ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 23

[General wooster]

With every day that goes by without any kind of ‘break’ in the case, the more I lean towards the killer being some random psychopath with no real connection to any of the victims aside from spotting one/all/the house itself and deciding that was their target.

If committed by a jilted lover, jealous friend, etc. I would assume it was their first murder, even possibly their first violet act. If that’s the case I just can’t comprehend how they wouldn’t make mistakes and leave a bunch of evidence leading back to them. I know it’s possible and has occurred in other cases, but it was a busy night in an area heavily populated by students…how could they walk away after a crime of that magnitude and not be seen? I disagree with the talk of the perp having potentially showered at the house. That seems like an extremely brazen move unless they were 100% sure no one else was in the house or would come home.

IMO the longer this case goes, the more I lean towards it being a random attack where someone has seen either the tenants or the house in general, entered and exited via the cover of the bushland next to the house before returning to his car and returning home. Zero connection to the victims making it very difficult to track. I think this is a calculated individual who has gone to lengths to cover their tracks but also the fact that it’s a known party house has helped them cover their tracks even more by creating confusion with all the DNA LE has to sift through.

I believe that you are correct about the escape route. Lots of seclusion there to be safe getting away. I still believe that the killer lives close by. No need for a car over on Walenta Drive to flee. He/she got home quickly, got rid of the bloody shoes and clothes, cleaned up, and went to work in order to not create attention. This person must have some criminal background, not necessarily murder but some manifestation of anger, brutality, or manipulation.

 

[margarita25]

Instagram links:

ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Died in Apparent Homicide, Moscow, 13 Nov 2022

At this point this doesn't look like a murder-suicide to me.

www.websleuths.com

Did he stare/obsess over their social media?

 

[TIGER0822]

I’ve heard that there wouldn’t necessarily be screams if they were sleeping. I’ve also heard that even if the person is awake, sometimes there just aren’t screams because the person is in shock.

The expectation of screaming makes me think of E and every theory that has him confronting the killer (I disagree with this theory!) — I’d think there would be possible screaming from him or X if that happened. And this would be screaming at the top of your lungs because you’re about to be murdered. Noise like this wouldn’t have been heard in this house before and I think the 1st floor girls would have heard this noise. But they (supposedly) heard nothing. So what are the chances E confronted the killer? Slim to none IMO

Some of the victims had defensive wounds.

 

[The Observer]

Also, a point that I’ve said a few times is how did the killer know who was K & who was M? They were both in M’s room in M’s bed. And they look practically identical already. In the dark, how could the killer tell who was who? So do K’s more brutal injuries really reflect someone who was being targeted?

BBM. Someone who knows them intimately (up close and personal) would know and IMO a female would also know.

Say this is targeted, who would have that kind of hatred/rage? To me it would be someone scorned, rejected, bullied, belittled and so on.

I want to be clear these young adults did not deserve to have their lives taken. Period. However we can't forget they were in a college environment, basically high school without the parents.

 

[Ozoner]

With every day that goes by without any kind of ‘break’ in the case, the more I lean towards the killer being some random psychopath with no real connection to any of the victims aside from spotting one/all/the house itself and deciding that was their target.

If committed by a jilted lover, jealous friend, etc. I would assume it was their first murder, even possibly their first violet act. If that’s the case I just can’t comprehend how they wouldn’t make mistakes and leave a bunch of evidence leading back to them. I know it’s possible and has occurred in other cases, but it was a busy night in an area heavily populated by students…how could they walk away after a crime of that magnitude and not be seen? I disagree with the talk of the perp having potentially showered at the house. That seems like an extremely brazen move unless they were 100% sure no one else was in the house or would come home.

IMO the longer this case goes, the more I lean towards it being a random attack where someone has seen either the tenants or the house in general, entered and exited via the cover of the bushland next to the house before returning to his car and returning home. Zero connection to the victims making it very difficult to track. I think this is a calculated individual who has gone to lengths to cover their tracks but also the fact that it’s a known party house has helped them cover their tracks even more by creating confusion with all the DNA LE has to sift through.

It could be a random psycho who spotted one of the girls that night.

It could also be someone like Jason Downie, who fantasized a relationship with a girl and then snuck into her house and stabbed the girl and both of her parents to death after being rejected.

I tend to lead towards the latter scenario only because of the chatter about KG having a stalker. It really could be either.

In an earlier post, someone alluded to a man with wealthy, influential parents having been cleared very quickly. In a small town, I can see someone like that being cleared too quickly. No one should be cleared based on a alibi supplied by friends and relatives. Close friends and relatives—especially parents—will lie for a suspect, IMO. I would hope LE would know better than to do that, but I don't really trust small-town police departments.

