ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 26

[Sister Golden Hair]

I live in MST, it's still dark here at 4 am for me too.

Sunrise and sunset times in Moscow, November 2022

Calculations of sunrise and sunset in Moscow – Idaho – USA for November 2022. Generic astronomy calculator to calculate times for sunrise, sunset, moonrise, moonset for many cities, with daylight saving time and time zones taken in account.

www.timeanddate.com

 

[WildWest]

The Pullman-Moscow regional airport is in Washington. The closest FBI office to Moscow, ID is in Spokane, Washington. Both logical reasons for plates not to be from Idaho.

Yes, thanks, I saw that earlier so did not think further on it like the OP did so I thought it was a good catch.

 

[justme101]

The heaviness of the sleeping of the roommates, how well the noise isolation works towards the 1st floor and the fact that people often don't scream when attacked all have absolutely nothing to do with the planning or execution.

Nope.

MOO: I feel like some people give the killer way too much credit and it's kinda yuck. Someone stabbed 4 drunk college kids in their sleep. This does not require that much skill, rather rage and/or psychiatric issues. While getting a college degree might require skills, as might collecting money for a new car at such a young age or getting a good partner/friend to fall asleep next to. I feel like the prep lacked at least some of these skills.

P.S: just this crazy story to share, too! Just to show how a person might be able to behave.

You could say that about any serial killer. My point was this seems more thought out and would suggest training and skill with the weapon and the same planning to not leave dna. Someone with low intelligence could do that much. I wasn't giving him any credit. Just staying facts. Seems like a lot of crimes go wrong and not the way people planned.
IMO He didn't leave a bloody trail to the nearest dumpster where he tossed the murder weapon. The locals are going to need to step up with some tips as LE may not have a lot of physical evidence. If it was that easy he would have been caught by now.

 

[Walela]

I suspect they were not WA LE, but fresh federal agents, coming in from WA.

It's possible that each one of the five were from different places. Each one may have a particular specialty in investigations. Or there could have been four new and one currently assigned to the investigation taking them through the scene.

 

[CrownCowboy1]

Considering the circumstances and what we know I have always been of the opinion that it was two people who committed these murders. The fact that nothing was heard by the surviving roommates or neighbors close by as well as the victims themselves as the crime transpired in the other rooms really stands out to me.

Sure it's possible for one person to do this quick and with the element of surprise to sleeping victims but I just get a feeling that too much would have to go right for the killer for that to happen without anyone being alerted. I think that this was planned and by people that live close by or if they don't live close they frequent the area often. Considering how the crime scene has been described it would leave a lot to luck to not leave enough evidence behind to be caught especially after almost a month.

It's very unlikely it was random in my opinion. It's really anybody's guess as to what a potential motive could be. As has been discussed, nowadays virtually anything can be a motive. The smallest of factors like a brief encounter, resentment from afar, jealousy...you name it.

With all of that said I do think that LE has evidence that is quite significant that they haven't divulged to the public. Whether or not they have a lead or leads as a result of that evidence I can't get a read on but from the looks of things I doubt it as of now.

I have faith that they'll find who did this.

 

[Kano]

Anatomy? Maybe. How to kill someone quickly and efficiently with a knife? Absolutely.

moo.

considering the mess that was made.. I'm not so sure about that. I lean to just brutality

 

[Walela]

The Pullman-Moscow regional airport is in Washington. The closest FBI office to Moscow, ID is in Spokane, Washington. Both logical reasons for plates not to be from Idaho.

Is there any link confirming the plates on either of those vehicles were not from Idaho?

 

[kittythehare]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1601281728915439616

 

[MissNightshade]

Is the NY post an allowed source to provide a link?

Neighbor of University of Idaho murder house heard a scream on night of attack

Inan Harsh, 30, who lives in an apartment building next to the off-campus home in Moscow, said he returned from his job as a cook at around 1:30 a.m. on Nov. 13 and later heard someone yell.

nypost.com

 

[CLGM]

Agree


plus we're likely to soon find out that, actually, LE have a ton of fingerprints and DNA and several PoI's are still in play.
( It's just that the scene is so complex, it takes longer)


JB from Channel WFLA spent c an hour going over that with two forensics professors ( formerly with LE)

Fact it takes so long doesn't necessarily imply that this perp is criminal mastermind
Causation & correlation get confuse

If unplanned (or if the extent of it was unplanned), how, on earth, were they able to escape seemingly with little trace of blood after stabbing four people?? I don't think we ever saw footage of LE taking evidence along pathways nearby where the killer had escaped. I know all we can do is speculate about what evidence LE may or may not have, but how prepared would you have to leave little trace from a scene like that?

