the killer is a recovering bone marrow recipient?

NO….not at all ……

Just pointing out that DNA evidence is NOT the “be all“ and “end all“ of a crime being solved, …… as it appears to me, (MOO), that a lot of readers here seem to think the Police will have the killer as soon as the DNA from the crime scene is back …

I personally don’t think this case is that easy …

However, I do hope it is solved soon and that justice will be served ….

All IMO

 

[HopeValleyDevil]

My supposition only.

• The residence was the target

• The victims were soft targets

• The perpetrator had checked the residence prior

• The perpetrator is not on any national database hence inside the residence

• The violent act was to incite fear

• The killer has killed before but not compulsively

*Strictly supposition, and in my opinion only

<modsnip>

 

[BrownRice]

A couple of different scenarios:
It was reported KG's sister said the girls took an Uber home. She confirmed they got home safe based on Ring camera video she requested from a neighbor. I'm assuming this is based on a car passing by that matched a description of the car that was reported they got into? Police later said the driver was a private party not an Uber. They said the driver was not a suspect at the time. It's still unclear to me who he was. An unlicensed taxi or was he known to the girls?
According to bar patron JV the girls were drunk and MM had trouble paying with her phone. A dark colored sedan pulled up and told the girls to hurry up. Those statements seem like he knew the girls. If the driver was not known to the girls and they couldn't pay a non Uber driver with their phones he may have gotten angry and demanded money.
Could this murder have been the result of an attempted burglary? Or if the driver was known could he have helped the girls in to the house if they were too drunk? It's in the realm of possibility that if the driver were to become a suspect it might be for a similar scenario.
Also, EC did he live on campus? He and Xk could have went back to ECs dorm room for awhile. Wouldn't they also have been spotted on the neighbors Ring camera?

Slain University of Idaho Student's Sister Is Searching for Her Killer Herself

Alivea Goncalves isn’t waiting for police to find the person responsible for killing her sister, Kaylee Goncalves, and her sister’s friends Madison Mogen, Ethan Chapin and Xana Kernodle.

www.insideedition.com

Idaho Student Killings: Separating Facts From Theories

No arrests have been made, no suspect has been identified, and any motive remains unknown — but that hasn't stopped people from speculating.

www.google.com

I’ve not heard any of this before. My understanding is the girls used a designated driver program thru their sorority. Early on, it was said they used an Uber type service, then the sorority info was released.

 

[Helechawagirl]

LE knows who the target was, they know who was killed first. Killer wouldve transfered blood from one room to the other. Am i right?

They might know the order, but without a motive, I don’t think one being more brutally attacked is conclusive evidence that person was the target.

Could be that was the last person attacked so no fear of being stopped. 3 people as collateral damage? In a stabbing? While they were in bed? In the killer’s mind, there’s a connection— perhaps known only to him. We’ve all seen the generalities where stabbing is personal, usually someone you know, and one person having more wounds is the target…which is why many jumped to that conclusion—along with the mayor. And then the focus turned to Kaylee’s ex. Then we read profiles that said the killer may insert himself into the investigation so we started focusing on guy from the food truck.

For all we know (virtually nothing) it could have been a dare and the last victim was a celebration of mission accomplished. Makes me nauseous to wonder that.

We’re grasping at straws with no way to verify. It’s so frustrating.

JMO

 

[Kittycat40]

If I had not been inside that house I would not know that the bottom floor with a separate entrance is not a separate apartment. Dividing single family homes into apartments is pretty common in college towns.
There’s a trail from the front parking area along the side of the house to the back, which also could make one assume it’s two dwellings.

So are you saying you’ve been in that specific house where the murders occurred?

Also are you saying it’s easy for a person right outside the house to discern that the front part is a lower level part of the house with bedrooms instead of a garage?

 

[Kano]

I’ve not heard any of this before. My understanding is the girls used a designated driver program thru their sorority. Early on, it was said they used an Uber type service, then the sorority info was released.

there could be two services at play. They could have taken an uber to the bar and then picked up at the food truck by the driving service. Since this food truck is a hot spot for the local bar hoppers this service could just randomly pull up there nightly and pick people up. Kinda like how taxis used to wait outside of bars

 

[ReallyRose63]

Maybe nothing. On Google Earth, single car in the carpark directly above the residence. To me, it's entirely possible someone watched the home from this carpark in the weeks before. On the night in question, they came back on foot and entered the residence through the kitchen sliding door after coming from the forested area. This seems all so random, no sexual aspects to the murders, but rather some sort of rage from someone who is a misfit and has been rejected by society. I hope the answers come soon for the families of the victims.

 

[angelatl]

IMO LE trying to retrace their steps that evening tells us nothing as this is just basic police work after a murder.

I believe the events that happened on Friday would be very important
Kaylee wasn't planning on coming back into town until the last minute so in my opinion, if Kaylee's father is correct and she was targeted, then the perp most likely saw her the night prior (or if she posted on social media) and made the plan of attack (may be his last chance since she was leaving). Everyone is so focused on Saturday night but Friday nights events seem equally important.

 

[MsBetsy]

What if the difficulty and time consuming part of this investigation is related to how social these victims were?
For example, let’s say that one victim has defensive wounds. He/She was out earlier in the evening. They gave 50 high fives, 20 hugs, touched a communal toilet handle, passed around phones and pet someones dog at a frat party. Maybe even had intimate relations with their significant other.
Now as a detective, you get back the DNA results from under this victims fingernails. You have 40 (RANDOM # FOR EXAMPLE PURPOSES) foreign subjects’ dna parsed out by your forensics unit. Since we are dealing with a young population, lets say only 3 or 4 of these are even in your forensic database. Another 5-10 have come forward and provided information and allibis have been vetted and verified. This leaves you with two potential avenues for success, which I see as
1) *magically* match DNA with someone whose allibi doesn’t have them come into contact with said victim
2) go through 20-30 allibis one by one
3) string together other evidence on a poi such that they are confident enough to convict the suspect and test that dna against your sample

I am NOT a professional. IMO this may explain, however, the recent LE inquiry into photos and videos at the frat party in determining X&E’s whereabouts. Also may explain why LE is asking for patience.

If there is DNA found under any of the victim's fingernails, then chances are it belongs to the killer. If they find unknown DNA from blood mixed with the victim's blood, they should be able to develop a strong profile of the suspect. If the DNA isn't a match to any potential suspects or to anyone in CODIS, then the investigation could take a long time.

There are many interesting articles describing the whole process that have been linked here and in the media thread.

They will look into all aspects of the victim's relationships with each other and with other people, including cell phone data, social media, and surveillance footage from the night of the crime.

That could take a long time with just one murder victim. I think LE knew from the start this would be a complex case. That's why they said they would not be revealing many details and asked that the public be patient.

And yes, since there are no security cameras at the frat house, I imagine it would take longer to interview everyone who was there and analyze any pictures/videos that were taken. It seems LE still doesn't know if anyone saw E and X leave or the route they took home.

They've had over 6000 tips and hopefully more continue to come in.

There should be a lot of lab work coming back soon. LE said the final autopsy reports would take four to six weeks so maybe by next week we will know more.