ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 25

[Knitty]

MOD NOTE:

Quick reminder about sources, from the Etiquette & Information link in my signature:

Information stated as fact must be supported by a link to a mainstream media or law enforcement source (or other WS approved source) to substantiate the fact, otherwise the post will be removed, along with all responses to it.

And from the Social Media link:

ALLOWED SOCIAL MEDIA PAGES

Individuals
Victim (missing or murdered person)
Suspect (as officially named by LE)

Public Pages
Mainstream Media (MSM)
Law Enforcement (LE)
Approved group support pages for victims, such as "Help Find..." and "Justice for..." (usually a page run by family)
Legitimate non-profit organizations who provide assistance and support to victims and their families (e.g., Klass Kids, Texas Equusearch).

Please don't post random YT, Twitter, etc. links that have not been approved here.

ETA: COMMENTS on allowed sources are NOT allowed, as they can't be vetted for accuracy.

 

[FlamingoLady]

I really don't think it is. If you watch the body cam video, there are several white cars in the area. Plus, there is no way from the video anyone would be able to figure out the make and year of the vehicle. The footage is just too distant and fuzzy.

The police had reached out to the public requesting any video available from the areas listed in thx4_medic_Babby's post. That seems to be the most likely place to have found the car of interest, since as you've said, the body cam footage is pretty poor quality. I do think it provides invaluable info re: the lighting at the house.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Recently I was looking around my area to find a car detailing shop. I was shocked at the amount of ads that offered middle of the night detailing to clean up ANY substance (blood, chemicals etc). They will meet you anywhere no questions asked, but the fee is quite high. {shudder}

Needless to say, I went with a brick and mortar body shop.

Doubt they'll be in business long. Eventually, they'll be charged with accessory after the fact to something. JMO.

 

[SRWCF]

They clearly said they do not know the owner of the vehicle. If they did know the owner of the vehicle, they could likely locate the vehicle.


If this was the case, they would know who the owner is. The press release stated they DO NOT know who the owner of the vehicle is.

Look guys, there is technology available to LE that can tell them where a vehicle tag has been spotted immediately. They clearly do not have the owner of this vehicle, or the tag as they stated or they would know where this car has been and when. Here is an article about tag scanners from the Washington area: Police: New license plate cameras 'best technology since DNA'

Here is what perps do to avoid scanners: Crooks print real DMV temp tags to cover up crimes. Where’s the oversight?

Why do we have to make this more difficult than it is? People have asked for information from LE for weeks. Why read any more into it? They don't have the vehicle, the owner, the driver, the tag, or the occupants.
If some of us had the tag, we could find the owner. I can almost guarantee they do not have the owner of the vehicle. (IMHO)


My ONLY problem w/ their statement is that they put no limit on where they want this info to come from. Meaning, what states do they want tips of a white elantra. Maybe that was purposeful, I don't know.

Link for source: King Road Homicides | Moscow, ID

I 100% agree with you. Throughout this case I've seen so many people speculate as to why LE releases certain information. Instead of taking LE's statements at face value, so many are trying to twist things around claiming that maybe LE is trying to "trick" or "taunt" the killer. That would be so reckless, not to mention unethical. The community could be a huge help to LE if we would only do what they are asking of us, instead of trying to read some ulterior motive into everything LE says or does.

 

[Quim The Extraordinaire]

Some of us have been here quite a while and much longer than me. We welcome new people and recognize we were all new once and truly enjoy research and discussion. HOWEVER, we don't really enjoy it when new people choose not to read the rules and get our conversations shut down because the thread gets shut down.

PLEASE read the rules. Please take all non-MSM linkable conversations to Reddit or somewhere else, but not here. This is really becoming frustrating.

Page 1 of each thread is your friend. You will find specific instructions for this thread and a link to the RULES!

Now, I will jump off from sounding like a grump.

JMO.
Thank you for the reminder for new posters, @diggndeeperstill.

Websleuths is intentionally different from other TC forums, and we are each responsible for our individual posts and understanding the guidelines.

BTW, I prefer “seasoned veteran” to “grump,” but I may be biased.

JMO.

 

[diggndeeperstill]

Question for those of you familiar with geofence warrants. I myself have never seen one in writing. I would love to if anyone can link one.

If they know this vehicle was on scene at a particular time, which they must if they have tips. I would presume they would do a geofence or tower dump for that time frame/location. Would that be granted? Assuming it would be, and has been requested, am I now to assume that the occupants and/or driver of this Elantra did not have phones? If that is the case, then I would suspect that there is a strong likelihood this is the perp's vehicle whether loaned, stolen, or owned.