In small towns, in seems like even the cops often want to curry favor with anybody who has money. I can see a suspect from a wealthy family getting a free pass even if LE saw him walking up to the door holding a knife with blood dripping from it. He could say, "I was just slicing tomatoes out in the woods," and LE would reply, "OK, you're cleared. Have a good day."

 

[SLouTh]

If there is DNA found under any of the victim's fingernails, then chances are it belongs to the killer.

When we first heard about Xana fighting back I was quite hopeful about this very scenario … But the more I think about it, the less hopeful I am becoming …

It would make sense to me, given that the crime occurred at a temperature of approx. Minus 3 deg Celsius, The killer would have been wearring long sleeves, gloves, a mask possibly???? long pants etc … and that would reduce the risk of a skin gouge with fingernails ..

I do sincerely hope that the Police can find some sort evidence this way … but do you think a person could manage to push sleeves back and scratch all while being knifed??? I am just not sure ….????

JMO

 

[TIGER0822]

Did the person know and feel that they were insulted/ humiliated/ pushed out by these students. He likely knew the layout of the house. He got access with out forced entry: key? Will the adrenaline rush and ‘outsmarting’ the police embolden him? If I was living in that area, I would be on high alert and taking every precaution. I know some one who killed my neighbor viciously. Her life was a disaster, drunk spousal abuse. His was loved by all. Jealousy drove her.

 

[SLouTh]

Some of the victims had defensive wounds.

By the definition of defensive wounds, that could be knife marks to the backs of the victim’s hands and forearms ….while they raise their arms to protect their face and head ….

A normal type of reaction in a situation where one is being attacked ….

However, there is always hope …that those wounds entailed more …

JMO

 

[margarita25]

The end with the simulated killer going bedroom to bedroom was absolutely chilling…

Indeed.

Watching the video and reflecting, did they have a big party/parties there, and when. That would be a perfect opportunity for someone unknown to them to have an open entry and see the layout, and perhaps who even stays where, from the inside.

I’m remembering my college days, after the clubs would close, buzz would be “party on so and so street”...and everyone would head over there, including older males, locals.

Did they host any of these types of parties? After club parties?

 

[Trino]

I believe that you are correct about the escape route. Lots of seclusion there to be safe getting away. I still believe that the killer lives close by. No need for a car over on Walenta Drive to flee. He/she got home quickly, got rid of the bloody shoes and clothes, cleaned up, and went to work in order to not create attention. This person must have some criminal background, not necessarily murder but some manifestation of anger, brutality, or manipulation.

The killer must have sustained a scratch, a bruise - something - yet LE has no suspect and no stalker suspect. This IMO eliminates a college student because surely someone would have reported him.

Maybe he lives alone, works from home or doesn't work, but I'm leaning toward an outsider who may have immediately moved on Ted Bundy style. No clothes or weapon, which it seems would have been found if he were local. Lots of unnoticed comings and going in a college town. Easy to blend into that scenario.

 

[Perch]

With every day that goes by without any kind of ‘break’ in the case, the more I lean towards the killer being some random psychopath with no real connection to any of the victims aside from spotting one/all/the house itself and deciding that was their target.

If committed by a jilted lover, jealous friend, etc. I would assume it was their first murder, even possibly their first violet act. If that’s the case I just can’t comprehend how they wouldn’t make mistakes and leave a bunch of evidence leading back to them. I know it’s possible and has occurred in other cases, but it was a busy night in an area heavily populated by students…how could they walk away after a crime of that magnitude and not be seen? I disagree with the talk of the perp having potentially showered at the house. That seems like an extremely brazen move unless they were 100% sure no one else was in the house or would come home.

IMO the longer this case goes, the more I lean towards it being a random attack where someone has seen either the tenants or the house in general, entered and exited via the cover of the bushland next to the house before returning to his car and returning home. Zero connection to the victims making it very difficult to track. I think this is a calculated individual who has gone to lengths to cover their tracks but also the fact that it’s a known party house has helped them cover their tracks even more by creating confusion with all the DNA LE has to sift through.

IMO this theory has legs. Someone who is resentful of the lifestyle of college kids. Feels denied that lifestyle somehow. Over time this resentment develops into rage. This person could very well be from out of town or out of state. Picked this location where this crime would be stunningly unexpected. For comparison would not go to LA, or Chicago or New York where extensive video coverage around campuses. Selected a target group of popular students and location of opportunity, carefully planned for escape routes with no cameras, wore protective outer clothing and shoes of some kind, thick gloves and a weapon that would keep hands from sliding while inflicting shocking damage. This person is likely still full of rage, left the state and is still dangerous. More rage and more statements to make. All of this is MOO.