 

[Nash2019]

makes it almost impossible to explain then why only one person was reported as 'unconscious' rather than two if in the same room . Agree tho E's mother said same room.

too many unknowns.

Here is something I thought of - he/she must know the area very very well to avoid ring cameras on the walk out , if walked, or even walked to where had parked car, hardly likely to have parked right outside ?

unless unplanned and let in ....okay I think I will stick to just reading now, sleuthing myself makes my head spin too much. keep going good people, I am a fan of reading on here.

By all reports ( and easy to imagine) this scene had to be a blood bath - everywhere the killer went. I imagine the individual left the bloody clothing/shoes in the kitchen. Changed into other attire and left the way they came in - through the sliding door. When the downstairs room mates and/or their guests came up in the morning for coffee etc. and saw the bloody mess they bolted downstairs again to call 911.

 

[10ofRods]

Interestingly, that Calgary murder was planned out and prepped for to a T... except that killer was kinda dumb to use his own vehicle and stood out because the color green possibly. Maybe he thought smarter than a paper trail for a rental and too risky to steal a car.

I think about this in relation to this case as I think it's important to think about... if the Idaho killer used a vehicle these would be the options:

1. Use their own vehicle for convenience and privacy (cleaning afterwards, can store somewhere)
2. Rental car which has a paper trail. Even with fake ID, too much trouble to go through to get fake ID and then there's the costs
3. Steal a car. If someone who doesn't have a criminal past, might screw it up and it's risky as then could get caught stealing the car. If a criminal, still risky to botch big plan for a car theft

I'm going with #1 if killer wasn't on foot/bike.

Also,

4. Borrow a car from a friend or relative (with or without specific permission for the time period it was used)

 

[OrangeRhyme]

Do you think the killer might have had some understanding of human anatomy. So they could, as you say "efficiently and swiftly" do the job?

I think everyone knows the neck is the weakpoint. Just watch Game of Thrones.

Femoral artery in leg is also a weakpoint.

I think the coroner said they suffered multiple stab wounds to upper body and chest area.
So it might've been heart and lungs were punctured.

I can't make head nor tail of it. Such a tragic waste of life. Beautiful young people just starting as adults.

As it approaches a month since the attacks, my confidence of solving it is dropping

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I've been wondering whether the killer was in the house when they went to bed. I know some have suggested that before, but what if he drugged them somehow? That would explain how they were killed in their beds with only limited defensive wounds. That would mean it was someone they knew and trusted. MOO

I was wondering same - one way a killer could be certain to carry out this extent of horror would be if everyone targeted was already heavily sedated. Assume that testing will show if everyone had a common drug in their body but I believe testing has to search for specific substances rather than it just being revealed so that could be difficult.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

If I’m half drunk, fully asleep and on my stomach, all it would take is someone grabbing my hair to lift my head up and severing my carotid artery. I’d be dead in less than a minute. I wouldn’t stand a chance and would never know what hit me. I’d basically bleed out into the mattress.

Fwiw, I think this crime was swift and efficient.

moo.

I looked this up in an earlier thread (the FBI would be horrified by my search history) and it's not quite as easy as that. Here is one very graphic link, but be warned:

Homicidal Cut Throat: The Forensic Perspective - PMC

The forensic pathologists have a challenging task during the ascertainment of the manner of death in cut throat injuries when presented with no proper history or witnesses. We report a rare homicide, where a person was killed by the father of his ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

because it is ncbi, I'm assuming it's okay to post it here, but do be warned. There are photos and details. You can also google Fairbairn throat cutting and get to a lot of how to from there. you can also google neck tendons and ligament structure and get a pretty good idea. here's more info;

The Dangers from Knife and Weapon Slashing

On Monday morning, April 18, 2018, an 8 year-old boy left home with a kitchen knife and walked into his central Minnesota elementary school. Minutes later, he slashed three fellow pupils, ages 8, 9 and 13 years.

www.securitymagazine.com

lots of ways to disable quickly in there. Also, carotid is 1.5 inches in, so using that as a guide...