For reference: Google Data and Geofence Warrant Process

Police must get warrants before ‘tower dump’ phone searches, SJC rules

In the case the SJC ruled on, police got warrants for seven tower dumps, corresponding to the locations of six robberies and the killing of a store clerk.

www.masslive.com

note: next article is from 2013

How “cell tower dumps” caught the High Country Bandits—and why it matters

Fishing expeditions can pay dividends—but do they need a warrant?

arstechnica.com

 

[OrangeRhyme]

It keeps bothering me about the 2 girls that survived the murders that night? I’m glad they did but there is a reason?
Did these 2 girls might have knew the killers is why they where was spared. Or was it something else?

It's possible they locked their doors at night since they were near the front door and annoyed by guests coming in at after party's etc. The other bedrooms are kinda tucked away.
Maybe they weren't the target.
Maybe the killer entered through the backdoor and went straight up the stairs to his right, then came down and went to other bedroom. Then simply left through the backdoor. Although I know a neighbor said the front door was open which implies the killer left through there.

Lots of stuff don't add up.
If the survivors came home at 1am and didn't call police til 11.56 am. What time did they wake up?

Were they awake in living room and kitchen and not notice anything?

 

[Sandy007]

If this was the case, they would know who the owner is. The press release stated they DO NOT know who the owner of the vehicle is.

I am sorry, but I will have to disagree. I read the press release 5 times and there is no mentioning that LE wants to find out who is the the owner of the car, only its occupants (word occupants used twice & interested who may be driving the car).

Uploading PDF file of PR

Unless we are talking about 2 different press releases, of which I am unaware, I still believe that it may by the case that LE knows who the owner is, however they do not know who was driving the car because the car was reported stolen

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

And isn't it always the dumb criminal that gets pulled over for something silly like a broken tail light, headlights not on, etc., only for police to discover drugs in the car, driver has a weapon or a warrant? I doubt the person(s) who did this would allow themselves to get caught by some simple infraction.

Spot-on!! Crafty criminals made dumb mistakes. The successful fugitive Eric Rudolph was found by a police officer on patrol when he was actively rummaging through a dumpster behind a business in NC. Interesting info via links below.

The Hunt For Eric Rudolph

Over twenty years ago, the biggest manhunt in history took place in Western North Carolina for the Olympic Park and abortion clinic bomber. On July 27,

www.blueridgeoutdoors.com

Into These Hills documentary about the hunt for Eric Rudolph

At age 29, Eric Rudolph was the perpetrator of the Centennial Olympic Park bombing in Atlanta, which occurred on July 27, 1996, during the 1996 Summer Olympics. He called the police, warning about the bomb before it detonated. The blast killed spectator Alice Hawthorne and wounded 111 others...

history.capitolbroadcasting.com

 

[PoppyJune]

When I lived on university campus housing, my car had to be registered with the on campus police department and I got a little special sticker for my windshield. All those that didn’t live on campus, but parked on campus in designated student spots also had to have their cars registered. I’m sure the MPD will be looking into this data and I hope the university sends a blasted email to all that the PD are inquiring about a car that meets this criteria.
This case takes me back at times to Lauren Spierer. Not the death part, but the speculation later of how the potential suspects’ parents may have taken actions to cover their child’s role in the event. That is possible here as the investigation moves forward. This is my opinion of the suspect(s) being college aged. Just another layer to bringing those responsible to justice.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Well, the lights being on then going off would show that someone (killer or victims) was still alive at that time. LE has given times of the deaths occurring starting at around 3am. This bodycam footage is around that time, as well. Probably is nothing, just interesting to see obvious movement in the house.

Sure, but I guess since we have no idea if that's the killer or the housemates, I don't think it makes that much difference, except it's creepy. Also, it was only one light. We have no idea if the other side of the house still had a light on. I don't think it tells us anything about the murders. It's just creepy is all because it may have been the killer.

JMO.

 

[Sandy007]

They clearly said they do not know the owner of the vehicle. If they did know the owner of the vehicle, they could likely locate the vehicle.


If this was the case, they would know who the owner is. The press release stated they DO NOT know who the owner of the vehicle is.