 

[Kano]

IMO this theory has legs. Someone who is resentful of the lifestyle of college kids. Feels denied that lifestyle somehow. Over time this resentment develops into rage. This person could very well be from out of town or out of state. Picked this location where this crime would be stunningly unexpected. For comparison would not go to LA, or Chicago or New York where extensive video coverage around campuses. Selected a target group of popular students and location of opportunity, carefully planned for escape routes with no cameras, wore protective outer clothing and shoes of some kind, thick gloves and a weapon that would keep hands from sliding while inflicting shocking damage. This person is likely still full of rage, left the state and is still dangerous. More rage and more statements to make. All of this is MOO.

Always the old copying 1980s horror movies concept too but odd that they missed an entire floor with two other victims unless those rooms the only ones locked.

 

[drmrgrl]

Without a scream or waking up others on other floors through the process.....

IMO, I don’t think the killer or killers hung around to view the aftermath…..

 

[MsBetsy]

Also, a point that I’ve said a few times is how did the killer know who was K & who was M? They were both in M’s room in M’s bed. And they look practically identical already. In the dark, how could the killer tell who was who? So do K’s more brutal injuries really reflect someone who was being targeted?

I think all the victims were targeted since they were all stabbed multiple times in the chest and upper body. Stabbing someone several times points to intent and premeditation.

LE has not said any victims had more wounds than others. Those with defensive wounds may have had more non fatal injuries. The victims attacked first could have had more wounds than the last two.

LE has not been able to find evidence of a stalker and have said it's possible it was the residence that was targeted as opposed to any one victim being targeted.

If any of them had a stalker, there should be digital evidence or some kind of communication between the victim and stalker. Didn't K's sister say if she had a stalker she would have told her? I would think that would also be the kind of thing you'd tell your friends.

I think it's more likely the suspect had scoped out the house at some point, or at least that night, as opposed to stalking one of the victims but deciding to kill them all just because they were there.

 

[drmrgrl]

Why would you say the victims would be extremely unlikely to meet him under any conditions?

IMO, maybe the killer is an extremist or from another culture

 

[drmrgrl]

Sociopathy is often linked to antisocial personality disorder. Psychopathy has traditionally had some different features, but there's controversy about this and some research shows there actually is not much difference between psychopathy and ASP. Regardless, I don't think it really matters in terms of this killer. Call him a psychopath, a sociopath, or ASP. It's all just guesses. I think only the professionals who will be giving expert psychiatric testimony in the trial need to be bothered with the subtle (if any) differences.

Thanks for the clarification!

 

[philippa26]

By the definition of defensive wounds, that could be knife marks to the backs of the victim’s hands and forearms ….while they raise their arms to protect their face and head ….

A normal type of reaction in a situation where one is being attacked ….

However, there is always hope …that those wounds entailed more …

JMO

I wonder if someone would respond that way instinctively while asleep??

Feels far fetched as one would think you'd wake up if the body realises and responds, but I wonder if that's possible.

 

[SLouTh]

I wonder if someone would respond that way instinctively while asleep??

Feels far fetched as one would think you'd wake up if the body realises and responds, but I wonder if that's possible.

Yes agree… I feel like it is an instinctive move as well …
JMO

 

[drmrgrl]

I would be surprised if the female victims weren't used to weird interactions with creepy guys. They're young attractive girls in a college town. K's "stalker" comments which may have been about the creeper that followed her into the store is probably not even that high on the creeper scale for any of these girls. Should they be looked at? Yes. Should the men in their orbit be looked at? Yes. It could be a guy that came off creepy, it could be a random creeper that was unknown to them, or it could have been a more generalized want to kill a bunch of girls sort. Lots of possibilities. Don't envy LE having to sift through all of that.

I beg to differ on that.IMO, the killer may appear to be very meek or submissive on the outside, probably appears sweet and gentle, but internalizes emotions. A Jekyll and Hyde perhaps- maybe passive aggressive just IMO

 

[Elley Mae]

The killer must have sustained a scratch, a bruise - something - yet LE has no suspect and no stalker suspect. This IMO eliminates a college student because surely someone would have reported him.

Maybe he lives alone, works from home or doesn't work, but I'm leaning toward an outsider who may have immediately moved on Ted Bundy style. No clothes or weapon, which it seems would have been found if he were local. Lots of unnoticed comings and going in a college town. Easy to blend into that scenario.

Idaho murders: 25 to 40% of students chose not to return to campus, university says

Idaho murders: 25 to 40% of students chose not to return to campus, university says

University of Idaho students Ethan Chapin, 20; Kaylee Goncalves, 21; Xana Kernodle, 20; and Madison Mogen, 21, were stabbed several times and killed on Nov. 13.

www.foxnews.com

….

Not saying it is a student but it would be hard to know if it was since lots have not returned.

Jmo