 

[Kano]

I think everyone knows the neck is the weakpoint. Just watch Game of Thrones.

Femoral artery in leg is also a weakpoint.

I think the coroner said they suffered multiple stab wounds to upper body and chest area.
So it might've been heart and lungs were punctured.

I can't make head nor tail of it. Such a tragic waste of life. Beautiful young people just starting as adults.

As it approaches a month since the attacks, my confidence of solving it is dropping

you know how Americans kinda picture the tough fight in war coming out muddy and bloody? The Samurai didnt think that. To the Samurai if you could wear white and come out of combat looking perfect you were considered a tough guy because that meant you could fight and cut and knew the ways blood would spray and could keep clean in the process. Just something to consider when we think about all of this.

 

[accordn2me]

Initially, the blood on the knife belongs to the first victim, then to first and second victims, then first-second-third and finally all of them. Additional blood found in the victim's wounds most likely would be the killer's unless someone else has been injured by that knife prior to the murders...human or animal. It will also show when the killer was injured. My daughter has a PhD in biomedical engineering, and she has worked her entire career exclusively with RNA and DNA. She tells me the process of making these determinations is time-consuming and must be perfect... but it's absolutely do-able although going to ancestral DNA gets more complicated and time-consuming which is partly why this will likely take a long time. But it does work. See Michelle Martinko Murder 1979. The killer was arrested exactly 39 years later (and subsequently convicted) on DNA evidence like I'm describing. He lived about 20 miles from us and was highly thought of in the community. Similar to the the Delphi suspect.

More speculation…
If I had to guess the most efficient way to kill two people sleeping in the same bed, I would say the stabbing would be V1, V2, V1, V2 until the victim was dead. Then go to the next bedroom and stab V3, V4, V3, V4 until they are dead. The longer it takes to die, the more times you get stabbed.

I’m not considering any cuts to the throats…only stabbing the torso.

I believe more wounds in that scenario only indicates that particular victim took longer to succumb to the attack.

In the unrelated (according to current evidence) attack on the Oregon couple, the wife survived 19 stabs! I don’t know how many times the husband was stabbed.

Edit to add link:

Masked Intruder Still at Large After Stabbing Ore. Woman 19 Times, Killing Husband Who Tried to Protect Her

Travis and Jamilyn Juetten were attacked their home in rural Marion County, Ore., on Aug. 13

people.com

 

[10ofRods]

FBI has offices in Boise and Pocatello Idaho.

Yakima FBI office is about 3 hours closer to Moscow than Boise.

Yakima FBI office is about 6 hours closer to Moscow than Pocatello.

And Spokane has a large office that is closer to Moscow than Yakima. While it could be either Yakima or Spokane, there are more agents with wider ranges of expertise in Spokane. IMO.

Ergo, there are two Washington FBI offices closer to Moscow, Idaho than are Boise or Pocatello.

 

[layer]

This perpetrator who killed four isn't in custody (rumors aside) - so my opinion is there is obviously is still a risk.

Kids are unfortunately used to living in fear now with the school shootings and whatnot, feeling safe is a thing of the past.

People were not safe before this act. This isn't the only killer out there; these aren't the first killings, and won't be the last. Long after this killer has been captured, there will be plenty of others out there, some even "inspired" by these killings.

Feeling safe and being safe are two different things. I think the less safe you feel, the safer you probably are, because you are being more cautious. Lock your dang doors. Put up curtains and blinds. Maintain a level of sobriety. Be aware of your surroundings.

It stinks to have to live this way, but this is the world we live in. It doesn't matter whether or not you believe in lightning, it will still kill you. Don't make yourself the next "target."

JMHO

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

By all reports ( and easy to imagine) this scene had to be a blood bath - everywhere the killer went. I imagine the individual left the bloody clothing/shoes in the kitchen. Changed into other attire and left the way they came in - through the sliding door. When the downstairs room mates and/or their guests came up in the morning for coffee etc. and saw the bloody mess they bolted downstairs again to call 911.

Maybe such a psychopath even went so far as to take a shower and change into clean clothes belonging to the victims and put their own clothes in a plastic bag to dispose of somewhere? If they assumed everyone in the household was dead and no-one would discover them for some time they might not have been in a hurry.