Look guys, there is technology available to LE that can tell them where a vehicle tag has been spotted immediately. They clearly do not have the owner of this vehicle, or the tag as they stated or they would know where this car has been and when. Here is an article about tag scanners from the Washington area: Police: New license plate cameras 'best technology since DNA'

Here is what perps do to avoid scanners: Crooks print real DMV temp tags to cover up crimes. Where’s the oversight?

Why do we have to make this more difficult than it is? People have asked for information from LE for weeks. Why read any more into it? They don't have the vehicle, the owner, the driver, the tag, or the occupants.
If some of us had the tag, we could find the owner. I can almost guarantee they do not have the owner of the vehicle. (IMHO)


My ONLY problem w/ their statement is that they put no limit on where they want this info to come from. Meaning, what states do they want tips of a white elantra. Maybe that was purposeful, I don't know.

Link for source: King Road Homicides | Moscow, ID

You said: ' They clearly said they do not know the owner of the vehicle. If they did know the owner of the vehicle, they could likely locate the vehicle.'

Where they are stating that they do not know who the owner is? Please help me to work it out as it is confusing. Thank you

 

[OrangeRhyme]

Question for those of you familiar with geofence warrants. I myself have never seen one in writing. I would love to if anyone can link one.

If they know this vehicle was on scene at a particular time, which they must if they have tips. I would presume they would do a geofence or tower dump for that time frame/location. Would that be granted? Assuming it would be, and has been requested, am I now to assume that the occupants and/or driver of this Elantra did not have phones? If that is the case, then I would suspect that there is a strong likelihood this is the perp's vehicle whether loaned, stolen, or owned.

For reference: Google Data and Geofence Warrant Process

Police must get warrants before ‘tower dump’ phone searches, SJC rules

In the case the SJC ruled on, police got warrants for seven tower dumps, corresponding to the locations of six robberies and the killing of a store clerk.

www.masslive.com

note: next article is from 2013

How “cell tower dumps” caught the High Country Bandits—and why it matters

Fishing expeditions can pay dividends—but do they need a warrant?

arstechnica.com

I'm assuming the killer either turned off their phone or didn't bring it or used a burner if needed.

I'm assuming a turned off phone can't be tracked but I'm not certain.

 

[Charlot123]

I am an NYC car idiot and can't tell car models apart. Walking to get the paper this morning, I saw four of this car (I now know what the logo looks like), three of them white, in a block and a half. I think this might be tough for the cops to narrow down.

Oh, how much do I miss the East Coast! NYC has great public transportation!

I have to look at the letter to tell what car it is. I know what "sedan" is, or a "truck", and can tell the color, but otherwise, no clue.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

It's possible they locked their doors at night since they were near the front door and annoyed by guests coming in at after party's etc. The other bedrooms are kinda tucked away.
Maybe they weren't the target.
Maybe the killer entered through the backdoor and went straight up the stairs to his right, then came down and went to other bedroom. Then simply left through the backdoor. Although I know a neighbor said the front door was open which implies the killer left through there.

Lots of stuff don't add up.
If the survivors came home at 1am and didn't call police til 11.56 am. What time did they wake up?

Were they awake in living room and kitchen and not notice anything?

There's nothing unusual about college kids coming home at 1 am to sleep til noon on a Sunday, IMO.

 

[diggndeeperstill]

To clear this up- BBM -I believe they are looking for the owner of the vehicle and / or the occupants. People are leaving the part out where it says owner. They clearly do not know who owns this vehicle or its tag number. Please, please send in all tips.


Post in thread 'ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 24'
ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 24

***Moscow Police are Asking for the Community’s Help***

MOSCOW, Idaho – Detectives are interested in speaking with the occupant(s) of a white 2011-2013 Hyundai Elantra, with an unknown license plate. Tips and leads have led investigators to look for additional information about a vehicle being in the immediate area of the King Street residence during the early morning hours of November 13th. Investigators believe the occupant(s) of this vehicle may have critical information to share regarding this case.

If you know of or own a vehicle matching this description, or know of anyone who may have been driving this vehicle on the days preceding or the day of the murders, please forward that information to the Tip Line.

Information can be submitted:

• Tip Line: 208-883-7180
• Email: tipline@ci.moscow.id.us
• Digital Media: fbi.gov/moscowidaho
Your information, whether you believe it is significant or not, might be the piece of the puzzle that helps investigators solve these murders.

The below photos are stock images of a 2011-2013 Hyundai Elantra and are not the actual vehicle.

At this time, no suspect has been identified and only vetted information that does not hinder the investigation will be released to the public. We encourage referencing official releases for accurate information and updated progress.

All Press Releases and information related to this case are available at: King Road Homicides | Moscow, ID

###

View attachment 385885

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid026Su1FBZQAEWxiMP82YDAjz3uTeS84hgPrCCecdadt8WQK7f4HAxQVim5CzLKLFjrl&id=100082550200493&mibextid=qC1gEa

I am sorry, but I will have to disagree. I read the press release 5 times and there is no mentioning that LE wants to find out who is the the owner of the car, only its occupants (word occupants used twice & interested who may be driving the car).

Uploading PDF file of PR

Unless we are talking about 2 different press releases, of which I am unaware, I still believe that it may by the case that LE knows who the owner is, however they do not know who was driving the car because the car was reported stolen

See my bolded part of the quote above. BBM (red for "own")


If you know of or own a vehicle matching this description, or know of anyone who may have been driving this vehicle on the days preceding or the day of the murders, please forward that information to the Tip Line.

 

[diggndeeperstill]

You said: ' They clearly said they do not know the owner of the vehicle. If they did know the owner of the vehicle, they could likely locate the vehicle.'

Where they are stating that they do not know who the owner is? Please help me to work it out as it is confusing. Thank you

If you know of or own a vehicle matching this description, or know of anyone who may have been driving this vehicle on the days preceding or the day of the murders, please forward that information to the Tip Line.

From this press release posted to the facebook page of the City of Moscow Police Dept.
***Moscow Police are Asking for the Community’s Help***
MOSCOW, Idaho – Detectives are interested in speaking with the occupant(s) of a white 2011-2013 Hyundai Elantra, with an unknown license plate. Tips and leads have led investigators to look for additional information about a vehicle being in the immediate area of the King Street residence during the early morning hours of November 13th. Investigators believe the occupant(s) of this vehicle may have critical information to share regarding this case.
If you know of or own a vehicle matching this description, or know of anyone who may have been driving this vehicle on the days preceding or the day of the murders, please forward that information to the Tip Line.
Information can be submitted:
• Tip Line: 208-883-7180
• Email: tipline@ci.moscow.id.us
• Digital Media: fbi.gov/moscowidaho
Your information, whether you believe it is significant or not, might be the piece of the puzzle that helps investigators solve these murders.
The below photos are stock images of a 2011-2013 Hyundai Elantra and are not the actual vehicle.
At this time, no suspect has been identified and only vetted information that does not hinder the investigation will be released to the public. We encourage referencing official releases for accurate information and updated progress.
All Press Releases and information related to this case are available at: https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/1064/King-Street-Homicide

 

[Balthazar]

Agreed. Also note they're looking for driver/passengers from the day of the murder or before the murder. They don't appear interested in anyone who has seen it since. It sounds to me as if they currently have the car, but that it was stolen some time before the murders.

Speculation - if, as it sounds, the perp stole the car several days before the murders, then that might suggest they're not local, or at least the car theft wasn't local. It doesn't seem like someone would steal a car and then proceed to keep driving it around in the area where they stole it.

I agree with these thoughts. The car may well have been found abandoned/dumped, IF LE has it.

 

[OrangeRhyme]

There's nothing unusual about college kids coming home at 1 am to sleep til noon on a Sunday, IMO.

Everyone's different I guess but I normally wake up thirsty and needing a glass of water, that's after drinking though.
We don't know if they were drinking.
Still, it's a long time to sleep. I'd guess they'd wake at 10 if they went to bed at 1 or 2

 

[Sundog]

When I lived on university campus housing, my car had to be registered with the on campus police department and I got a little special sticker for my windshield. All those that didn’t live on campus, but parked on campus in designated student spots also had to have their cars registered. I’m sure the MPD will be looking into this data and I hope the university sends a blasted email to all that the PD are inquiring about a car that meets this criteria.
This case takes me back at times to Lauren Spierer. Not the death part, but the speculation later of how the potential suspects’ parents may have taken actions to cover their child’s role in the event. That is possible here as the investigation moves forward. This is my opinion of the suspect(s) being college aged. Just another layer to bringing those responsible to justice.

I remember the days when campus parking used stickers on your windshield to confirm parking eligibility, then they went to hang-tags, but now many universities are using license plate readers, no sticker or hang tag necessary. So if you use someone else's car, you don't need to remember to take the hang-tag from the mirror. When you pay your parking fees for the semester, you can register two cars, and they will both be in the system for the parking security when they drive through the lots and use their electronic license plate scanners.